The only one going to be disappointed is you, Erik. When they don't do star destroyer throwing, flying, ubermensch Jedi, you'll have something else to complain about in a game you don't play.

I think there are going to be a lot of people disappointed that the official Star Wars RPG isn't very good for recreating the kinds of Jedi action they enjoy from Rebels and the Sequels, especially after waiting so long for Jedi.

Cite to Jedi action in Rebels. Storyboard, written script, video trailer? Note: a vague statement of "the Jedi will rise" from the official trailer totes does not count.

Also lol pretty clear you don't play the game if you don't think the 2 existing Force specs don't allow you to recreate most Force stuff that's not super-niche.

Between

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1_F7zg4B30

(thats a 16 second trailer that spends about 5-6 seconds talking about Jedi and The Power of the Force)

and

http://m.mtv.com/news/article.rbml?id=1715515

The biggest news out of the panel, which didn't feature any actual footage, was a new Imperial bad guy: Darth Vader's Inquisitor. He's tasked with taking down Jedi on a remote, outer rim planet... An interesting prospect, because all the Jedi were supposedly killed in Episode III. "The Empire has reason to believe there's a Jedi involved somewhere," said Pablo Hidalgo, story editor for Lucasfilm. "There is a presence of Jedi in the show, but we do not want to diminish the importance of Luke Skywalker being the last Jedi."

and the fact that Disney like money, I am pretty sure there will be Jedi action in rebels.

Personally, I am all for it.

He's told people that showed an interest in playing an Imperial campaign that they were playing the game wrong, he was all sorts of rude to FFG during the EotE Beta about why they didn't have a full rules for playing Jedi Masters, and over on the EotE boards has equated any player group that's not fully supportive of the Galactic Empire to being terrorists on part with the worst sort that we have in the real world.

As far as FFG and "Jedi Masters" though, at least there it was just plain ol' refusal to accept FFG's " working as intended " WRT representing Force-sensitive PCs within the confines of the lore... irrespective of what FFG may do in F&D... and irrespective of the fact that FFG was pretty overtly leaning with what I'll broadly generalize as the " de-emphasize Jedi " crowd.

It didn't make others any more sympathetic to his position when, based on what FFG presented in the EotE beta and core books, a simple enough answer would have been that " the powerful Jedi/Sith characters in the movies or other Force-users in the EU have that much XP ."

Also lol pretty clear you don't play the game if you don't think the 2 existing Force specs don't allow you to recreate most Force stuff that's not super-niche.

Mind you, to me the issue is somewhat bypassed by the fact that NPCs are not beholden to the same character creation/stat block rules as PCs, bypassing the " Jedi Master PC " issue altogether...

For example, you could try estimating the amount of XP 'required' by looking at the Forsaken Jedi and the Jedi-in-Hiding in AoR... now try to reconstruct those stat blocks as closely as possible for a PC, use whatever min-maxing you must (i.e. specific species, or using both the EotE core book and the AoR beta-then-eventually-core books) but just get as close as possible to a 1:1 match... and that will be your ballpark for " what measure a Jedi " in the form of a specific quantifiable property (experience points) in the game rules.

"There is a presence of Jedi in the show, but we do not want to diminish the importance of Luke Skywalker being the last Jedi."

Kind of says it right there that Jedi will not be star destroyer throwing, flying ubermensch. Thanks for making my point, Erik. It seems that FFG agrees and will not be doing uber Jedi. Keeping it more in the realm of the original trilogy. I am liking what I am seeing so far.

hahaha you referenced the exact trailer I had previously seen and told you was not relevant. Somehow I knew you would! Keepin' it classy as usual. Gotta love you thinking one phrase in a 16-second trailer is the be-all, end-all.

and over on the EotE boards has equated any player group that's not fully supportive of the Galactic Empire to being terrorists on part with the worst sort that we have in the real world.

Now this last item's interesting, considering not only the seeming 180 turnaround

It is almost as if Mr. Morningfire spent more time running to the moderators to report me for having the temerity to disagree with him than he did reading my posts!

Coming from someone who doesn't read the posts of others, but rather hand-picks remarks he can dissect and misinterpret? Great argument, Erik.

hahaha you referenced the exact trailer I had previously seen and told you was not relevant. Somehow I knew you would! Keepin' it classy as usual. Gotta love you thinking one phrase in a 16-second trailer is the be-all, end-all.

So, to be clear, you expect there will be no Jedi action in Rebels?

It didn't make others any more sympathetic to his position when, based on what FFG presented in the EotE beta and core books, a simple enough answer would have been that " the powerful Jedi/Sith characters in the movies or other Force-users in the EU have that much XP ."

The system probably breaks at XP levels that high. I mean, maybe it doesn't, but all the other systems I've played at high level haven't worked very well, and I've seen a number of posters comment that EotE starts to fail at some point as well, so as I suggested to Mr. Morningfire so long ago I think it would have been a good idea to check as soon as possible.

You also have the problems of needing to create high level characters before the game can start, with all the decisions and book checking that involves, as well as having to start playing at high level with lots of special rules in play would be something of a baptism of fire for groups new to the game with Force and Destiny.

What I expect is not relevant. What is relevant is the objective information provided by the show's PR team. And it would be very difficult to square Clone Wars-type Jedi action occurring shortly before the events of the original trilogy, considering Rebels takes place post-Order 66 and pre-ANH. Vague references to the Force don't mean we'll be seeing Clone Wars type action or high-level Force use.

considering Rebels takes place post-Order 66 and pre-ANH.

So did The Force Unleashed, and that had more high octane Jedi asskicking than anything else Star Wars.

TFU is of questionable canonicity, especially since Rebels will focus on the formation of the Rebellion, which was detailed in TFU, and I doubt Disney is interested in letting that story just be bygone from a video game.

Also Starkiller was Vader's apprentice. He had a wealth of institutional knowledge being trained as a dark side adept. During the Dark Times, the Sith had a monopoly on training holocrons and texts and Palpatine saturated the Imperial bureaucracy with loyal darksiders, able to train and promote them as he saw fit. He had both the carrot and the stick, there. What light-side Force users were out there, especially surviving Jedi, did not have access to anything of the sort and really could only directly train a pupil from their own experiences, as Luke did under Obi-Wan and Yoda (no texts, no classes, no holocrons). And as Shaak Ti did with Maris Brood in TFU, making Maris a well-trained Force User who grew even stronger when she succumbed to her hate. But that was over a span of years, not the days that Luke trained under Obi-Wan, or weeks (or whatever) under Yoda.

TFU is of questionable canonicity, especially since Rebels will focus on the formation of the Rebellion, which was detailed in TFU, and I doubt Disney is interested in letting that story just be bygone from a video game.

Oh, I agree, I just think it is a good example of how to work Jedi action in to the period. I imagine Rebels will do something similar.

Ahsoka providing mentoring services to the scoobie gang maybe?

It didn't make others any more sympathetic to his position when, based on what FFG presented in the EotE beta and core books, a simple enough answer would have been that " the powerful Jedi/Sith characters in the movies or other Force-users in the EU have that much XP ."

The system probably breaks at XP levels that high. I mean, maybe it doesn't, but all the other systems I've played at high level haven't worked very well, and I've seen a number of posters comment that EotE starts to fail at some point as well, so as I suggested to Mr. Morningfire so long ago I think it would have been a good idea to check as soon as possible.

You also have the problems of needing to create high level characters before the game can start, with all the decisions and book checking that involves, as well as having to start playing at high level with lots of special rules in play would be something of a baptism of fire for groups new to the game with Force and Destiny.

I applaud the fact that you are finally partaking in a pleasant discussion about the game and the system.

However, I cannt fathom this system breaking from high level xp and have not heared of anyone saying that is the case... Where did you hear or read that?

What is a normal amount of xp? I hand out 10-20 in a session and run my session every other week. So I am getting towards 80xp on a character or two. Now, seriously take 20xp and spend it, then take 10, 15, 20, and so on. Keep in mind each of those chunks of XP represent a gaming session, 3-4 hours of your time.

Now at what point is the character becoming overpowered? You have an attribute cap of 6 and a skill cap of 5 you can only go so far with this system.

The question becomes: How many years have you been playing to get to that point?

What is a normal amount of xp? I hand out 10-20 in a session and run my session every other week. So I am getting towards 80xp on a character or two. Now, seriously take 20xp and spend it, then take 10, 15, 20, and so on. Keep in mind each of those chunks of XP represent a gaming session, 3-4 hours of your time.

Now at what point is the character becoming overpowered? You have an attribute cap of 6 and a skill cap of 5 you can only go so far with this system.

The question becomes: How many years have you been playing to get to that point?

I've been running my campaign since the full release this summer. I usually give 15-20xp per session. My PCs are up to 265xp. So far, no one has any skills above Rank 3, and none have gained Dedication yet (they are going for rounded and diverse characters rather than 'optimized builds'). At this rate, I don't foresee any issues until well over 600xp at the soonest. If your players like to min-max, they may find stress points sooner..

What is a normal amount of xp? I hand out 10-20 in a session and run my session every other week. So I am getting towards 80xp on a character or two. Now, seriously take 20xp and spend it, then take 10, 15, 20, and so on. Keep in mind each of those chunks of XP represent a gaming session, 3-4 hours of your time.

Now at what point is the character becoming overpowered? You have an attribute cap of 6 and a skill cap of 5 you can only go so far with this system.

The question becomes: How many years have you been playing to get to that point?

I've been running my campaign since the full release this summer. I usually give 15-20xp per session. My PCs are up to 265xp. So far, no one has any skills above Rank 3, and none have gained Dedication yet (they are going for rounded and diverse characters rather than 'optimized builds'). At this rate, I don't foresee any issues until well over 600xp at the soonest. If your players like to min-max, they may find stress points sooner..

My players are around 200 earned XP, and several players have a skill at 4. (The ace pilot has astrogation 4, the gunner has gunner 4, the R2 unit has Mechanic 4, and the commando has ranged heavy at 3 but was contemplating a boost to 4.

The other two are divvying up between force and primary roles, so are somewhat lower... all of them have at least two skills at 3. Really, about the same levels as with my edge groups at the same XP totals.

The system being focused on the narrative, and on well-rounded characters and their stories, min-maxing will probably be avoided by most players (at least the ones I know). But abuse can be performed in any system by any player who knows the rules well enough - that's not a quality unique to EotE.

As I run my games exclusively online - and therefore engage in a slower (but more detailed) campaign and series of posts, my group has been playing for four months and only received around 30-50 XP. They seem less keen on banking and spending than they do focusing on the story, however. I doubt that XP maximums will become a problem for us in the near future.

When things heat up, of course, XP will accummulate quicker to represent what the heroes are doing, but for now, the speed is slower but more precise.

What is a normal amount of xp? I hand out 10-20 in a session and run my session every other week. So I am getting towards 80xp on a character or two. Now, seriously take 20xp and spend it, then take 10, 15, 20, and so on. Keep in mind each of those chunks of XP represent a gaming session, 3-4 hours of your time.

Now at what point is the character becoming overpowered? You have an attribute cap of 6 and a skill cap of 5 you can only go so far with this system.

The question becomes: How many years have you been playing to get to that point?

I've been running my campaign since the full release this summer. I usually give 15-20xp per session. My PCs are up to 265xp. So far, no one has any skills above Rank 3, and none have gained Dedication yet (they are going for rounded and diverse characters rather than 'optimized builds'). At this rate, I don't foresee any issues until well over 600xp at the soonest. If your players like to min-max, they may find stress points sooner..

My players are around 200 earned XP, and several players have a skill at 4. (The ace pilot has astrogation 4, the gunner has gunner 4, the R2 unit has Mechanic 4, and the commando has ranged heavy at 3 but was contemplating a boost to 4.

The other two are divvying up between force and primary roles, so are somewhat lower... all of them have at least two skills at 3. Really, about the same levels as with my edge groups at the same XP totals.

Oops! I was wrong. The PC Mechanic does have Mechanics 4. Most of the characters have 3-4 skills at rank 3 and almost all of their other Career Skills at 1-2. Few of them have invested in non-career skills. BTW, this is for my Edge of the Empire game, not AoR, but it's probably about the same for system stress benchmarking.

I'm not sure how the system breaks. Assuming not going into Force, you can still keep diversifying into new Specializations, ad infinitum. It takes between 75-150 in-Spec XP spent to get Dedication, meaning you will max out your most important stuff early on but will always have some shortcomings/things other people are better at, which is fine with me. Enemies of all levels are easily increased in skill to pose a challenge (or not, to represent the characters' puissance - but there will always be someone nastier in the end).

And for the record I would not let a player buy into a Force-Sensitive spec just for the sake of not having anything else they wanted to spend XP on.

I'm not sure how the system breaks. Assuming not going into Force, you can still keep diversifying into new Specializations, ad infinitum. It takes between 75-150 in-Spec XP spent to get Dedication, meaning you will max out your most important stuff early on but will always have some shortcomings/things other people are better at, which is fine with me. Enemies of all levels are easily increased in skill to pose a challenge (or not, to represent the characters' puissance - but there will always be someone nastier in the end).

And for the record I would not let a player buy into a Force-Sensitive spec just for the sake of not having anything else they wanted to spend XP on.

I'm sure it will break at some point when a character can get enough Lethal Blows along with a high ranked Vicious weapon with a low Critical rating. "All I need is one Advantage and the Critical is at +120!!!" That'll be ugly.

I'm sure it will break at some point when a character can get enough Lethal Blows along with a high ranked Vicious weapon with a low Critical rating. "All I need is one Advantage and the Critical is at +120!!!" That'll be ugly.

At least there/here we can forecast what " ugly " and 'breaking' looks like. More insight than Saga...

But seriously, we can already look at the Emperor's Hand, Forsaken Jedi (EotE) and Jedi-in-Hiding (AoR beta) NPCs for " eyeballing " what a corresponding PC version would 'have' to be like... as well as the fact that they're all Nemesis-level NPCs. (I'd exchange the ranks in Adversary for some XP when attempting to 'eyeball'.)

The " number range " used for characters in FF SWRPG (or as someone on Something Awful dubbed EotE, " the good Star Wars RPG ") is rather small compared to d20, but we can see that both of the EotE Force-wielding NPCs push the higher end thereof.