Jesus, Allah and the Dark Powers!

Rule is rule but it doesn't apply to the Nikita cause Nikita's card doesn't physically show RELOAD!

Same like Steel Rain. So hard to understand that?

Ok, instead of going round and pointlessly, I have a message to Olivier Zamfirescu who is one of the lead designers at Dust Games. He said there did seem to be mix-up somewhere and he will investigate and get back to me. I'm fine with whichever way it goes, just will be nice to have a hopefully definitive answer.

blkdymnd said:

And while you are at it, get him to post any cards before they go to the printers and let somebody proof read them.

I'm totally with you.

Man as usual the rules are as clear as mud. This I can say without a shadow of a doubt, if Imade half the mistakes these guys do I would have been fired along time ago.
If whoever is responsible for publishing this stuff had half a brain. They would prepublish this stuff to us the players here on line. At least this way we could point these errors out for them. Not to mention the completely brain dead stuff.

Now here is a question I have always wondered about, but have been afraid to ask

.
On page 14 of the revised core rules it states, “After artillery weapons fire, the unit must reload before it can fire that weapon again. This costs one SKILL action.
Now on page 25 under INDIRECT SHOT. It states that, “I direct shots cost the unit both of its actions for the round.

So does this mean the unit may fire indirectly every other round?

Panzer soldier said:

Yes, you are correct. That's actually a pretty clear cut rule.

Yeah, it's a pretty central mechanic to holding back those devilish indirect shots.

Hmm so i'm thinking, does Lother has a reload action on the new cards after the cost change? Or did it happened before the RCS?

Lothar always had the Reload skill.

Drat! I was afraid of that. I reread the rules do to this discussion. I am afraid I may owe some opponents an apology.

As far as the Nikita goes. The card clearly lists the range line of the Quad 120mm mortar as A. So I think given all the facts it's clear that it has to reload.
Granted the assault skill and transport skills are completely wasted on this walker, but it is still one of the best ranged weapons the SSU has.

Well I guess this sums it up, seems a little crazy to me cause now the SSU Artillery is worthless in my mind for the point costs, cost more then Luthar and has less firepower so it just seems like a complet waste in my mind cause no buddy cares about its air lift ability or assault cause its artillery. Below is the answer I got from FFG

Rule Question:
Does all Artillery units in the game need to reload after firing? Only units that have the Reload on the cards need to Reload, is that correct?

All Artillery weapons must reload after firing, regardless of whether "[Weapon Name]: Reload" is specified on the unit card.

That is such bull. So the Steel Rain has TWO weapons that need to reload, even though the 4 rockets are all there, ready to fire at any time? Why didn't it come with 2 Reload tokens, then?

That's the nail to the coffin…

Anyway IMO there is a liitle point to invest in Nikita at the moment.

I don't use the Steel Rain much anyway, it's mostly useless compared to the other allied walkers. But again, it's right there in the revised core rules, not sure why that was so confusing.

Loophole Master said:

Just to clarify Steel Rain is different, this is from Cyclone Page 5 so you don't need to waste a reload because it comes into the battlefield loaded with all of its rockets and you cant reload the rockets.

At the beginning of the game place one “LOADED” token close to the Lothar (its Nebelwerfer are loaded) and to the Steel Rain (its Petard is loaded). The Steel Rain doesn’t need
any “LOADED” tokens for its 4 rockets, since they are single use only, and the limited
quantity is marked on its unit card (four boxes you can check off).

Some weapons follow the reloading rule but they are not artillery weapons.

You’ll notice that the Petard on the Steel Rain is not an artillery weapon. It follows some
special rules we’re going to see in the following pages, but its range isn’t A.

Take a look at the Steel Rain: you
can see that its 4 rockets are artillery weapons, but they come in
a limited quantity. In fact, on the
unit card for this robot, close to
the name of its weapon, there are
4 small boxes you can check off.
The rockets are actually too big
to be reloaded on the battlefield.
The Steel Rain only carries four of
them for the whole battle.

So, artillery weapons may follow
the reload rule: just because their
range is A, doesn’t always mean
they can be reloaded during the
game

Cyclone:

"Artillery weapons may follow the reload rule."

Zach:

" All Artillery weapons must reload after firing."

I don't really trust any Dust Tactics rules clarifications that come from FFG.

I've emailed Dust Studios - I'd be interested to hear what they say.

Sometimes I think nobody drives this train…

Do you think does FFG have any general idea for a game or everything is released 'as they go' without play testing etc?

From the Revised Core Set Rulebook page 14, last bullet on the page:

"After artillery weapons fire, the unit must reload before it can fire that weapon again. This costs one Skill action. (see “Special Weapons” on page 24)."

Reloadable Weapons Page 25:

"While most weapons in Dust Tactics store their bullets inside automatic cartridge magazines, some ammunition (such as artillery shells) is too bulky for that.

Weapons are indicated as reloadable weapons at the bottom of the unit card. Reloadable weapons begin the game loaded. Place the included “Loaded” token on the unit card to indicate that the weapon is loaded.

When the unit fires this weapon, remove the token from the unit’s card to indicate that the weapon is empty. To reload (and replace the token on the
unit card), the unit must perform one Skill action. A unit can fire and reload its weapon during the same round, which would use both the unit’s actions (see “[Weapon Name]: Reload” on page 21)."

From Reload on Page 21:

[Weapon Name]: RELOAD (Skill)
A unit with this skill must spend more time reloading before it can fire that weapon again – artillery weapons often fall into this category. A unit performs one Skill action to reload its weapon. Place the included “Loaded” token on the unit card to indicate that the weapon is loaded. After performing this action, the unit can fire the weapon. At the beginning of each game, all weapons are loaded. See “Reloadable Weapons” on page 25 for more details.

The only other rules I could find that referenced the Steel Rain's Rockets was Volley Blast on page 24:

Volley Blast (A/X – B/X – C/X – …)
This combat value represents limited-ammo weapons that are increasingly more powerful the more munitions the unit chooses to launch. To apply this type of damage, roll “A” dice when spending one ammo (roll “B” dice when spending two ammo, roll “C” dice when spending three ammo, etc.) and inflict “X” damage to the target for each result. This combat value can span across multiple armor classes, so carefully check the weapon line to see which armor classes this weapon affects.

Example: A Steel Rain takes a direct shot at a full squad of Heavy Laser Grenadiers. It fires two 4.2” Rockets and marks the boxes on his unit card to indicate that he spent limited ammo. The Allied player rolls six dice and obtains three results. The Axis player removes all three miniatures as casualties.

Unfortunately in the Revised book I don't see any other rules specifically exempting the 4.2" rockets from the rule requiring Artillery weapons to reload after firing.

LoTech said:

Its going to be added to the FAQ see below, thanks

Hi Brett,

It isn't necessary to list "[Weapon Name]: Reload" for artillery weapons on unit cards, since rules for artillery weapons are explicitly stated on page 14 of the revised Core Rulebook: "After artillery weapons fire, the unit must reload before it can fire that weapon again. This costs one SKILL action."

Many unit cards include "[Weapon Name]: Reload" for the unit's artillery weapons for the sake of convenience. This is not the case for the SSU's "Nikita," and the issue will likely be clarified in the next FAQ update, since we've had a few people write in with questions to that effect. Ultimately, however, the Nikita's Dual Quad 120 mm Mortar is an artillery weapon, and it must follow the rules as they appear in the Core Rulebook.

As for the Allies' "Steel Rain," it's 4.2" Rocket is an artillery weapon. However, it is also a limited ammo weapon. This means that the Steel Rain can expend any or all of the ammo for the 4.2" Rocket in a single attack. When the ammo for this weapon runs out, the weapon has no more ammunition left to fire. If it were not a limited ammo weapon, the rules for artillery would still apply, and the Steel Rain would have to spend an action to reload the 4.2" Rockets after its ammunition was depleted.

Hopefully this has helped to clarify things.

All the best,

Zach Tewalthomas
Assoc. Miniatures Games Producer
Fantasy Flight Games

Man, what a clusterf***. So ALL artillery weapons need to reload. Except for the Steel Rain. Even though there's no rule exempting limited ammo weapons from reloading…

Here's an idea: simply write RELOAD on the cards of the units that need to reload and be done with it. Genius, eh?

Loophole Master said:

That would be way to easy Loophole.

Anyway I have a question to the Dust Tactics lead designer(s):

1. Why the Nikita cost 40 points when Lothar has better stats and is cheaper?

2. Why the air-lifted SSU walkers were chosen so poorly? What I mean 2 of them (Nikita and Nastasia) has range 6 and more so they don't have to be air-lifted and on the other hand 2 'normal' walkers (Nadya and Natalya) really and truly would demand air-lift as they are short-ranged and slow (without FAST nor ASSAULT skill)?

Is the play-testing really exist in FFG?

Loophole Master said:

It's also just dumb to have a rule that "all artillery weapons are reload weapons." Why go out of your way to limit your choices in how to design weapons for future units?

This sounds similar to the changed AP value on the Loth Card, where they're just not willing to admit there's a typo on the card.

daniello_s said:

Good luck with that, I've never got a 'rules design' question answered. And no, there is no playtesting, common sense or proofreading at FFG, I don't know how thay are still in business. This is the first FFG game I've invested in, are the rest like DT & DW?

I've just sent them those questions and we'll see… Anyway I've invested a bit in DT but ore and more I'm willing to sell whole lot as FFG doesn't seem to care about this game.