@5particus Please don't feed the trolls. Use the ignore function. If we all work together, the problem will eventually cease to appear before us.

23 minutes ago, Mokoshkana said:

@5particus Please don't feed the trolls. Use the ignore function. If we all work together, the problem will eventually cease to appear before us.

how exactly, i cant see the ignore option anywhere

27 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

I've mostly avoided this topic, because I don't play in the online tournaments.

I don't think I've ever used the Overwatch/Standby combo when I've played clones (I don't play them as much as others) but once or twice. I usually play Rebels, so standby is only used with select characters and units.

I think just changing the Standby token definition from a green token to a grey token will fix the Negative Play experience and clones. I don't want them to adjust points or do anything else, because I feel that with all the new units coming out, the designers naturally or inadvertently make the newer units better anyway and I think less is more in keeping everything balanced. They only seem to adjust the RRG once a year as it is.

Eh... I politely disagree. Clones need a little... something... I've suggested a suppression tax for token sharing before, but ultimately I'm not a game designer so I can't quite pin down what would work best. I don't want them to be unviable, as thematically nothing scratches my tabletop itch better than clones vs droids, but they are super crunchy. This last game I was only able to pull 4 minis off the board over the course of 6 rounds. The culprit wasn't standby tokens, it was surges, aims, and dodges.

Clones are coming in a little hot, and standby sharing is part of it, but I don't believe it to be the cause, merely a symptom.

I look forward to the RRG update. I'd like to enjoy playing against clones but right now, standby sharing or no, it's a NPE.

Pics of that match inbound cause they're dope AF.

3 minutes ago, 5particus said:

how exactly, i cant see the ignore option anywhere

Upper right corner => account => ignore list on mobile at least. I think desktop is something similar.

@Darth Sanguis Those token holders are pretty cool (in addition to the rest of the board)!

I could see a restriction of only being able to share a single token per attack/defence pool using Clone Trooper (meaning Exemplar wouldn't be impacted), but as I am also not a game designer, hard to say if that is still balanced. It would make it a bit less punishing to spread out the GAR though. But I can't really speak from much experience either as current circumstances have dramatically curtailed the number of games I get to play.

New player here.

Apologies if this has been answered and I missed it, but when was the last update and how frequently do they occur?

I’m used to X-Wing and it seems the point changes are more frequent there..?

2 minutes ago, FriendofYoda said:

New player here.

Apologies if this has been answered and I missed it, but when was the last update and how frequently do they occur?

I’m used to X-Wing and it seems the point changes are more frequent there..?

The last "big" point change was last year iirc. Physical cards result in less frequent big changes it seems.

2 minutes ago, FriendofYoda said:

New player here.

Apologies if this has been answered and I missed it, but when was the last update and how frequently do they occur?

I’m used to X-Wing and it seems the point changes are more frequent there..?

The last (and so far only) points change was last year (I think it was in August?). The devs have stated that they are aiming for one set of points adjustments per year. Other RRG updates happen two or three times a year.

5 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

@Darth Sanguis Those token holders are pretty cool (in addition to the rest of the board)!

Thanks, I'm play testing them for Admiral Tater's Ship Shop , they actually were really handy while playing.

7 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

I could see a restriction of only being able to share a single token per attack/defence pool using Clone Trooper (meaning Exemplar wouldn't be impacted), but as I am also not a game designer, hard to say if that is still balanced. It would make it a bit less punishing to spread out the GAR though. But I can't really speak from much experience either as current circumstances have dramatically curtailed the number of games I get to play.

I can only speak for what my limited anecdotal experience has shown me, but from what I've seen being able to share an unlimited amount of tokens makes clones very efficient. Phase 2s, Rex's cards, and Fives and Echo all have a really harsh synergy where units just have tokens available to do things with little to no action econ loss. The problem is how well this compounds with naturally good stats (red defenses and black attack dice).

Just now, Darth Sanguis said:

Thanks, I'm play testing them for Admiral Tater's Ship Shop , they actually were really handy while playing.

I can only speak for what my limited anecdotal experience has shown me, but from what I've seen being able to share an unlimited amount of tokens makes clones very efficient. Phase 2s, Rex's cards, and Fives and Echo all have a really harsh synergy where units just have tokens available to do things with little to no action econ loss. The problem is how well this compounds with naturally good stats (red defenses and black attack dice).

They do seem like they would keep thing more organized. The main reason I wouldn't get them is because I don't think my coin protector encased order tokens would fit.

I do agree that the unlimited sharing means Clones are significantly less likely to have green tokens to pick up at the end of a round if they are tightly clustered together. Which means fewer wasted Dodge/Aim actions, tying into the action/activation economy of the game.

9 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

They do seem like they would keep thing more organized. The main reason I wouldn't get them is because I don't think my coin protector encased order tokens would fit.

That's an excellent point, I'll bring it up, he may make a version that accepts coincase tokens.

Another way to provide a counter for the Clone clusters is release more weapons with effects like Beam, where clustering together to share tokens opens the units up to additional free attacks. Even letting something like a mortar apply a pin to a second unit could work as a counter. But this would also impact the Droids.

37 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Upper right corner => account => ignore list on mobile at least. I think desktop is something similar.

just found it thanks, you have to hover over the name then another menu pops up and there is an ignore option there

12 hours ago, Khobai said:

I havent seen you concede any points either though.

And what happens when the rules update comes out and everything ive been saying is proven right? Will you concede that youve been wrong? Surely not. Thats the problem with people like you, youre disingenuous and never practice what you preach. At least I never pretended to take the moral high ground.

The rules update will vindicate everything Ive been saying about GAR for months. But no one will ever admit I was right and they were wrong lol. Most other people here dont concede when theyre wrong, you wont concede when youre wrong... dont act like youre any different. And dont fault other people for not doing what you wont either.

And yes sometimes forum topics alternate between being discussions, debates, or arguments. There is nothing wrong with any of those. Again the problem is when people display a lack of civility and resort to personal attacks. You can have perfectly civil arguments. Say what you want about me but I dont single people out and attack them personally like you continue to do to me. You cant let it go.

See the problem goes the same way though. Will you admit it if you end up being wrong about everything you've predicted? And if youre saying that youre not being hostile, I dont know what calling people "disingenuous" is. If you're right, people will admit that you were right most of the people here are civil and open minded.

We will have civil arguments with you as soon as you start having civil arguments with us. It's just difficult to argue civilly with someone who isn't civil is all. I must say though whether you're right or wrong doesn't matter, you express your opinions too flamboyantly everywhere it gets a bit annoying. I dont agree with the people who accuse and insult you this is not a place for things like that at all. But you must see somewhat of where they're coming from you have been expressing your opinions very aggressively and I think it would solve your problems and make everyone else a bit more inclined to agree with you if you argued your points with a more open mind and accept others ideas every once in a while, not just assume theyre wrong.

55 minutes ago, 5particus said:

just found it thanks, you have to hover over the name then another menu pops up and there is an ignore option there

Huh, I was unaware of that option at all, I've always done t through the (more annoying) interface of the Ignored Users settings, which requires you to type the name...

@Darth Sanguis

That's why I've avoided jumping into the topic. I always play too casually (even in a tournament I'd probably underperform) i just don't see all the imbalance because we don't play that competitively so we miss some of the hyper efficient synergies.

3 hours ago, Darth Sanguis said:

3 hours ago, Caimheul1313 said:

I could see a restriction of only being able to share a single token per attack/defence pool using Clone Trooper (meaning Exemplar wouldn't be impacted), but as I am also not a game designer, hard to say if that is still balanced. It would make it a bit less punishing to spread out the GAR though. But I can't really speak from much experience either as current circumstances have dramatically curtailed the number of games I get to play.

I can only speak for what my limited anecdotal experience has shown me, but from what I've seen being able to share an unlimited amount of tokens makes clones very efficient. Phase 2s, Rex's cards, and Fives and Echo all have a really harsh synergy where units just have tokens available to do things with little to no action econ loss. The problem is how well this compounds with naturally good stats (red defenses and black attack dice).

As a pretty casual (crappy) player you really can't tell GAR is overpowered as **** in most normal games. CIS is a lot more user friendly with that token sharing. Its only after listening to the podcast or watching top tier vods do you really see how crazy strong they are in the right hands. And according to many its goes past overpowered to just unfun to play against. Which is a big no no in a game that a decent amount revolves around tournaments to build hype.

3 hours ago, FriendofYoda said:

New player here.

Apologies if this has been answered and I missed it, but when was the last update and how frequently do they occur?

I’m used to X-Wing and it seems the point changes are more frequent there..?

32 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

That's why I've avoided jumping into the topic. I always play too casually (even in a tournament I'd probably underperform) i just don't see all the imbalance because we don't play that competitively so we miss some of the hyper efficient synergies.

As others have said once a year right after the biggest tournaments, but this one may be their first/last "major change" the game will see. Seems like it will be their major attempt to bring the two older factions to the same level as the newer factions. Throw in everyone wondering how they will fix GAR and them pushing the changes back a few months to really build anticipation in the community. Hopefully they thread that needle and everyone will be happy and not burn the forums down.............

The good thing about the system Legion (and X-wing) got right now is that you don't need to pay attention to these changes. Either you are using the app which changes points for you, or you are using the cards................ Does anybody really use the cards over the apps?!?!?

1 hour ago, buckero0 said:

@Darth Sanguis

That's why I've avoided jumping into the topic. I always play too casually (even in a tournament I'd probably underperform) i just don't see all the imbalance because we don't play that competitively so we miss some of the hyper efficient synergies.

I feel it. I try to keep it cool when it comes to clones. There's a lot of passionate people with opinions and perspective on the issue and we all have reason to believe our perspective is correct.

That's an interesting point a few people have made. The player I faced is good, he just did a local tournament where he was the only clone player and he won. That said, I don't see him as a hyper competitive person. He's a got a solid grasp of the game, and plays well, but he's not on the cutting edge of competitive play. Which is kinda where I start to see the imbalance become pronounced. Even players who have generally good spatial awareness and simply understand the mechanics can quickly see benefits from the way clones work.

I think the biggest deterrent for everyone seeing the balance issue is the Legion dice system. (Which, again, I've posted about in the past lol). Dice averages require a lengthy number of rolls to really start to reach intended balance (especially with two different points to create variables), in the short term, for instance the 50-100 rolls (defense and attack) made during a single game, they can seem incredibly skewed. The game I played , for instance, he rolled saves that were not statistically in his favor, making the clones seem much stronger than they should. (I only killed 4 minis after all). Which can make the results of power creep difficult to see.


All that said, I also think it's important to remember that while averages will determine overall balance, averages doesn't exist in a vacuum, peaks happen, and when a faction peaks harder than others it will seem inherently unbalanced and could be a NPE over all.

Anyways, we've seen these clone discussions way too much lol Let's move on to another subject. No point in talking about it with the RRG update just days away. lol

I’m interesting in starting with Imperials, so excited to see the changes that come in for the faction. Big draw to the Imps for me is Vader and the AT-ST, so definitely want to see them leading my armies.

1 hour ago, FriendofYoda said:

I’m interesting in starting with Imperials, so excited to see the changes that come in for the faction. Big draw to the Imps for me is Vader and the AT-ST, so definitely want to see them leading my armies.

Play what you like regardless of point efficiency unless you are really concerned about tournaments honestly.

I'd rather run an inefficient, fun list than a super efficient, boring list.

I saw some talk of changing standby to a color other then green. I'm not sure if this has been discussed yet so I'll ask. What if standby was not able to be shared but could still last between rounds until it would be last as normal or an action is taken by the unit with the standby token? Is that to much freedom. I'm not sure how that may change activation in subsequent rounds.

1 hour ago, PhoenixOfCopper said:

I saw some talk of changing standby to a color other then green. I'm not sure if this has been discussed yet so I'll ask. What if standby was not able to be shared but could still last between rounds until it would be last as normal or an action is taken by the unit with the standby token? Is that to much freedom. I'm not sure how that may change activation in subsequent rounds.

If standby lasted more than one round, it'd definitely be broken. Any unit with an objective token could just take a standby while out of sight, and then single/double move the next round into melee with a weakened unit and be completely safe from being shot at even if the unit they're engaged with withdraws.

8 minutes ago, Kirjath08 said:

If standby lasted more than one round, it'd definitely be broken. Any unit with an objective token could just take a standby while out of sight, and then single/double move the next round into melee with a weakened unit and be completely safe from being shot at even if the unit they're engaged with withdraws.

I don't get how they can't do that now. Standbys go away if the unit moves.

8 hours ago, arnoldrew said:

I don't get how they can't do that now. Standbys go away if the unit moves.

Well I'll be darned. Thought it was only on actions.

9 minutes ago, Kirjath08 said:

Well I'll be darned. Thought it was only on actions.

Well, it's on actions and attacks, but moving is an action.