This has been an interesting thread to read. It reminds me a lot of when M:tG went to Revised and a person would have thought the world was ending to hear the talk in local game shops. The same thing happened again when dual lands were taken out, and so on and so forth.

From what I gather, this game's version of Moxes and Dark Rituals, Ancestral Recall and similar nonsense are being taken out. The first turn wins, infinite draw decks, infinite catapult, etc., etc. were never good for the health of Magic, and breaking up those kinds of things sounds good to me.

I'm loving the idea of a fresh start with decks gradually becoming more focused over the the months. There may not be amazing combos to begin with, but I think I'm really going to enjoy seeing the game evolve.

Pandafarmer said:

Also, I'd like to point out that some of the above quotes in Marius's post credited to myself are actually from another's posting... just to avoid confusion

Yeah, I'm sorry, but this forum software isn't ideal when quoting multiple sources. :/ Also, Jitte is the awesome win!

>This has been an interesting thread to read. It reminds me a lot of when M:tG went to Revised and a person would have thought the world was ending to hear the talk in local game shops. The same thing happened again when dual lands were taken out, and so on and so forth.

>From what I gather, this game's version of Moxes and Dark Rituals, Ancestral Recall and similar nonsense are being taken out. The first turn wins, infinite draw decks, infinite catapult, etc., etc. were never good for the health of Magic, and breaking up those kinds of things sounds good to me.

From someone who was there from the beggining in MTG, who owned those moxs and lotus's, and was there for revised and beyond, this is NOT an applicable analogy. Which is the point I was trying to make above. This is a systematic retardation of the game. Entire strategies and decktypes are being made, "in essence" illegal (not quite the right words...but I cant think of better). The key is to look at the new (orwellian phrased) "competative play" programs. FFG has taken this to the level of "EVERYONE must win" - therefore strategy is being removed and "random" is being put in place. All of the new metrics for the games have one thing in common - "Random" game play. You could be the worlds best COC player ever, with a deck that is built from months of testing, the best you will ever get in any given match is 60/40 chance of winning. - which of course is the point. If you want to see the experiament for yourself, then skim the posts (though it would be best done including the old boards). Newbs, and non competative players post endlessly how much they love it (people who by definition dont evaluate the game based on strategic merits, and, being new to the game, have no idea what they are doing) - whereas anyone with any experiance at the game - or who plays for the intellectual challenge....well, most are gone and the rest will simply say "I just log in occaisionally to see how stupid it gets". I certainly can understand the "fear of change/upheaval" in the game, and that is absolutely not the case here.

>I'm loving the idea of a fresh start with decks gradually becoming more focused over the the months. There may not be amazing combos to begin with, but I think I'm really going to enjoy seeing the game evolve.

As I stated earlier...its not evolve - its devolve. Deck types are being systematically removed (not broken cards...entire TYPES of strategy). In their place are being added "FFG [APPROVED] deck types". Read the deckbuilding section on the great polar experiament...while one of the decks used was a really bad build, it shows how patenetly useless the new strategies are (And I cant emphisize enough the word "Random"..its just card flipping).

The_Rip-Off said:

The_Rip-Off said:

If we look what is removed until now is the Rituals (= almost guaranteed win if you have them in your opening hand, thus random) and The Rip-Off (Random win.)

Now, if we compare between combo decks in MtG: 4 cards out of 60 for any given card versus 3 cards out of 50 for any given card, it means that in MtG a playset is 6.6% of a deck and in CoC it's 6.0% of a deck. Offset this by the fact that you draw 8 cards in CoC for your opening hand versus 7 in MtG, and the fact that you draw 2 cards per turn in CoC vs 1 in MtG, and the fact that combo is still a very popular decktype in MtG today, as well as control, I would say that going over these statistics CoC still does combo better then MtG, and combo and/or control should be able to thrive. It just wont be the only option any more.

The_Rip-Off said:

By your theory, anyone just slapping a pile together with all cards with the term "polar" on it should have a 40% chance of winning, so, by showing that it is impossible you have proven that your initial premise is flawed. On some level, maybe, the learning curve went from:

___ __
/ to _/ ... but I think you can still make a combo deck that goes totally unopposed against entry-level to even regional level decks (having played some regionals in a few meta's.) Maybe the lower level events have become more "accessable" but the Worlds Level tournaments would still have mr. Byakhee deck for breakfast.

I apologize if I misunderstood. "Random" can be a valid build in some games. If it permeates all decks by default, or there is no way to manipulate in to your favor (pure randomness for randomnesses sake), I can understand the bitterness.

Interesting how we got from "So long" to here, but I'll go with it.

Pandafarmer said:

Cthulhu can't have high level competition & deck building? It's the slow lane or get off the road?

Pandafarmer said:

FFG is not the kind of company that's going to supply promo cards, I don't know where the 1000s of dollars came from.

Pandafarmer said:

Right, cutting out a large player base, like Graham, in the process.

Pandafarmer said:

Pittsburgh. Not Philly. Pittsburgh.

Pandafarmer said:

As was said, it's the World Championship. You bring your best game. You high school football team plays the Patriots, are you going to complain that they're down 52 points in the first quarter? You don't need the 3-4 turn kill, but it was possible by the rules and used.

Pandafarmer said:

A Collectable Card Game. That's the point and nature of the format.

Marius said:

The fact that there were whole themes & card series that did not matter isn't a good thing.

Marius said:

It's more like entering a fencing tournament because you've watched the Three Musketeers and then wondering why you lost.

Marius said:

It's a shame you weren't able to contribute this time around then, I'm worried how much we (the play testers) were listened to.

Pandafarmer said:

... but I can say that the boys and gals over at FFG are VERY busy folks, and while playtesting has always been a sore spot on any game they release, CCGs are always a very difficult thing to work with because of versatility. In the experiences I've had on board game testing, the teams usually get a very small window to catch stuff and when you are analysing a game in a small group, the obvious mistakes are usually caught.

I agree on the short time frame to test things, it should be twice or three time longer. But we can complain about the lack of corrected/errated card reprints after we pointed them out in the spread sheet.

Donald

I believe that Dominion was playable on Brittspielweb (spelling?) a German-based site. If you can speak a little German or recognize symbols, you can play the game on there, as well as several other board games.

Look forward to seeing you again, Graham. Happy new year!

correct spelling seems to be "brettspielwelt". http://www.brettspielwelt.de/

Hello friends,

It is great to hear from you again G. We have all quit playing in PA, and have been dumping our cards for about 10% of the value that we were accustomed to over the last four years. I also wanted to keep this thread on track, focusing on the Nate sucks parts of the thread. I know I will never play or sell the game in my store as long as Nate has anything to do with the game. The game has been unbalanced ever since the beginings, and it has continued to get worse every year. We do love the system of the game, but it has never been implemented properly. So many worthless unplayable cards have been made, and so many overpowered bombs have ruined the competitive tournaments. I explained the history of the broken decks in this game on the old forums, it's a shame the the history of the game was wiped away with the old forums.

The game has far passed the point of no return, and Nate has been given the job of erasing the original version of the game and starting over. Some of you still wonder if there will be a new format... There will be white border only. This is from Nate's mouth at GenCon. You can't keep the game healthy for competitive play without new cards, and the new cards are garbage along side the old broken power cards. So, I do feel bad for the original players that have been here since the start. We still are left with some great memories and friendships here in PA.

New players, be afraid. I was a playtester for Core Set and AP packs 7 through 12. The cards that were submitted to us by Nate were brainless, uncreative, and dull...to put it nicely. Donald, Jim, and I were mindboggled by the uslessness of the cards submitted to us by Nate. We tried to give good possible alternatives for Nate's cards without offending him, but he had no problem offending us with his rude reply about how we were too concerned with changing his cards. He also complained about how we formated our playtesting results rather than give us any thanks. I doubt that Nate will take many of our suggestions for the AP packs. I hope he doesn't; I regret wasting so many hours trying to help him. I did fight hard to save the game, we all did here in PA. We all deserved better. I may post more about bad playtesting experiences in the future.

BTW, The core set was tested with no knowledge of the 3 card copy rule and no knowlege of the white bordered only format, our testing was invalid without that kind of information. The main thing I stressed, after being upset that it was all reprints, was to fix the cards to show current erratas, nice huh?

Lastly, I will look forward to playing Rio Grande's Dominion with you, Graham. It is a good game system that reminds me of the old days of Cthulhu CCG. It is fun finding the best combos in that game. It is not perfect. We have already found some improperly balanced cards, but it has been great for the last four Mondays here. Hope good expansions are in the future plans.

Take care all,

Ron

Very interesting.

Two questions:

Please, someone can ask me a question: how many people play every world tournament? I think that it is important for the thread. Without great changes on the game in the Spain National on 2006 we played about 25 people , on 2007 we were 15 and last year 10 persons (I am climbing positions beeing as bas as usual).

Second: the winners (or good players) on MtG are always the same guys every year?

To Thunder in the east: Would you mind send me a list with you discard deck from Stalheck? Here in Spain Walter, Yop and me adore the deck and we want to play it one time.

Here's the post on broken decks history:

(Now, I'd love to have the nice quotation tag but...)

[Ron wrote]

Hello again,

I have told many people that I would reveal the PA brutal secret tech jump engine decks after Worlds was over. This was before the Worlds cheating scandal ruined my last bit of faith in this game, so it is hard to care enough to post this.

I do want to clear up any questions that the good people on these boards had about the decks. I also want to show how this game continued to be broken and rebroken every year by the PA players. I do not say this to be arrogant. We are lucky enough to have many good players that enjoyed the Cthulhu CCG game system here at my store. This abundance of good players just had to put in the hours of play testing to find the broken decks. Every year there was a deck that would rise above all others usually to the point of brokenness. By broken, I mean that the deck would beat every deck in the meta over 50% of the time while beating most decks 90% of the time.

Cthulhu faction was dominant for the first year winning every tournament and Regional. I was able to develop the broken Rainbow Deck right before the first World Championships. After mass bannings, the Cthulhu based decks won almost every tournament here again, and Cannon played a version to win the second year’s Worlds. The domination of Cthulhu decks was bad at this point, but everything would soon go from bad to worse. Going into the third year, there were two cards that made two good decks into broken decks that would shape the meta. They were Ancient Gold and Glimpse of the Void. Ancient Gold made The Rip Off automatic when drawn and Glimpse was the missing piece that would allow the infinite discard deck to be unbeatable. My infinite discard deck was almost undefeated in all tournaments throughout the third year. It beat almost all decks in the field over 90% of the time. In testing, I literally had over one hundred wins with three loses against a variety of decks, except for the other broken deck, the lottery ticket deck, also known as The Rip Off deck. The no-brainer Rip Off deck would win against any deck in the format when you started off the game with that stupid card. I was everyone’s pick to win that third Worlds, and nothing could stop my deck other then random Rip Off’s. Well, I got Rip Off’d right out. It was not right. My deck was broken and the one card in that other deck was broken. The debate over The Rip Off would soon begin, and we know that ending.

There have always been only one or two viable decks to play in this game at a tournament level, and we were always able to find them and put them through the gauntlet here in PA to prove this point. This year was no different. I developed the first PA combo deck around January of this year, and I named it “History Repeats Itself.” It was beautiful; It went of on the first turn going first often enough to be scary, and on the draw I could go off on the first turn about 20% of the time. After I beat Graham in the finals of an unforgettable tourney here at the store where I overcame a first turn Rip Off, Graham was converted. He offered to help test decks. We talked about how easy it was for the Misk engine to draw the whole deck on the first turn of the game, and Graham called it the Jump Tech Engine. We discussed the fact that adding Bust of Hypnos created an infinite loop of drawing the whole deck with the Shub faction refreshers. Graham came up with a very cool combo for the Hastur version of the deck, and we decided that he would play this version at the European Nationals. One reason that he played this version was because; it was the slowest of the three tuned combo decks using the Jump Engine. We also knew that the cool combo would divert attention away from the real reason for the deck – the Jump Engine. Graham won easily and the deck specifics remained surprisingly secret.

Tom, Don, Graham, and I were all planning on playing the Jump Engine decks at Worlds at this point. The misguided bannings of the rituals did not even hurt the decks other then lowering the first turn combo percent by a small amount. We tested them against everything we could come up with for over three months. They were unstoppable, and then it happened. I decided to make a deck dedicated to the Ithaqua/Y’Golonac about two months before Worlds to test against. Tom and I put it together one night and after testing it was clear that we now had two unbeatable decks. I named the Ithaqua/Y’Golonac deck, “The Lock Deck Monster.” The deck accomplished a first turn lock at almost 30%. These two decks are basically unbeatable and they happen to be completely non interactive and the worst experience to play against, maybe even worse then The Rip Off. At least with The Rip Off, your beating would be over quickly.

The lock deck and the jump deck had a win percentage of about 50% verses each other, so we knew it would be a toss up between us for which deck would win this year’s Worlds. We did not expect that we would see other people with virtually the same deck minus one key card. We also never expected cheating for that matter.

These decks are so good, that you really don’t need to cheat though. I have been testing out the percent of first turn combo out and lock with a stacked deck after it has been shuffled once and cut. The results are unbelievable. The original percent of the time that these decks achieved a first turn winning combo was 20% to 30% with random shuffling. After stacking with one shuffle and cut the percent of achieving a first turn combo rose to 80% to 90%.

Test these decks for yourself. Bash your friends with them. Your friends won’t shuffle your deck, so use the stacking technique just for giggles on them. FFG has declared that the penalty for stacking is just a warning, and at worst a replay of the match you cheated in. So feel free to stack your deck in tourneys too if you would like some guaranteed wins against trusting opponents.

Please don’t be mad at us for keeping our decks secret in an attempt each year to win the World Championship. Donald Hargnett, Tom Capor, James Black, Greg Gan, Graham Hill, and I put in over five hundred total hours of play testing in the last eight months. We kept focus on that one great prize of making a card, and we have always played this game with honor and respect. Here are the best PA Jump Decks, including “History Repeats Itself” and our lock deck known as “The Lock Deck Monster.”

All of the Jump Decks include this core known as the Jump Tech :

4x Adoration of Thoth (most broken card in the game)
4x Unearthing the Ancients
4x Feast or Famine
4x November Whispers
2x Lost History of Herodotus
4x Eldritch Nexus
4x Decrepit Mausoleum
4x Simple Kindness

All versions contain about 12 cards of the secondary faction plus eight tailored cards.

The Shub version:
4x a Time to Reap
4x Basil Elton
4x Glimpse of the Void
Plus:
Jump Tech
3x Historic Discovery
3x Bust of Hypnos
2x Wish for Strength (just to set off Adorations)

The Hastur version:
4x Condemned Theater
4x Legacy of Cassilda
4x Power Drain
Plus:
Jump Tech
3x Unspeakable Research
3x Wish for Strength
2x Secret Research

The Yog version:
4x Shining Trapezohedron
3x Adoration of Upuaut
3x Gathering at the Stones
1x Sanctify the Stone
Plus:
Jump Tech
4x Back to the Vaults
2x Historic Discovery
2x Artifact of the Lost Cities or Dream Messenger
1x Unspeakable Research


Now for The Lock Deck Monster:

4x Ithaqua
4x Y'Golonac
4x Ancient Gaurdian
4x Black Wind
4x Teller of Tales
4x Lavinia Whateley
1x Wilbur Whateley
1x Nodens
4x Written in the Sky
4x Stars are Right
4x Decrepit Mausoleum
4x Sanctify the Stone
3x Temple of Nephrin Ka
3x Thunder in the East
2x Gathering at the Stones

Thanks to all for the nice emails that you have sent to me. Take care,
Ron Kotwica

[/Ron wrote]

Hello

"Graham won easily and the deck specifics remained surprisingly secret. "

The european people was very nice and Graham ask us to keep the secret until the World Championship and all of us did it.

But a game that someone win on the first chance isn't good (or at last have great holes). I think so but I have a problem: I play for fun not in order to made "lawyer decks".

CoC is the sort of game that should be played for fun, not silly competativeness. While I appreciate the time and effort that went into finding out how to break the game, I wouldn't want to play against anyone fielding that sort of deck. Wheres the fun in it?

From a strict competition level the game won't be balanced and some cards or combos may come across as broken,, but how many people actually play the game like that as opposed to just playing for the enjoyment of the game?

The_Big_Show said:

That's a matter of opinion and fodder for several threads. Some people think it is great fun finding the super combos and springing them at tournaments. It boils down to what kind of player you are. No one was saying the Lock deck or first turn win deck were fun to play with or against, I don't think any of us used them in a casual game, but they are the best way to win a tournament. Some top tier decks aren't cooked up out of nothing, they evolve from being played many times and finding a synergy between cards you put in the deck and didn't intend to combo out. Deck building is part of the fun of these type of games , every deck I've built has been built with winning as the goal, and discovering the new combo gets a gamers blood pumping. If you don't want competition, just play casual with friends and stay out of tournaments. If you play tournaments, expect to go against tuned decks that people have spent time and effort on so they win.

Donald

Kotwica said:

Could you explain what you mean by "deck stacking"?

In every CCG I've played, you hand you deck to your opponent for a final shuffle if they choose, especially in a tournament. How is stacking a possibility?

Ah, I see. I'm a jaded MtG player. I always watched my opponent shuffle and then shuffled myself if it wasn't a casual game.

In a group I used to play in, we shuffled each other's decks so we could curse our opponent instead of ourselves when we got a nice mana clump. I'm also a believer in Robert Frost's philosophy, so that when we played in an extended group, I think our shuffling habits made for good neighbors. Some people just can't handle unlimited trust.

Come to think of it, even when I played in Japan, it was a habit of pretty much everyone I met to aggressively shuffle the opponent's deck even in casual games. Guys would get a glint in their eye as though they were going to deal you an awful hand.

I'm glad for the tangents in the thread. I'm picking up a lot of the culture.

Wheres the fun in it?

To each, his own. Creating decks is fun. Creating decks which try to do something against well-known behemoths is stimulating. Finding a deck you suppose can go toe to toe with one of the "tier one", testing it and finding an hidden interaction in jump tech you didn't think about which renders your counter strategy, well, useless, is a great thing, because you know something more of the game.

I find it exciting to know that every action counts because, at turn one-point-something, the opponent is gonna spring some nasty evil surprise on you.

As a reply to Arthur Machen's post:

I've lost the decklist but it was something like this:

Milling:

4x blackmoore estate

4x expectancy

4x terrors in the dark

2x gathering at the stones (to bring essential stuff back)

Removal:

4x sacrificial offferings

4x calling down the ancients

3x nodens

3x thing in the cave

2x deep one assault

4x single glimpse

2x beneath the mire

3x the sleeper awakens

1x sky torn asunder

Other stuff to stall the opponent:

4x cannibal ghast

2x Negotium perabulans in tenebris

4x called to the sea

4x forgotten isle

Thanks Thunder. We "suffered" this deck in Stahleck and I want to create it again to show it to some people here in Spain.

I am afraid also that the deck will not work the same with the 3 card rule in LCG.

Thanks again.

Some thoughts I had reading all this posts.

Sorry to hear you definitively leave the game, Graham. You were already pretty upset back in Stahleck. I remember you felt new cards were garbage and the game was going no where. I always try to be into a positive thinking, so even if you asure us FFG turned LCG into a horrible thing and that the upcoming cards are crap, I have to see it by myself.

Some of you said terrible things about Nate. If you were playtesters and nobody paid attention to your comments and suggestions, it is totally clear why you feel like that. It is also remarkable that FFG release old cards reprints and apparently they didn't correct any errata. To me, seems that all the effort in creating the LCG system and all those AP are gone if they don´t finish the work. FFG is releasing the game without listening to the playing community. It´s OK, but I wish they don´t expect we like every thing they do.

I assume that the PA group are fabulous great players that spent tons of time and money in creating top of the line decks. I've seen Graham deck in Stahleck and I was shocked to see it was unstopable. The Jump tech /Lock Deck Monster are amazing creations, but they are sick. They are legal, they are the ressult of months of playing and testing, and they deserve victory and a winner´s card in future releases, but thay are horrible decks. And as soon as those decks hit the table in top competitive play, FFG should do something to solve the problem. Borken cards and unbreakable combos had always happened in CCG. They happened in MtG, WoW and CoC. I guess it´s impossible for playtesters to cover all combinations available, and eventually some good players will find that fantastic combo (as you did) that beat every other deck in their meta. But broken decks/cards should be banned as soon as they are discovered (in my opinion) knowing broken as unbeatable or unbreakable. Graham said that with the new format they will be no more broken cards. That´s OK with me. And probably, that´s not true and as new cards will be released, new combos and different ways of mixing cards will be discovered, some of them to be destroyer and wild. No one thought when they were released that Messenger Char form MoN could be so devastating. I am not very fond of the selection of core set cards (AE Cthulhu, UT Shub, no Professor of Arch. nor Khanum) but with the upcoming AP, decks and combos will be created. Better or worse, broken or just winners. I also believe in the way people play. You could give me one of your jump engine decks and probably I will not play it correctly. Give the same deck (not a Jump engine based) to diferent people and they will play it in different ways. I know players who don´t have many cards so his decks are poor, but they play so **** well they wins very, very often.

And are you really sure that now is all random? Come on. I understand your frustration and angry, but give some credit to the non PA players. Do you really believe that a lot of players will beat you if you both play a deck of randomly pick up cards? No way. You are not a group of good players just because you created the most intrincated and reliable decks but because you also play very well. You control every aspect of the game regarding resources, actions, responses and strategy. And I know you as a group don´t want to sound arrogant, but you do. And you make the rest of the players look like idiots. And most of us, we are not. (maybe I am because I loose quite often but thats another story). The Finish people I met in Stahleck they were excellent players who played great decks. And other players were also fantastic players. Arthur Machen pointed something interesting. We as a group of players are so scattered that is very dificult to get together to play. How many players got to play the worlds? How many from Europe? From Asia? How many non-European came to Stahleck? Just you, Graham, and mainly because probably tou planned your vacation with that in mind and because you face this game in almost a professional way. Sometimes I wish we could gather hundreds of players to our tournaments but probably some flavour will be lost then.

After all this, Graham, don´t go far away and be back every once in a while, and do not take this as a bitter critic. I don't see things as bad and hopeless as you do. They have changed the game in a way I still don't know if I like it because I still need to see everything, from Core Set to new AP. You could be right, but I need to check it by myself.

Walter Corbitt said:

I agree with everything you wrote in the post...And I've to agree more with the quoted part.

I understand and SHARE the sadness and sometimes the rage with you, Graham (and everyone else who does), but sometime this "The game is over, I created the most powerful decks, my meta here, my meta there" thing annoys.

Kotwica says that he played the deck to "demonstrate" the bad development/balancing or whatever you want in the game...But he played those decks at worlds, Sthaleck.

Keep it secret.

Why?

If you were honest guys, you'd never play those decks on a tournament. Especially if you admit they're broken (as you do).

You'd have post them on the site and write "hey folks. This is sick. Ban it" as we did with Rip-off deck (the card, not player), sometimes with Assistant combinations and so on...

It's easy to demonstrate how sick is the game by winning world and then becoming a gentle hero. If I'm gentle, I don't play broken decks at a tournament to "demonstrate anything" as you did (or say so), because if you know that the deck's really sick and unbeatable (let's call it BUG now) there's no competiotion.

And you cannot ruin the game to everyone else just because you don't like it.

That's not honesty.

That's archness.

The game is sick, yes. Maybe is going to lose me too (and lots of other players).

But sometimes we, the players, should think twice befor writing something that looks like law but that's nothing more than an opinion.

And we shouldn't allow a player who stacks his deck to play competitive matches anymore (and, of course, he CANNOT be considered worlds winner, card designer or worst, a good player).

P.S. Don't misenderstand me. There's not hate/offense in this message, just my sane opinion. If you find some offensive expressions, that's because of my english.

P.S. 1 The statement on wordls winner is as you read it.

Well, I can only offer a view from the perspective of a casual player who loves the game mainly because it's based on the writing of HPL and his pals. Sure, I love the resourcing mechanic. Very Eurogame, that is. I'm also lucky x10 that my wife is an HPL fan AND a gamer so I mainly play with her and a couple of pals and for a gamer that doesn't bother with any competitive play, the Asylum packs are absolutely great. A steady flow of new cards at a cost of less than 10$ a month? That's a winner in my book.

It's unfortunate that this seems to have upset the apple cart for some tourney players and I can appreciate their passion for a game that they love. Maybe they can find some fun in variety and making decks with 1 or 2 copies of each card and just relishing the tentacled fun of Antediluvian horror? Maybe not. I do think, though, that, like most things in life, reaction is a matter of perspective and sometimes, being too embroiled in the 'politics' outside of a game can skew you enjoyment of the game itself. Love the art not the artist and all that.

Anyway, here's to an Asylum Pack based on The Whisperer in Darkness at some point!

Ia Ia and all that,

M13

This reminds me A LOT of the MTG boards. The minute someone doesn't like the new set, there are a bazillion new threads started that say "THIS SUCKS I'M GONE" or "YOU NERFED MY FAVORITE COLOR!" and "THERE ARE NO GOOD IDEAS, THE GAME IS DYING." These are usually some of the same people who end up sinking more money than the silent ones into the game anyway, despite having quit 4 times in that same year.

In a small game, it's SOOOO easy to take changes personally. I'm the perfect example. Let me say I never thought I would ever be on these boards again let alone own COC cards again. Oh well, lesson learned.

Seriously people, no one is telling you how to play this game and what you HAVE to do to enjoy it. By and large this is a CASUAL game no matter how much you guys think otherwise, and until FFG decides to put up some real cash to World Champion, it never will be more than a casual game. It's fine to be upset with changes, but just don't expect us to take up torches and picthforks and break down the company's door because you don't like what's happening. For those of us who won't take the game outside of the kitchen table, it really REALLY doesn't matter one lick.