And they are not Space Nazis.

While they are racists against non-humans they did not errect concentration camps to methologicaly kill them off.

And don't bring up slavery. Several aliens use and/or condone slavery even amongst themselves. I am looking at you Twi'leks, Hutts, Trandoshans, Barbarels and others!

That the Empire enslaves non-humans is part of canon. That they enslave all non-humans isn't. Which leaves the causes of that enslavement unspecified, but we can safely presume it to be for criminal offenses.

And then there's the Spice Mines of Kessel.

Slavery by the Empire and its agents is a Lucasfilm-accepted part of the EU.

All that still culminates in Palpatine not being speciest himself but willfully exploiting, harnessing, and abetting the formally enshrining of pre-existing speciest/chauvinist sentiment by suborning/layering his New Order atop a pre-existing hierarchy of Core Worlds plutocracy... so he's still an evil monarch who installed " people in charge " (subordinate to him) into key positions who were evil as heck and acting evilly as heck.

By the way, the backstory for Chewbacca has since been expanded to state that Grand Moff Tarkin wanted Wookiees as slave labor for constructing the Death Star, hence the invasion(s) of Kashyyyk -- i.e. the same year as Episode III , meaning that the clones got up to more dirty dealings than just Order 66 -- specifically to capture and enslave Wookiees under the guise of quelling an uprising augmented by false claims of Wookiee (and other species') non-sentience.

Well, the initial suppression of Kashyyyk was because they were aiding Jedi refugees and of taking up arms in the defense of the Jedi. By the view of the Empire, that was providing aid to the enemy and insurrection. This is why the Wookiees were stripped of their rights. Tarkin at that point just figured that the prisoners would be more useful as a labor force than just sitting in cells (or exterminated, which was another possible answer considered).

It didn't take much for the empire to decide to invade and enslave an alien world though. Dac got hit because their senator signed the petition to have Palpatine give up his emergency powers, and open peace talks with the CIS.then the Empire reroute the history books so it was an Imperial ship which made first contact with the Mon Calamari and Quarrens even though they had been members of the Republic for thousands of years.

It didn't take much for the empire to decide to invade and enslave an alien world though. Dac got hit because their senator signed the petition to have Palpatine give up his emergency powers, and open peace talks with the CIS.then the Empire reroute the history books so it was an Imperial ship which made first contact with the Mon Calamari and Quarrens even though they had been members of the Republic for thousands of years.

The Mon Cal shipyards were responsible for designing and (possibly) producing some of the vessels used by the CIS. Again, they were supplying aid to the enemy. Not surprisingly, the Empire didn't trust them after that.

Edit: That was actually Quarren expatriots, but they all look alike to the Imperials.

Well, the initial suppression of Kashyyyk was because they were aiding Jedi refugees and of taking up arms in the defense of the Jedi. By the view of the Empire, that was providing aid to the enemy and insurrection. This is why the Wookiees were stripped of their rights. Tarkin at that point just figured that the prisoners would be more useful as a labor force than just sitting in cells (or exterminated, which was another possible answer considered).

(I just rewatched the Holiday Special.)

The novel Dark Lord talks about the initial move against Kashyyyk happening much sooner - within a few days to several weeks after Order 66 started.

I am not denying that the Empire uses slaves.

But since other races use slaves, even some 'good' ones that help the Rebells/Republic makes slavery a weak argument against the Empire.

@castlecruncher: You brought zup a heartwarming story about a person that got kicked in the curb when the Empire took over.

I brought up a heartwarming story about a person who's live got better when the Empire took over.

How is my argument invalid?

I think we need a separate forum for the space nazi fanboys.

I think we need a seperate forum for you.

I am not denying that the Empire uses slaves.

But since other races use slaves, even some 'good' ones that help the Rebells/Republic makes slavery a weak argument against the Empire.

@castlecruncher: You brought zup a heartwarming story about a person that got kicked in the curb when the Empire took over.

I brought up a heartwarming story about a person who's live got better when the Empire took over.

How is my argument invalid?

Funny thing for me is reading between the lines in both of your posts and seeing a new route for " why join the Alliance ":

Because your local Imp was actually a neglectful administrator who didn't effectively use force and thus was no better than the Republic's prior negligence, and your sector wasn't considered " big time " enough for the " higher " Empire to bother intervening (noticeably)... after all, it's a big enough galaxy that the incompetents that couldn't be dismissed had to be chucked into someone 's sector, and unfortunately that sector was yours... so ironically, in this respect/in your sector the Empire was all too much like the Republic that it had nominally replaced... changed the insignia, changed the uniforms, didn't actually change people's lives for the better... hope dashed turns into hurt which turns into anger which turns into determination to fight for a real better future, and if the new hope for that can be found in the Alliance...

@Chortles: I did not mean to leave anything between my lines.

But yes, you listed another reason why to join the Rebellion.

Funnily enough some of those reasons were the same to join the Empire just 17 years before.

Slavery by the Empire and its agents is a Lucasfilm-accepted part of the EU.

In the same vein, slavery of humans by the Old Republic is an important part of the prequel trilogy.

In the same vein, slavery of humans by the Old Republic is an important part of the prequel trilogy.

Incidental note: It's depicted as occurring in the Outer Rim and beyond the noticeable reach of Republic writ*, which in those respects (if not depiction of slavery) notably parallels the Empire almost three decades later .

* Note how " Republic credits are no good out here " according to Watto... it's not just anti-slavery law enforcement that holds no sway on Tatooine (or the depicted locations thereof) as of 32 BBY.

Well, one of the biggest mistakes of the Old Republic was the abolishing of the central military and the following regulation of fleet sizes the sectors could afford themselves. Guess who the (outlying) sectors with little money had to bow to now.

Followed by the 'brilliant' idea to declare in 124 BBY the complete Outer Rim and and parts of the Mid Rim a free-trade zone AND granting several megacorporations the status of functional constituencies (granting them Senate representation) which made sure that those with money and power stayed in power.

Those are the reasons the Republic lost a lot of face, control and power. Especially in the regions were the megacorps and other businessmen (say Hi to your new Hutt Lord) ran things. No wonder Republic credits were not accepted about a century later on Tatooine .. and other planets.

Yeah though you would think there would be exchange rate if nothing else. The currency of the largest power in known space should be worth something to any space faring world IMO.

And disbanding the military was an act of idiocy, especially with all the loopholes the Core sectors used, and the fact that the Judaical department's high ranking officials tended to freak out if the few Outer Rim Sectors which could afford to exploit them tried to do so. And finally allowing the Megacorps to have full scale battle fleets was insane. If they want ships to fight off pirates a small fleet of fighters, armed transports, corvettes, frigates, and gunships makes sense. But pirates in Star Wars don't usually have the kind of ships which call for Heavy Cruisers or Battleships to take on.

Pirates in Star Wars are usually lucky if they can get modern frigates and incredibly lucky if they can get Modern small cruiser classification vessels. I know the Stark Combine had some Vainglorious class cruisers but we aren't sure how large they are and they weren't top of the line when he had them, and the Kaloth class ships they had are actually midsize frigates rather then cruisers. The only Star Destroyer or Heavy Cruiser sized Pirate craft I know of, other then possibly the Vainglorius ships I mentioned, in the late Old Republic/Imperial era is one Imperial Venator whose commander and crew wen renegade, a few former CIS warships after the Clone Wars, and the Zann Consortium none of which were around when the Trade Federation and friends were given permission to deploy heavy warships.

Slavery by the Empire and its agents is a Lucasfilm-accepted part of the EU.

In the same vein, slavery of humans by the Old Republic is an important part of the prequel trilogy.

Good point, RogueCorona, an il-/legal exchange rate should be something that someone so close to the Republic should have. Smugglers surely do business on both sides and Naboo is very close to Tatooine. Not to mention with a Trade Blockade it would be very profitable (but risky).

The biggest private vessel i know was the Errant Venture, but that was later ;-)

In the same vein, slavery of humans by the Old Republic is an important part of the prequel trilogy.

Incidental note: It's depicted as occurring in the Outer Rim and beyond the noticeable reach of Republic writ*, which in those respects (if not depiction of slavery) notably parallels the Empire almost three decades later .

* Note how " Republic credits are no good out here " according to Watto... it's not just anti-slavery law enforcement that holds no sway on Tatooine (or the depicted locations thereof) as of 32 BBY.

Slavery by the Empire and its agents is a Lucasfilm-accepted part of the EU.

In the same vein, slavery of humans by the Old Republic is an important part of the prequel trilogy.

Tatooine isn't actually part of the Republic. It's part of Huttspace, which isn't actually part of the Republic. (Remember, they couldn't even spend Republic Credits on Tatooine in Ep. I.) Huttspace is, according to EU sources, brought under the Empire around 5-10 BBY... And still mostly autonomous in 0BBY. (Tatooine isn't in Huttspace anymore by 0BBY, but it was fairly remote from the bulk anyway.)

I'm actually referring to the clones in the GAR, but good points about the Rim.

Good point, RogueCorona, an il-/legal exchange rate should be something that someone so close to the Republic should have. Smugglers surely do business on both sides and Naboo is very close to Tatooine. Not to mention with a Trade Blockade it would be very profitable (but risky). The biggest private vessel i know was the Errant Venture, but that was later ;-)

Yeah I mean when the Rebel Alliance was printing its own money there was a black market Alliance credit to Imperial credit rate so it makes absolutely no sense for there not to be one for Republic credits to whatever the worlds in Hutt space used IMO. They could have had the same effect storywise by having Watto say they don't have enough at the exchange rate, and had it make much more sense IMO.

Good point, RogueCorona, an il-/legal exchange rate should be something that someone so close to the Republic should have. Smugglers surely do business on both sides and Naboo is very close to Tatooine. Not to mention with a Trade Blockade it would be very profitable (but risky). The biggest private vessel i know was the Errant Venture, but that was later ;-)

Yeah I mean when the Rebel Alliance was printing its own money there was a black market Alliance credit to Imperial credit rate so it makes absolutely no sense for there not to be one for Republic credits to whatever the worlds in Hutt space used IMO. They could have had the same effect storywise by having Watto say they don't have enough at the exchange rate, and had it make much more sense IMO.

Not entirely they are available in coins as well, or chips which are easily transferable. And the idea that the Hutts would do harm to anyone using the currency of a state the Hutts have interests in is insane, and where was that implied at all?.Its not like the Hutts don't do business in the Republic or used goods manufactured by, and purchased from Republic-based corporations.

I always got the impression that Watto's rejection of Republic credits wasn't literally "they are not worth anything" but rather "they aren't worth enough for me to deal with the hassle".

I wonder, does anyone know if the Trade Federation or Intergalactic Banking Clan had their own currencies? That might explain why Republic credits are less valuable, since those corporations are far closer than major Republic trade.

And on the subject of the corporations' fleets, most of their Episode I & II ships are essentially Q-ships (armed merchantmen), allowing them to conceal the true extent of their capabilities.

The Banking Clan backed the Republic credit if memory serves so I doubt they had their own currency competing with it but I could be wrong. And the Trade Federation ships were Armed Freighters and Q-ships but they were authorized to have them and they were still far more heavily armed then anything needed to be for the role they were built for. Hell they outgun and outclass the Dreadnaughts which were the heavy vessels of the Judicial Forces at the time in pretty much every area. The Banking clan warships outclass the Dreadnaught in most areas as well though they have lighter armor.

The Banking Clan backed the Republic credit if memory serves so I doubt they had their own currency competing with it but I could be wrong. And the Trade Federation ships were Armed Freighters and Q-ships but they were authorized to have them and they were still far more heavily armed then anything needed to be for the role they were built for. Hell they outgun and outclass the Dreadnaughts which were the heavy vessels of the Judicial Forces at the time in pretty much every area. The Banking clan warships outclass the Dreadnaught in most areas as well though they have lighter armor.

Oh I totally agree. They're built from the keel up as warships disguised as Q-ships, and the modular nature of the Lucrehulk means they can stockpile (and secretly militarize) components for a rapid build-up. And the Honorverse has taught me just how powerful a Q-ship can be.

But technically , to the corrupt and lazy Republic, they're cargo freighters.