Hey guys I need help! I'm running my first session tomorrow (have years and years experience with DnD, Exalted, Vampire). I want to have some exciting space encounters! My fear is the group just pushes a button when the enemy is detected on their scanners and poof there in hyperspace. I personally think it should take atleast a few rounds for the hyperdrive to kick in but one of my players, who knows way more than I do about Star Wars, claims it happens in an instant and there is nothing I can do about it! Suggestions please? Thanks!

They have to calculate the jump to hyperspace first. That can happen at the speed of plot or have them make a astrogation check with setback (because they're doing it quickly). Alternatively just put the bad guys between them and where they want to go.

Back on the original topic the piloting space skill in the core book states during a space conflict pilots may often jockey for position to determine which shields face the enemy and which weapons may be brought to bear. When opponents try to negate these efforts an opposed piloting space check is used

To me that sounds very much like an opposed piloting roll every turn to apply while in a dogfight.

That's exactly what Gain the Advantage is/does...

Back on the original topic the piloting space skill in the core book states during a space conflict pilots may often jockey for position to determine which shields face the enemy and which weapons may be brought to bear. When opponents try to negate these efforts an opposed piloting space check is used

To me that sounds very much like an opposed piloting roll every turn to apply while in a dogfight.

This is exactly what Gain the Advantage is, and it has a Speed requirement of 4+, which was the crux of my original problem.

This is exactly what Gain the Advantage is, and it has a Speed requirement of 4+, which was the crux of my original problem.

Fair enough. But slow ships generally don't/can't dogfight. Picture the difference between fighter plans and B52s during WWII. Allied and Axis fighter planes could dogfight each other. But the bombers were too slow and unmaneuverable to dogfight.

But they can still do Evasive Maneuvers and Stay on Target and such (as long as they are at least Speed 3 vehicles).

This is exactly what Gain the Advantage is, and it has a Speed requirement of 4+, which was the crux of my original problem.

Fair enough. But slow ships generally don't/can't dogfight. Picture the difference between fighter plans and B52s during WWII. Allied and Axis fighter planes could dogfight each other. But the bombers were too slow and unmaneuverable to dogfight.

But they can still do Evasive Maneuvers and Stay on Target and such (as long as they are at least Speed 3 vehicles).

No arguing from me. That's exactly what she was doing, only her 4G2Y Piloting skill was never rolled the entire combat, since those are both Maneuvers and not Actions.

I think it stemmed from the misconception that by putting a Pilot Specialization under the Smuggler Class that a Smuggler would be expected to actually roll dice in a space combat in a freighter.

Back on the original topic the piloting space skill in the core book states during a space conflict pilots may often jockey for position to determine which shields face the enemy and which weapons may be brought to bear. When opponents try to negate these efforts an opposed piloting space check is used

To me that sounds very much like an opposed piloting roll every turn to apply while in a dogfight.

This is exactly what Gain the Advantage is, and it has a Speed requirement of 4+, which was the crux of my original problem.

I think we are all forgetting what Gain the Advantage does, and that is to negate setback the penalty for Evasive Maneuvers. Stay on Target is the opposite of Evasive Maneuvers, it gives your gunners a boost, but also any ship targeting you.

So back to the original topic, if you pilot is bored with fly/move/drive, have him narrate how he is flying, and give him a check based on what he wants to do, and the net result will tell you have effective(if at all) it was.

I think it stemmed from the misconception that by putting a Pilot Specialization under the Smuggler Class that a Smuggler would be expected to actually roll dice in a space combat in a freighter.

Well, being able to do all those neat new tricks is just a single upgrade away. But yeah, in a slow, cumbersone hauler, there's not much fancy trickers available. I trecommend upgrading the frieghter so their skills can start to shine.

But even in boring ol' Speed 3 freighter there's rolls to be made by a pilot. The various Full Throttles get you going so you can potentially outrun someone else. Those have a check requirement. Brilliant Evasion is a check also.

Or get on that navicomp using Galaxy Mapper and hurry up with those coordinates. Then jump to safety.

Thanks for those who helped give me some ideas! I really apperciate it and love the environmental effects. One last follow up question, can you go into hyperspace from a planets atmosphere? I believe you can't and remeber the book covering briefly about how long it takes to fly from a planet surface to space for a suitable jump location.

Back on the original topic the piloting space skill in the core book states during a space conflict pilots may often jockey for position to determine which shields face the enemy and which weapons may be brought to bear. When opponents try to negate these efforts an opposed piloting space check is used

To me that sounds very much like an opposed piloting roll every turn to apply while in a dogfight.

This is exactly what Gain the Advantage is, and it has a Speed requirement of 4+, which was the crux of my original problem.

Actually there are differences in each, gain the advantage does allow you to choose which side of the target you hit. Piloting says you get to choose on which side you ​get hit as well as which weapons you can bring to bear. Piloting makes no mention of speed limitation either. They may be similar but the descriptions are definitey different. They could provide conflicting results though if the standard piloting check allows the defender to choose where he gets hit, and gain the advantage allows the attacker the same choice, inwhich case I would allow gain the advantage to overrule , since IMO the maneuver would override the opposed check.

Piloting says you get to choose on which side you ​get hit as well as which weapons you can bring to bear.

If I recall correctly, barring Gain the Advantage, ships of Size 4 or smaller always get to choose where they take the hit.

Piloting says you get to choose on which side you ​get hit as well as which weapons you can bring to bear.

If I recall correctly, barring Gain the Advantage, ships of Size 4 or smaller always get to choose where they take the hit.

Nope, they just have 2 zones instead of 4

Piloting says you get to choose on which side you ​get hit as well as which weapons you can bring to bear.

If I recall correctly, barring Gain the Advantage, ships of Size 4 or smaller always get to choose where they take the hit.

Nope, they just have 2 zones instead of 4

"When attacking a ship of silhouette size 4 or lower, the defender chooses which defense zone the attack hits." pg 235, paragraph 2.

"In addition, the pilot also chooses which defense zone he hits with his attack." - Gain the Advantage Action, page 234, paragraph 3.

So yes, CCarlson101, you recall correctly.

My bad i missed that one which brings me back to the contradiction on page 116 paragraph 5

During a space conflict, pilots may often jockey for position to determine which shields face the enemy andwhich weapons may be brought to bear. When opponents attempt to negate these efforts, the winner is identified through an opposed piloting space check.

As for gain the advantage ive not argued against its benefit, its just that its different from the skill listed above, ie piloting states that the winner of the opposed check gets to choose where they get hit. Gain the advantage allows the attacker to choose. 2 different definitions ie this opposed check listedon page 116 is not the same as gain the advantage.

Thanks for those who helped give me some ideas! I really apperciate it and love the environmental effects. One last follow up question, can you go into hyperspace from a planets atmosphere? I believe you can't and remeber the book covering briefly about how long it takes to fly from a planet surface to space for a suitable jump location.

There may be something somewhere about it specifically, but I don't think you could--the way Han describes it in A New Hope, where the computer has to plot courses so they don't run into asteroids or planets, I think that would apply to atmosphere too.

Piloting says you get to choose on which side you ​get hit as well as which weapons you can bring to bear.

If I recall correctly, barring Gain the Advantage, ships of Size 4 or smaller always get to choose where they take the hit.

Nope, they just have 2 zones instead of 4

"When attacking a ship of silhouette size 4 or lower, the defender chooses which defense zone the attack hits." pg 235, paragraph 2.

"In addition, the pilot also chooses which defense zone he hits with his attack." - Gain the Advantage Action, page 234, paragraph 3.

So yes, CCarlson101, you recall correctly.

This is one rule I'm not particularly fond of. It makes the ships having two zones completely redundant; every time there's space combat everyone will just pump all their shields into one zone and elect that it's the one to be hit each time. Might as well do away with the concept of zones entirely.

Isn't it just meant to reflect the agility of a vessel so small?

It still applies to larger vessels, right?

Piloting says you get to choose on which side you ​get hit as well as which weapons you can bring to bear.

If I recall correctly, barring Gain the Advantage, ships of Size 4 or smaller always get to choose where they take the hit.

Nope, they just have 2 zones instead of 4

"When attacking a ship of silhouette size 4 or lower, the defender chooses which defense zone the attack hits." pg 235, paragraph 2.

"In addition, the pilot also chooses which defense zone he hits with his attack." - Gain the Advantage Action, page 234, paragraph 3.

So yes, CCarlson101, you recall correctly.

This is one rule I'm not particularly fond of. It makes the ships having two zones completely redundant; every time there's space combat everyone will just pump all their shields into one zone and elect that it's the one to be hit each time. Might as well do away with the concept of zones entirely.

That's what Gain the Advantage is used for. When the ship goes "double front" you can GtA and attack the rear with your shot.

Piloting says you get to choose on which side you ​get hit as well as which weapons you can bring to bear.

If I recall correctly, barring Gain the Advantage, ships of Size 4 or smaller always get to choose where they take the hit.

Nope, they just have 2 zones instead of 4

"When attacking a ship of silhouette size 4 or lower, the defender chooses which defense zone the attack hits." pg 235, paragraph 2.

"In addition, the pilot also chooses which defense zone he hits with his attack." - Gain the Advantage Action, page 234, paragraph 3.

So yes, CCarlson101, you recall correctly.

This is one rule I'm not particularly fond of. It makes the ships having two zones completely redundant; every time there's space combat everyone will just pump all their shields into one zone and elect that it's the one to be hit each time. Might as well do away with the concept of zones entirely.

That's a good tactic, right up until an enemy Gains Advantage, and gets to choose one of your unshielded zones.

If neither ship is maneuverable enough to Gain Advantage, then *of course* you pump your shields into whatever zone happens to be facing the incoming fire, and maneuver to keep that side facing the enemy. That whole plan goes to pot when you're facing starfighters, though. They *are* maneuverable enough to be able to get a shot in on another side before you can react by maneuvering and/or redirecting shield power.

Piloting says you get to choose on which side you ​get hit as well as which weapons you can bring to bear.

If I recall correctly, barring Gain the Advantage, ships of Size 4 or smaller always get to choose where they take the hit.

Nope, they just have 2 zones instead of 4

"When attacking a ship of silhouette size 4 or lower, the defender chooses which defense zone the attack hits." pg 235, paragraph 2.

"In addition, the pilot also chooses which defense zone he hits with his attack." - Gain the Advantage Action, page 234, paragraph 3.

So yes, CCarlson101, you recall correctly.

This is one rule I'm not particularly fond of. It makes the ships having two zones completely redundant; every time there's space combat everyone will just pump all their shields into one zone and elect that it's the one to be hit each time. Might as well do away with the concept of zones entirely.

That's what Gain the Advantage is used for. When the ship goes "double front" you can GtA and attack the rear with your shot.

Although, as written, only the pilot of the vessel gaining the advantage gets the benefits - weapons fired by the co-pilot and/or gunners do not.

Thanks for those who helped give me some ideas! I really apperciate it and love the environmental effects. One last follow up question, can you go into hyperspace from a planets atmosphere? I believe you can't and remeber the book covering briefly about how long it takes to fly from a planet surface to space for a suitable jump location.

I wouldn't think so. Without a book nearby to check I can't be certian, but I'll do a Knowledge (EU) check and claim that the hyperdrives in ships will not function while inside a gravity well. That gravity can be from a planet (and if you're in atmo, you're in the gravity well) or it can come from an Interdictor Class Cruiser, or maybe a gravity mine. But if you in atmo, your hyperdrive might as well be a sabaac deck for all the good it's doing you. If the rules in the book say otherwise, they are pretty silly.

Piloting says you get to choose on which side you ​get hit as well as which weapons you can bring to bear.

If I recall correctly, barring Gain the Advantage, ships of Size 4 or smaller always get to choose where they take the hit.

Nope, they just have 2 zones instead of 4

"When attacking a ship of silhouette size 4 or lower, the defender chooses which defense zone the attack hits." pg 235, paragraph 2.

"In addition, the pilot also chooses which defense zone he hits with his attack." - Gain the Advantage Action, page 234, paragraph 3.

So yes, CCarlson101, you recall correctly.

This is one rule I'm not particularly fond of. It makes the ships having two zones completely redundant; every time there's space combat everyone will just pump all their shields into one zone and elect that it's the one to be hit each time. Might as well do away with the concept of zones entirely.

That's what Gain the Advantage is used for. When the ship goes "double front" you can GtA and attack the rear with your shot.

Although, as written, only the pilot of the vessel gaining the advantage gets the benefits - weapons fired by the co-pilot and/or gunners do not.

Sure, because the window opens up for a short period of time before the target can react. Your gunners don't necessarily know when, or even *if* that opening is going to happen, and they don't get to control when it does.

Out of curiosity, how many ships in the book are fast enough to Gain Advantage, and have manned turrets? I dont' suspect there's going to be a whole lot of overlap there.

Thanks for those who helped give me some ideas! I really apperciate it and love the environmental effects. One last follow up question, can you go into hyperspace from a planets atmosphere? I believe you can't and remeber the book covering briefly about how long it takes to fly from a planet surface to space for a suitable jump location.

There may be something somewhere about it specifically, but I don't think you could--the way Han describes it in A New Hope, where the computer has to plot courses so they don't run into asteroids or planets, I think that would apply to atmosphere too.

When you're within an atmosphere, you're still well within the gravity well of a planet, where the safety failsafes would prevent the hyperdrive from kicking in. The spacetime distortion from the gravity field would be too great for the astrogation to get an accurate read on a course. Granted, this is fantasy, and real-universe physics doesn't really come into play.

In the official canon, its is called the MSD or "Minimum Safe Distance" as the closest proximity to a gravity well that a ship could enter hyperspace. It wouldn't be within the atmosphere...

Out of curiosity, how many ships in the book are fast enough to Gain Advantage, and have manned turrets? I dont' suspect there's going to be a whole lot of overlap there.

Stock? Two: The BTL-S3 Y-Wing and the GAT-12H Skipray Blastboat. Both of these have a Silhouette of 4 or lower and stock speed of 4 and have (a) turret(s). Anything else with both a turret and a silhouette of 4 or under has a speed of 3 or less, which means they'd need a High-output ion turbine to gain that kind of maneuverability. There's one capital ship that has a speed of 4 (DP20 Gunship), but it's too big to "Gain the Advantage."

Ive sent a message to customer service to clarify why there are three different apparent rules to determine who decides to get hit where. I suspect that silhouette 4 or less will chose unless overridden by skill check or gain the advantage. I also suspect that the opposed skill check will get overridden by gain the advantage. This being correct, there is still a requirement for piloting skill in a dogfight.

Trying evasive maneuvers or keeping the ship steady under fire requires rolls.

That's the problem - it doesn't.

I completely agree with the OP and I think that anything more than basic flying requires a piloting check of some degree.