As far as meta for Falcon's are we overlooking the obvious? It seems missiles and torpedoes are pretty well suited to taking down falcons with good burst damage. But, getting an ordnance shot at a phantom is pretty good too (if you can), assuming you have at least 4 dice.

4 dice seems to be the sweet spot for attacks against agility 1 and agility 4. Against falcons it can punch damage through the evades/3-PO and 4 red dice is weighted favourably versus 4 green dice. Also tagging a damage on a phantom with an assault missile is hilarious.

Seems like the Z-95 assault missile swarm is pretty good against the field (well against everything but itself). Maybe there is an outmaneuver based ordnance list out there too. Should people be bringing homing missiles?

HLC's are also a good option versus both phantom's (theoretically) and falcons. Looking forward to a B-wing with HLC, FCS, and Dash crew (no long range or asteroid bonuses), I'll take 4 red versus 4 green anyway of the week.

I think the meta might need to push towards heavy hitting shots, more quality, than quantity of shots. Jan plus VI (PS10) and Ion Turret seems like a good start for any rebel list, but at 31 points it's pricey.

I think hlc is an excellent idea. Theorist said the same on tc.

It's been a while sense we've done any squad reviews. So here's the Challenge to the community. Lets see your counter to both the Phantom and the Falcon. Post you squad and tell us why you think it will work.

So we have a few squads posted, I was hoping to get a few more for our next podcast.

Garven-R2D6 with VI, Shield Upgrade

Kyle-Recon,Blaster,Moldy Crow,VI, Shield Upgrade

Dutch-Ion, Hull upgrade

99 points.

My favorite list I feel comfortable flying it against anything.

Garven-R2D6 with VI, Shield Upgrade

Kyle-Recon,Blaster,Moldy Crow,VI, Shield Upgrade

Dutch-Ion, Hull upgrade

99 points.

My favorite list I feel comfortable flying it against anything.

I guess I see 2 shield upgrades, 1 hull upgrade, and 99 points and think that for 100 you could make all of that a bandit. But I guess that's just me.

Garven-R2D6 with VI, Shield Upgrade

Kyle-Recon,Blaster,Moldy Crow,VI, Shield Upgrade

Dutch-Ion, Hull upgrade

99 points.

My favorite list I feel comfortable flying it against anything.

I guess I see 2 shield upgrades, 1 hull upgrade, and 99 points and think that for 100 you could make all of that a bandit. But I guess that's just me.

I'll try that also. I have terrible luck with z95s but I could use him as a blocker.

Garven-R2D6 with VI, Shield Upgrade

Kyle-Recon,Blaster,Moldy Crow,VI, Shield Upgrade

Dutch-Ion, Hull upgrade

99 points.

My favorite list I feel comfortable flying it against anything.

I guess I see 2 shield upgrades, 1 hull upgrade, and 99 points and think that for 100 you could make all of that a bandit. But I guess that's just me.

Related to your interview on the radio: lane control against ACD Phantoms is going to be very important. But it's quite difficult with 4 ships, let alone 3. The 8 TIE Swarm that won Nationals in France took down some Phantom squads by repeatedly clogging up the decloak positions.

So, yes, squeezing in a bandit is always a good thing. When in doubt, always get more ships!

I think we ought to bring you in at some point to talk about the trends in the various waves. I'll think on some questions I might want to know with those results.

Sounds like fun! Evil Ed also invited me for an interview onto his Nova Squadron radio show, hopefully will be recording next week. I'm a big fan of both Nova and Scum and Villainy.

I can't wait to talk about all of that data and why in the world you decided to do this data mining. We are all grateful, but you have to have a gamer headache after all of that. lol

Ya. Get MJ on. When I started collecting results it was a simple meta tracker but he's taken it to the next level and then some.

Great as usual. Wish ya'll were closer... Sure would be fun to talk and tangle with you guys.

That would be fun. Worlds maybe?

Working up a list...have ideas.

My brain is going 2 ways: Firespray and defender... I really want to unload an outmaneuver backed cluster missile with Vessery vs. a falcon. Backed by another ordnance packing gamma it really should do the trick... Question is for one point less and less set up will proton rockets hurt just as bad?

Just a few points shy of brilliance here I'm telling you!

The phantom cares a lot about stress which makes me like a kath loaded but te falcon really doesn't care. Ion likewise distrusts the phantom but is pretty useless vs. the falcon when flying imperials. So what does the falcon hate? Lots of shots. Lots. And how do you pack Ion/stress as an imperial with lots of ships or ordnance?

To get the phantom:

Need to corral the decloak options to make it predictable

Need to either shoot before the phantom or have enough attack to pierce agi 4

Need to be able to get arcs for shot (either lots of ships or move after phantom)

Stress before ACD or Stress and ion in a turn (stress alone doesn't work unless it's 2)

To get Falcon:

Ignore Falcon's high accuracy shots with hitpoints.

Either fire lots of red dice at once (missiles) or lots of little shots... either way throw lots of dice at it.

Make sure you can focus it quickly enough before it gets behind you.

My current list:

Colonel Vessery w/ Outmaneuver & HLC

OGP w/ Sensor Jammer, Weapons Engineer & ST-321

Academy Pilot x2

For general setups, I have the shuttle hug one side of the board with the two TIEs on one of his flanks. Vessery usually sets up in the middle, angled to get him a straight shot through the asteroids to meet the enemy at the flank the same time the rest of my ships do. If my opponent goes after Vessery, they get hit by the shuttle and two TIEs. The TIEs try to block and take range 1 shots. Vessery tries to stay at range 2-3 as much as possible.

The combination of Weapons Engineer & ST-321 let's the shuttle get a high-priority target and another target. Vessery will go after one, while the shuttle goes after the other. Also if the shuttle ever has to run, he can keep setting up targets for Vessery. The Sensor Jammer helps keep the shuttle alive for a long, long time.

VS falcon

Depending on the escorts, generally ignore them until the Falcon is down. It's pretty common for Vessery to land 4 hits against the Falcon with every shot when firing out of arc. Vessery always tries to hold onto his focus for return fire. The TIEs keep setting up opportunities to block the falcon, denying actions and getting range 1 shots when appropriate. The shuttle will try to slow roll as much as possible to keep firing on the Falcon. When the Falcon is dead, mop-up the escorts.

VS Phantom

Keeping the Defender as far away as possible is key. Defender at range 3 of the Phantom has the best chance of keeping it in arc. The shuttle landing a target lock on it makes it so Vessery really doesn't care if he's shooting a Phantom with ACD. The TIEs are mostly used to support the shuttle depending on what the Phantom and what the other ships are doing.

With this list, I LOVE it when people try to chase down the shuttle. Vessery just pounds them. If you lose the shuttle Vessery does lose a lot of power, but at that point the enemy should have taken so many hits that it doesn't particularly matter.

If someone tries to chase Vessery, I'll either run him towards the shuttle or fly past them and come around next turn depending on what he's up against.

My current list includes a hammer. And the first person I face that runs a Fat Chewie or Fat Han I hit the ship with a hammer. So far I am undefeated, I don't see what the big deal is.

This tactic works for TIE Phantoms too, as well as bad service at a restaurant, people talking about you behind your back, police who want to take your hammer from you...

My current list:

Colonel Vessery w/ Outmaneuver & HLC

OGP w/ Sensor Jammer, Weapons Engineer & ST-321

Academy Pilot x2

For general setups, I have the shuttle hug one side of the board with the two TIEs on one of his flanks. Vessery usually sets up in the middle, angled to get him a straight shot through the asteroids to meet the enemy at the flank the same time the rest of my ships do. If my opponent goes after Vessery, they get hit by the shuttle and two TIEs. The TIEs try to block and take range 1 shots. Vessery tries to stay at range 2-3 as much as possible.

The combination of Weapons Engineer & ST-321 let's the shuttle get a high-priority target and another target. Vessery will go after one, while the shuttle goes after the other. Also if the shuttle ever has to run, he can keep setting up targets for Vessery. The Sensor Jammer helps keep the shuttle alive for a long, long time.

VS falcon

Depending on the escorts, generally ignore them until the Falcon is down. It's pretty common for Vessery to land 4 hits against the Falcon with every shot when firing out of arc. Vessery always tries to hold onto his focus for return fire. The TIEs keep setting up opportunities to block the falcon, denying actions and getting range 1 shots when appropriate. The shuttle will try to slow roll as much as possible to keep firing on the Falcon. When the Falcon is dead, mop-up the escorts.

VS Phantom

Keeping the Defender as far away as possible is key. Defender at range 3 of the Phantom has the best chance of keeping it in arc. The shuttle landing a target lock on it makes it so Vessery really doesn't care if he's shooting a Phantom with ACD. The TIEs are mostly used to support the shuttle depending on what the Phantom and what the other ships are doing.

With this list, I LOVE it when people try to chase down the shuttle. Vessery just pounds them. If you lose the shuttle Vessery does lose a lot of power, but at that point the enemy should have taken so many hits that it doesn't particularly matter.

If someone tries to chase Vessery, I'll either run him towards the shuttle or fly past them and come around next turn depending on what he's up against.

I am interested in trying this one out!

My current list includes a hammer. And the first person I face that runs a Fat Chewie or Fat Han I hit the ship with a hammer. So far I am undefeated, I don't see what the big deal is.

This tactic works for TIE Phantoms too, as well as bad service at a restaurant, people talking about you behind your back, police who want to take your hammer from you...

The first reading through I thought the hammer was a metaphor...

I swear I'm smart...

My current list:

Colonel Vessery w/ Outmaneuver & HLC

OGP w/ Sensor Jammer, Weapons Engineer & ST-321

Academy Pilot x2

For general setups, I have the shuttle hug one side of the board with the two TIEs on one of his flanks. Vessery usually sets up in the middle, angled to get him a straight shot through the asteroids to meet the enemy at the flank the same time the rest of my ships do. If my opponent goes after Vessery, they get hit by the shuttle and two TIEs. The TIEs try to block and take range 1 shots. Vessery tries to stay at range 2-3 as much as possible.

The combination of Weapons Engineer & ST-321 let's the shuttle get a high-priority target and another target. Vessery will go after one, while the shuttle goes after the other. Also if the shuttle ever has to run, he can keep setting up targets for Vessery. The Sensor Jammer helps keep the shuttle alive for a long, long time.

My submission was going to be similar. I don't know about sensor jammer on the shuttle. I am really really torn about EU or backstabber for those 4pts. Also not sold on ST-321... 3 points for one round of TL's vs. many of the other upgrade options (especially Crew slots) is huge.

My current list:

Colonel Vessery w/ Outmaneuver & HLC

OGP w/ Sensor Jammer, Weapons Engineer & ST-321

Academy Pilot x2

For general setups, I have the shuttle hug one side of the board with the two TIEs on one of his flanks. Vessery usually sets up in the middle, angled to get him a straight shot through the asteroids to meet the enemy at the flank the same time the rest of my ships do. If my opponent goes after Vessery, they get hit by the shuttle and two TIEs. The TIEs try to block and take range 1 shots. Vessery tries to stay at range 2-3 as much as possible.

The combination of Weapons Engineer & ST-321 let's the shuttle get a high-priority target and another target. Vessery will go after one, while the shuttle goes after the other. Also if the shuttle ever has to run, he can keep setting up targets for Vessery. The Sensor Jammer helps keep the shuttle alive for a long, long time.

My submission was going to be similar. I don't know about sensor jammer on the shuttle. I am really really torn about EU or backstabber for those 4pts. Also not sold on ST-321... 3 points for one round of TL's vs. many of the other upgrade options (especially Crew slots) is huge.

I dunno about 1 round, the fight (or just Vessery's target more importantly) can get away from the shuttle if it gets extended. But yeah, 2 or 3 times.

My submission:

Col. V + HLC + outmaneuver

OGP+ weapons engineer+ intel agent

Backstabber

AP+TC

Why I like it better:

Backstabber- want to throw more dice? Done. Want to draw fire off big V? Done. Higher PS simaltaneous fires or beats a lot of pilots.

Shuttle- less points on a support ship without EU. Still maintains the 2 TL's and peeks at a dial. Does require some closer flying but vs. both opponents you need to tag team them anyway.

AP+ TC: 2pts is going to be well spent when you really need an extra TL and the tie is fast enough and maneuverable enough to get in range 3 of anything you need.

TC+ intel might not be needed. Tactician and an init bid might be ok but doesn't matter as much. Hull upgrade on V might be good too. Once Rebel aces Hits I might even be tempted to drop HLC for proton rocket and an EU upgrade so the shuttle is more formidable.

My current list:

Colonel Vessery w/ Outmaneuver & HLC

OGP w/ Sensor Jammer, Weapons Engineer & ST-321

Academy Pilot x2

For general setups, I have the shuttle hug one side of the board with the two TIEs on one of his flanks. Vessery usually sets up in the middle, angled to get him a straight shot through the asteroids to meet the enemy at the flank the same time the rest of my ships do. If my opponent goes after Vessery, they get hit by the shuttle and two TIEs. The TIEs try to block and take range 1 shots. Vessery tries to stay at range 2-3 as much as possible.

The combination of Weapons Engineer & ST-321 let's the shuttle get a high-priority target and another target. Vessery will go after one, while the shuttle goes after the other. Also if the shuttle ever has to run, he can keep setting up targets for Vessery. The Sensor Jammer helps keep the shuttle alive for a long, long time.

My submission was going to be similar. I don't know about sensor jammer on the shuttle. I am really really torn about EU or backstabber for those 4pts. Also not sold on ST-321... 3 points for one round of TL's vs. many of the other upgrade options (especially Crew slots) is huge.

Sensor Jammer really, really helps the shuttle stay alive. If the attacker doesn't have a focus, you just saved yourself a hit. If they have a target lock and no focus, you saved yourself a hit again. That happens with EVERY attack against the shuttle. If the attacker does have a focus, you may have just forced them to spend that focus, which they now don't have on defense.

And ST-321 isn't for the extra round of TL's, it's for setting up shots for Vessery. It gives Vessery more freedom of movement and target acquisition. Vessery can operate in areas away from the shuttle, shooting at targets that the shuttle isn't able to target lock. If I had to drop 1, it would probably be the weapons engineer. Though I think it's better with both. If you only have ST-321, you can target a ship that will be in range to the shuttle on it's first round of shooting. If Vessery doesn't kill it, the shuttle can hopefully kill it with its target lock. Next round, rinse/repeat.

EU does help the shuttle turn, but then the shuttle isn't target-locking or focusing. And even then, I much prefer EU paired with Advanced sensors on the shuttle.

I'm not seeing the value of loading defensive bonus on the ship that will not be fired on. As is the shuttle is no threat and shouldn't be shot. Your efforts at taking out Vessery take away his ability foist as fast as focusing down the shuttle. Then you're left with 2x 2 dice ship and a ship that will never get either the falcon or phantom in arc.

good to see some shuttle squads getting serious discussion here.

i was thinking of an adaption to the Soontir/Yorr/2xOGP squad thats getting a bit of use.

im thinking tactician over FCS might be interesting.

Here is the squad.

Soontir + PTL (30)

Capt Yorr (24)

Omicron Group Pilot + Tactician (23)

Omicron Group Pilot + Tactician (23)

i realize i will do a bit less damage wout FCS but stress oe even double stress on a ship is pretty decent.

thoughts?

I'm not seeing the value of loading defensive bonus on the ship that will not be fired on. As is the shuttle is no threat and shouldn't be shot. Your efforts at taking out Vessery take away his ability foist as fast as focusing down the shuttle. Then you're left with 2x 2 dice ship and a ship that will never get either the falcon or phantom in arc.

Ah, but it does get fired on. Usually, the only ship in arc to most of your opponents will be the shuttle and the TIEs. If they move all their forces towards Vessery, Vessery pulls them towards the shuttle. Also, don't underestimate the firepower of a TL + focused shuttle and two TIEs.

EDIT: For example if your opponent had the option of shooting at Vessery with 1 ship, while Vessery was at range 3 with a focus or shooting at the shuttle with all of their ships at range 1, which do you think they'd take?

As another aside, I also used to think that sensor jammer wasn't worth it until I took it for fun one day. I've been a believer ever since.

good to see some shuttle squads getting serious discussion here.

i was thinking of an adaption to the Soontir/Yorr/2xOGP squad thats getting a bit of use.

im thinking tactician over FCS might be interesting.

Here is the squad.

Soontir + PTL (30)

Capt Yorr (24)

Omicron Group Pilot + Tactician (23)

Omicron Group Pilot + Tactician (23)

i realize i will do a bit less damage wout FCS but stress oe even double stress on a ship is pretty decent.

thoughts?

That is Dom's list in the Finals of the VASSAL Galactic Cup, except he has FCS instead of Tacticians, and Doom Shuttle instead of Yorr. At Regionals he placed 2nd with the same list using Yorr instead of the Doom Shuttle. The game went to time, which is odd for a Final Match at Regionals.

Personally I would rather have FCS than Tactician, if I had to choose.

I like dom's hipposhuttlebus ballet of doom.

Double tactician is also nice but the odds of getting both unmanueveable ships at range 2 and in arc of a single target seems much less likely to happen than FCS triggering.

I like dom's hipposhuttlebus ballet of doom.

Double tactician is also nice but the odds of getting both unmanueveable ships at range 2 and in arc of a single target seems much less likely to happen than FCS triggering.

See, thats why you put both tacticians on the same ship, so you guarantee 2 stress tokens at once!