felkor said:

The Steel Rain doesn't have to reload because it CANT BE reloaded. You can't reload limited ammo weapons. I believe he was trying to say that if the rockets were not limited ammo, they would have to be reloaded after firing. How many rockets were fired is immaterial. If they were not limited ammo they could not be a volley weapon. Who would ever fire less than all four if the ammo wasn't limited?

Having said everything else, I do have to say that in our friendly games, the Nikita will not have to reload. It would be overpriced at best. Borderline useless.

We all have valid grievances here. The question is, will any one listen and correct these errors? I have been gaming for thirty years and I have never seen so many inconsistencies in a set of rules. It is to bad the core rules are great.
They jacked up warfare, maybe they are determined to do the same to tactics only slower.

Ok, this is getting silly now (and part of the reason I frequent this forum less and less). There are no errors. This has been a rule for nearly a year now, no one took the time to notice. And get your 'they' straight. FFG develops the rules for Warfare (fantastic system btw, not jacked up in the slightest), Dust Games develops Tactics. FFG works with DG on these kinds of rules discussion. If I get an answer back from Olivier, I'm sure it's going to say the same thing because it's in the core rules. The only thing they changed was to allow the limited ammo rule to supersede reload.

I don't think you guys realize how broken the Nikita would be without reload and the added mobility the chopper gives. 40 points would be way underpriced. And when you call it useless with reload, I have to chuckle, as an allied player there isn't much more useless than the Steel Rain.

If you call Steel Rain useless you have failed to use it correctly in the hands of a skilled player it is a weapon of great power.

Dakkon426 said:

Agreed, Steel rain is the walker I most fear to face with its almost guaranteed medium walker kill without needing to sustain fire on turn one or two, has earn't its points already and then you have the auto-kill with its mortar when it gets closer - one of the best walkers in the game. And the rules cards are inconsistant, you can't have reload on one card and not another, thats what causes confusion. Don't have an issue with Steel Rain though, card or rules.

Major Mishap said:

Especially if that person has the Heavy Command Squad where you can use the Ammo Dump skill so basically steal rain gets to shoot its rockets twice. Yeah that's a lot of fun dealing with that thing, NOT!! And even all of that its still got its Mortar and 30 Cal to do some more damage for only 38 points. Nikita has no extra weapon lines and has two completely worthless skills for Artillery in Assault and Air Lift for 40 points. I have no idea how anyone can argue that Nikita is not way overpriced at 40 points

smith2332 said:

blkdymnd said:

So why would I want to transport my artillery piece that has unlimited range closer to the enemy?

You know I am not wasting my time repeating myself.

Given your above statements I think you and Oliver are smoken crack!

Panzer soldier said:

Yep, got nothing for you either. I'll go back to actually reading my rulebook while I smoke my crack…

The real problem is that changing an already existing rule (reload on Lothar) into other rule, without any need is just stupid and confusing. There was no need tho remove the reload from the card. That's just silly and has no sense.

The missing ability was probably just another error than deliberate.

The rules say artillery needs to reload on page 14, and refernces the rules for special weapons starting on page 24 regarding the Reload action.

[Weapon]: Reload on page 21 specifies artillery often requires Reload, which indicates not all artillery does require a Reload. That contradicts the rule from page 14, but in theory, page 24 would work to clarify the disparity.

Reloadable Weapons on page 24 specifies weapons that are Reloadable are specified on the bottom of their card. If an artillery weapon requires itself to be reloaded, and does not have the [Weapon]: Reload ability, then the rules as written would mean those artillery weapons without [Weapon]: Reload could not Reload , and so become effectively limited ammunition weapons, as they could not use the required skill to Reload.

The Lothar has the required skill.

The Steel Rain has Reload for the Petard Mortar, but not for the 4.2" rockets. The fluff regarding the 4.2" rockets indicates they are too large to be reloaded during a battle, but now the NCO Command Squad contradicts that fluff, by allowing a full reload without requiring a Reload action.

The Artillery rules, as written, with the suggested requirement for always needing to Reload even when [Weapon]: Reload is not listed, do not negate the need for the Steel Rain to spend a Reload action if it does not fire all of its 4.2" rockets in one attack. The Artillery rules, as written, do not give any exception, nor do any of the rules for the Steel Rain, as they only reference its inability to reload its limited ammunition supply, so ably contradicted by the NCO Command Squad. While many players use the 4.2" rockets for a massive strike, I have seen players use it successfully for multiple attacks, as well. The Artillery rules do not specify why the Reload would be required, only that the Reload is required, as referenced starting on page 24.

If the rules from page 14 are combined with the rules from page 21 and 24, the Steel Rain can fire its 4.2" rockets as it wishes, without the need to Reload, as it is not an artillery weapon that requires Reload per page 24, and is excepted from requiring a Reload by page 21.

That consideration would make the inclusion of Reload on the Lothat's Nebelwerfer appropriate, but also show any new artillery class weapons as needing [Weapon]: Reload, or being able to fire every turn without Reload, or only once even without limited ammunition due to their inability to Reload.

Tie that with reality, where automatic loading artillery exists to match other, slow loading artillery. Fast loading artillery that is hand loaded also exists, and has existed since before WW2, so having other artillery weapons that do not require Reload would make far more sense.