There's one thing that struck me while I was reading this thread: If you require the pilot to make a roll for flying the ship, what then about single-person starfighters? In a chase situation (or any space battle, for that matter) X-Wings and TIE fighters would be forced to choose between flying their ships or shooting, since you can only take one action per round.

Absolutely. It's a whole different game when you're flying solo in a starfighter.

Gain the Advantage is an action, and as such, you give up firing for a turn in order to line up a better shot in the following turn. In the case of a chase, the roll is made not as an action but as part of a manuever, so one could potentially still take the action to fire.

Use the Asteroid Chase in EpV as an example. For the most part, the TIE fighters only fire when either they or the falcon is flying in a straight line. I need to go back and re-watch it to actually count how many times the Falcon was actuall hit (either in an action sequence, or implied from the cockpit view). I know the falcon did at one point take a turbolaster hit to the right rear quarter.

Yes, but my concern here was that a group of (for example) TIE fighters chasing a light freighter with turret guns would be wiped out in short order and without much tension since the turrets could fire without penalty while the TIEs had to make constant piloting rolls just to avoid crashing.

Well think of it, you're in a space freighter, it is meant to haul cargo from point A to B. You're not flying a tweaked out, modded like crazy Millennium Falcon. Do you really expect to be doing crazy aerial maneuvers? It is not a ship meant for dog fighting. If that is what you want then as someone suggested, purchase an escort starfighter and have a PC pilot that.

You essentially driving a tractor trailer with some turrets mounted on it for self defense. Would you expect to be able to out manouver a cop car chasing you down the highway? No.

*shrug* it's a moot point for our game. I gave the PC's 120k to start with and allowed them to build their ship. They did take the high output ion engine, so they're speed 4 now, and the .5 hyperdrive, so they actually are driving a tricked out Millennium Falcon.

I would think that the Wayfarer is more tractor trailer, and the light freighter is more Courier truck, like Fed Ex or UPS. and depending on the modifications I've done, and how good of a driver I am, it is entirely possible I could out manouver a cop car driving down a highway. Especially if my UPS truck is more of a SWAT van.

I recognise that it will be extremely difficult but not impossible. I know there's a chart associated with the action, and if i creall if the slower ship's speed is 2 or less than the ship it is attempting the action against the difficulty starts at hard/daunting? Add in the escallating difficulty for the back and forth and the faster ship will probably dominate the exchange eventually, but even one round of an unexpected juke/roll/whatever from a bigger ship could mean the difference.

I also prefer the cinematic element of the exchange. Having the player describe exactly how their big ship is positioning itself against a fighter will definately be a memorable experience.

Yes, but my concern here was that a group of (for example) TIE fighters chasing a light freighter with turret guns would be wiped out in short order and without much tension since the turrets could fire without penalty while the TIEs had to make constant piloting rolls just to avoid crashing.

Well, in that instance I'd rule that: their Pilot check for manoeuvring the asteroid field is the same as the chase roll, which is separate from Actions and Manoeuvres in the round (iirc - if not, I'd make it so, I'm AFB can't check), so the TIEs could fly evasively and attack - as they did in Ep V - while chasing. Why Leia didn't go into the turret and blast them I don't know (well lots of asteroids and potentially a lot more debris could make things more tricky I guess...)

Yes, but my concern here was that a group of (for example) TIE fighters chasing a light freighter with turret guns would be wiped out in short order and without much tension since the turrets could fire without penalty while the TIEs had to make constant piloting rolls just to avoid crashing.

Are you talking in open space, or an asteroid chase? A failed piloting check doesn't automatically mean a crash. Despair might indicate a collision, but failure usually indicates that the pilot had to slow down in order to avoid an obstacle... thereby reducing speed. Granted, flying through a dense asteroid belt generates not only setback dice, but challenge dice as well. Also, the success of a pilot's maneuvers will add boost or setback dice to whoever's sitting in the gunnery chair.

Just as a quick look in the rules, Han's flight through the asteroid belt meant that he was likely rolling piloting checks against PP RR with two setback dice. The TIE Fighter pilots, would have had at least that as well. A testament to how good of a pilot Han is... never bet against the Corellian...

The Millennium Falcon having speed 4 is a good guess. Han flying full throttle (not the talent) in an Asteroid field, I mean sure he's all kinds of stu... brave, but I doubt that he'd go all out still, not disputing your summary, except perhaps I'd upgrade the difficulty once more just for kicks. A chase in an asteroid field would in my book warrant an additional upgrade, no destiny point required. I'd perhaps also slap on another setback die just to drive home the fact that the player is doing something really silly. I know my player who's the pilot wouldn't mind, he'd just laugh roll and smile, whether it went well or not.

Oh! I just realised, the Full Throttle talent, and I think the other one I'm thinking of is called Tricky Target.

Full Throttle increases speed, but RAW states that it cannot perform new manoeuvres due to increased speed in case it reaches speed 3 or 4. Why not throw that out the window, and those talents are suddenly a lot more useful! Same with Tricky Target which reduces silhouette when targeted by 1. Since that talent is a passive talent I'm not sure it would be a great idea to let it allow a Silhouette 5 to do silhouette 4 stuff, but it could be a solution - perhaps make it a possibility? Also Brilliant Evasion is a nice pilot talent that allows an opposed check to make the ship unavailable as a target by an opponent for a number of rounds (I'd allow minion groups as the chosen "opponent" for that talent) ... there's lots of good stuff in that talent tree.

There's one thing that struck me while I was reading this thread: If you require the pilot to make a roll for flying the ship, what then about single-person starfighters? In a chase situation (or any space battle, for that matter) X-Wings and TIE fighters would be forced to choose between flying their ships or shooting, since you can only take one action per round.

That is why I only made the change for silhouette 4 ships. I figured the smaller ships are easier to maneuver. I will also let the pilot use the piloting or gunnery skill when firing in a fighter.

It's been mentioned tangentially here, but the distinction between 'base starting YT-1300' and 'Millennium Falcon' is actually a fairly significant one.

In Saga Edition, light freighters needed to get a special 'combat thrusters' upgrade in order to allow it to perform starfighter tricks. In Edge of the Empire, the same thing is obtained by boosting your thrusts to Speed 4 instead of Speed 3.

This is a feature, not a bug. Things like this represent having a tricked-out, dogfight-capable freighter that stands apart from the run-of-the-mill 'space truck' that most other ships of that make wind up being.

If you were playing an RPG along the lines of The Fast and the Furious and one of the players wanted to be a hotshot racer, they're going to be disappointed when they're stuck in a used 1987 Plymouth Reliant. Same thing with the hotshot pilot here in Star Wars--to shine, they need to vehicle to match, and thankfully, it's not that tough to get that vehicle tricked out enough to do the job.

This has all been fantastic. I sat down with the player (happens to be my wife)///

My wife is also in my Star Wars game. I don't think I could have married someone who didn't share my most important passion.

@Rikoshi: I whole heartedly agree. As I think I mentioned a few pages ago, the space combat we had was awesome! Although my group has spent the monies for an engine upgrade. Which does help.

I think some more options would be nice. Which could be done by boosting the Actions and Manoeuvres that require Speed 4 (I guess its really only Gain the Advantage) and add some weaker ones for the slower ships. So perhaps Gain the Advantage also grants a Stay on Target upgrade for Speed 4 starships? I don't know. I'm actually happy with the game as is, but obviously a few people are not.

I am hoping Age of Rebellion will include some additional options, and not just reprint that section of EotE without adding anything.

Hoping, but not expecting, mind you. Guess I'll find out in a couple of days, assuming the book is at GenCon.

I am hoping Age of Rebellion will include some additional options, and not just reprint that section of EotE without adding anything.

Hoping, but not expecting, mind you. Guess I'll find out in a couple of days, assuming the book is at GenCon.

I wouldn't be surprised to see more detailed space combat rules in AoR.

This has all been fantastic. I sat down with the player (happens to be my wife)///

My wife is also in my Star Wars game. I don't think I could have married someone who didn't share my most important passion.

Isn't it amazing how many wives are actually interested in this game? Mine enjoys this system and Fate (Dresden) but tends to get bored with many of the others.

Are you also rolling opposed pilot checks each round? In the skill section they discuss this as positioning (don't have the book handy to reference page numbers and specific text).

It has worked for my players getting around forward only shield ships. Plus I let them add a boost dice depending on how good the roll is. Now that can work both ways.

This has all been fantastic. I sat down with the player (happens to be my wife)///

My wife is also in my Star Wars game. I don't think I could have married someone who didn't share my most important passion.

Isn't it amazing how many wives are actually interested in this game? Mine enjoys this system and Fate (Dresden) but tends to get bored with many of the others.

It is totally awesome. My wife even makes gaming aids. She made a nice healing rules summary and a custom character sheet.

I am hoping Age of Rebellion will include some additional options, and not just reprint that section of EotE without adding anything.

Hoping, but not expecting, mind you. Guess I'll find out in a couple of days, assuming the book is at GenCon.

I wouldn't be surprised to see more detailed space combat rules in AoR.

Especially since it contains the Ace Pilot specialization and talent tree.

I should sound a note of caution though. Assuming FFG is following the paradigm of its 40K rpg line, we probably won't see much in the way of new core mechanics for combat and vehicles. The combat rules in Rogue Trader & Deathwatch were by and large just a copy-paste from Dark Heresy.

Not new mechanics, but "expanded" may be a better word. There's very little for dogfights, and nothing what-so-ever about capital ship combat (or trench run-style attacks on bigger ships). AoR is about the clash of two mighty armies/navies, so there needs to be rules on how two armies clash, yeah?

-EF

Not new mechanics, but "expanded" may be a better word. There's very little for dogfights, and nothing what-so-ever about capital ship combat (or trench run-style attacks on bigger ships). AoR is about the clash of two mighty armies/navies, so there needs to be rules on how two armies clash, yeah?

-EF

The conflict might be about the clash of mightly armies, but the action of the RPG is almost certainly going to focus on small skirmishes. Some may be on foot, some may use vehicles, some may even use capital ships (very rarely), but the Rebellion really avoided big stand-up fights until the Battle of Endor (where it had little choice), so it's quite possible that mass battle rules (planetside and space) might wait for a suppliment (especially a career suppliment if one of the careers is based on being an Admiral/General).

Not new mechanics, but "expanded" may be a better word. There's very little for dogfights, and nothing what-so-ever about capital ship combat (or trench run-style attacks on bigger ships). AoR is about the clash of two mighty armies/navies, so there needs to be rules on how two armies clash, yeah?

-EF

May I suggest http://fanggrip.wordpress.com/2013/07/25/quick-dirty-cinematic-warfare/ until there is something official?

Not new mechanics, but "expanded" may be a better word. There's very little for dogfights, and nothing what-so-ever about capital ship combat (or trench run-style attacks on bigger ships). AoR is about the clash of two mighty armies/navies, so there needs to be rules on how two armies clash, yeah?

-EF

May I suggest http://fanggrip.wordpress.com/2013/07/25/quick-dirty-cinematic-warfare/ until there is something official?

Thanks! I'll have to look at that on my next break!

-EF

Hey guys I need help! I'm running my first session tomorrow (have years and years experience with DnD, Exalted, Vampire). I want to have some exciting space encounters! My fear is the group just pushes a button when the enemy is detected on their scanners and poof there in hyperspace. I personally think it should take atleast a few rounds for the hyperdrive to kick in but one of my players, who knows way more than I do about Star Wars, claims it happens in an instant and there is nothing I can do about it! Suggestions please? Thanks!

Hey guys I need help! I'm running my first session tomorrow (have years and years experience with DnD, Exalted, Vampire). I want to have some exciting space encounters! My fear is the group just pushes a button when the enemy is detected on their scanners and poof there in hyperspace. I personally think it should take atleast a few rounds for the hyperdrive to kick in but one of my players, who knows way more than I do about Star Wars, claims it happens in an instant and there is nothing I can do about it! Suggestions please? Thanks!

At the very least it will "take a few moments to get the coordinates from the navicomputer".

I'm interested in various ways folks solve this problem in their campaigns, but one obvious way is to look at the films--in "Empire" most of the plot is driven around the fact that the Falcon's hyperdrive is damaged. This is also used in Escape from Mos Shuuta, where you need to install the right part before you can escape.

In "A New Hope", they get caught in a tractor beam by the Death Star. I'd have to go check the movie again to see why, but when they "escape" the Death Star, they do have that space battle where Luke and Han are shooting the TIE Fighters pursuing them.

In a way it's probably similar to the challenge in Star Trek stories of the transporter beam. It's not dramatic if the characters can always escape danger by transporting back to their ship, so the writers always need to devise a reason why the transporter doesn't work--an ion storm, magnetic interference, malfunctions, etc.

Another way is to balance whether the characters want to escape at all. If you can construct your stories in such a way that whatever the characters desperately want or need is on the other side of a bunch of TIE Fighters or other enemy ships, then for them to flee into hyperspace would mean they wouldn't attain their objectives.

Like in Serenity, the ship needs to travel "through" Reaver space to get to Miranda (and for some reason they can't take a different path and go around, as though space is 2-dimensional ), and again they NEED to reach the transmitter at the end with the data they're trying to transmit, so they HAVE to travel through the Alliance ships when pursued by the Reavers.

Plus, not every adventure might need to have a space battle--to keep it fresh, you can mix it up between fighters chasing their ship as they try to escape, and throw in other elements used a lot in Star Wars, like giant space monsters or other 'atmospheric' conditions in space, like the asteroid field.

Nebulas, asteroid fields, magnetic storms, ion radiation fields, all these things could be used to make it tough on the PCs ship to go into hyperspace. You might need to move through the asteroid field or magnetic storm before you can safely make the jump, but the enemy fighters are right behind you and you've got to fight them.

Remember that although there are several great chase/battle scenes in Star Wars where the characters are trying to escape from the enemy, there are many where the characters have to fight through the enemy to get where they're going!

Just some ideas, hope this helps!