46 minutes ago, DaverWattra said:

As much as this show is consistently cool and bad-****...

It seems like the creators have un-learned the lesson television creators learned in the late 90s, which is that to make a series interesting in the long term over several seasons, you need an interesting plot and characters with evolving relationships. This doesn't mean everything needs to be complicated and heady. But TV is different from movies. I can watch John Wick and all I need to entertain me for 2 hours is the action. But The Mandalorian is aiming to entertain me for more than 10 hours. When things go on that long, action action action starts to feel empty and repetitive.

I hope that the show goes beyond that formula next season. I'm still enjoying it, but if they keep up the same formula it will be too much. I'm not saying the show needs to follow the Golden Age TV formula in every respect, but right now it's doing the complete opposite of that, and I don't think it's sustainable for much longer.

I dunno. NCIS and Law & Order: Special Victims Unit seem be enduring pretty well in their 18th and 22nd seasons respectively, while just delivering what comics have long called the illusion of change. (In the case of the latter, a nominally regular character in the opening credits went an entire season without making a single appearance.) SVU, in particular (like the entire Law & Order franchise has typically done) goes out of its way to avoid much of the characters’ personal lives and non-professional interactions, except when it can be an obstacle to the story. (My wife and I have recently started using SVU as sort of “background noise” programming, and the various networks running marathons quite often skip one or more seasons ahead from one episode to the next, and there’s no problem following what’s going on, and the characters remain the same. If one character leaves, they’re replaced by another one that isn’t all that different. For a while, they didn’t even bother having a “regular” Assistant DA in the cast, as they were all interchangeable.)

But courtroom dramas and detective/cop stories (and exploration, like in Star Trek) are the sort of things that work in a long-term episodic show, because they involve lots of plot. Action just doesn't work the same way. At least I personally have a limited appetite for battle after battle, in a way that I don't have a limited appetite for new weird alien world after new weird alien world if it's Picard and Riker doing the exploring. Battle after battle does work in a show like Band of Brothers, because it's about these people coping with this relentless environment and being a part of history. But that is to say, again, that I need more layers beyond just action.

Anyway, I'm not saying this is what the show needs to do in order to stay financially viable. I'm saying it's what it needs to do in order to keep me as a happy audience.

I have seen a different show then I guess. The one I watched was one where a religious fanatic is slowly moving from being an einzelgänger, bad *** bountyhunter who trusts no one to a person who forgives betrayal, grows to love someone else more than he does himself and his safety. A show where he is more and more capable of sacrificing what he thought was his path (or “way” if you will) to pursue a life for his adopted kid.
Last episode even saw him go so far that he went against his most core tennent of belief and his conflict on screen was enormous.

2 hours ago, DaverWattra said:

As much as this show is consistently cool and bad-****...It seems like the creators have un-learned the lesson television creators learned in the late 90s, which is that to make a series interesting in the long term over several seasons, you need an interesting plot and characters with evolving relationships.

From where I'm sitting, I have an interesting plot and charactes, with evolving relationships. Although to be fair, the main character has only started to show major changes in his personality in thelast 2-3 episodes.

I'm certainly not seeing any unchanging, static characters among the recurring cast.

Quote

This doesn't mean everything needs to be complicated and heady. But TV is different from movies. I can watch John Wick and all I need to entertain me for 2 hours is the action. But The Mandalorian is aiming to entertain me for more than 10 hours. When things go on that long, action action action starts to feel empty and repetitive.

So far it has entertained you for just under 10 hours. In terms of 90s tv shows, that puts you barely halfway through season 1, or the part where the season arc hasn't even started to kick in yet.

Releasing 8 shortish episodes per year is in a sense closer to doing movies than to doing a traditional 22 hour-long episodes season.

21 hours ago, DanteRotterdam said:

I have seen a different show then I guess. The one I watched was one where a religious fanatic is slowly moving from being an einzelgänger, bad *** bountyhunter who trusts no one to a person who forgives betrayal, grows to love someone else more than he does himself and his safety. A show where he is more and more capable of sacrificing what he thought was his path (or “way” if you will) to pursue a life for his adopted kid.
Last episode even saw him go so far that he went against his most core tennent of belief and his conflict on screen was enormous.

Thanks, this did help me see the show's development so far in a more positive light. I just wish they would foreground these elements more. It's tough when Pascal isn't in a position to act with his face. I hope he'll learn from Bo-Katan's crowd and relax about the helmet thing in the future.

2 hours ago, DaverWattra said:

I just wish they would foreground these elements more.

I'm not sure if we're watching the same show, because to me, this isn't something that's also in the show, it's what the show is all about. The rest is varying degrees of (excellent) filler, more or less.

On 12/13/2020 at 11:59 AM, DurosSpacer said:

I really like the conflict we are seeing with wearing the helmet. Perhaps he is rethinking The Way he's been doing it?

• I don't take this off for anyone, no matter what.
• Not even with the Twi'lek ex-gf.
• Even for a pretty lady in a remote village who can shoot things really well. Close, but no.
• A droid technically isn't a living thing, so I will allow it this time.
• Even when others ruthlessly tease him, like maybe he's a Gungan.
• Not in front of an alien child.
• (Already breaks the BH code by stealing The Asset back.)
• Likes finding other Mandos, until they remove their helms.
• Declares others Mandos as NOT Mandalorian (and leaves) since they remove their helms.
• Does not say he'd hunt the Jedi, only listened to the offer. (Still being technically obedient to a code)
• Willing to remove the helm in front of others to get what he needs to save the child. Or, he at least thought no one would be face-to-face with him, so it was okay.

A re-thinking of The Way or a weakening resolve? Is it a mortal 'sin' or mistake which he must atone for? Will he be hard on himself, repentant, and double-down? Or, is he learning that life is complicated and people are imperfect? Will we eventually see him helmet-free regularly? Will others, like him, change with him?

I like what Mayfield pointed out. Is it seeing your face or not taking off the helmet? it matters.

On 12/13/2020 at 2:27 PM, HappyDaze said:

I think it's much like those that subscribe to beliefs such as "thou shalt not kill," but find that they need to make exceptions, sometimes lots of them.

The Rule is Thou Shalt not Murder. Makin it Thou Shalt not Kill requires exceptions for killing to eat etc. But Thou Shalt not Murder does not.

31 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

I like what Mayfield pointed out. Is it seeing your face or not taking off the helmet? it matters.

Mandalorians fetishise their beskar, not their modesty or privacy.

You can count on the rule being to not remove the helmet.

And of course the important thing Mayfield said was:

"Everybody's got their lines they don't cross until things get messy. As far as I'm concerned, if you can make it through your day and still sleep at night, you're doin' better than most."

Which on the surface of it is an incredibly cynical line, but turned out to be the opposite in context.

6 hours ago, Daeglan said:

The Rule is Thou Shalt not Murder. Makin it Thou Shalt not Kill requires exceptions for killing to eat etc. But Thou Shalt not Murder does not.

That depends on what version is being studied. And the fact that there are multiple interpretations (and people are so quick to jump to the one they don't ascribe to as being WRONG!) goes the whole point I was making about religions being incredibly strict...until it's better for them not to be.

23 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

That depends on what version is being studied.

Which translation , and a translation can be inaccurate.

1 minute ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Which translation , and a translation can be inaccurate.

I think that’s kinda the point. Those taught to follow a given translation believe that theirs is accurate and the others aren’t.

1 hour ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Which translation , and a translation can be inaccurate.

For that matter, the original version may itself have been inaccurate.

2 hours ago, HappyDaze said:

That depends on what version is being studied. And the fact that there are multiple interpretations (and people are so quick to jump to the one they don't ascribe to as being WRONG!) goes the whole point I was making about religions being incredibly strict...until it's better for them not to be.

An inaccurate translation can be more strict than the original rule was. That doesnt make the original rule too strict it makes the translation wrong resulting in bad assumptions.

14 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

An inaccurate translation can be more strict than the original rule was. That doesnt make the original rule too strict it makes the translation wrong resulting in bad assumptions.

On what authority do you have it that the original was correctly interpreted?

What if a later translator claims that same authority provided a more correct version?

On what authority do you think it was correct to be thou shalt not kill? Is that logical given that it causes lots of problems? IT is clear given the stories that killing was not inherently bad. so if killing is not inherently bad would it make sense that the specific kind of killing might be the issue. not the killing it self? Also we have people who still know how to read languages that are closer to the original language. and we know what words were chosen in those translations.

Book of Boba Fett December 2021

Very sneaky with the post credit scene....

Now that was Star Wars! I can't think of anything I'd change about that episode.

The gun jam;

The duel;

The Book of Boba Fett;

The Jedi.

I noticed Mark Hamill in the credits, but I'd have sworn that wasn't him de-aged...

Holy ****! Holy ****! Holy ****! Holy ****! Holy ****! Holy ****! Holy ****! Holy ****! Holy ****! Holy ****! Holy ****! Holy ****! Holy ****! Holy ****! Holy ****! Holy ****!

1 hour ago, DanteRotterdam said:

Holy ****! Holy ****! Holy ****! Holy ****! Holy ****! Holy ****! Holy ****! Holy ****! Holy ****! Holy ****! Holy ****! Holy ****! Holy ****! Holy ****! Holy ****! Holy ****!

Indeed. Seconded.

1 hour ago, Dazgrim said:

I noticed Mark Hamill in the credits, but I'd have sworn that wasn't him de-aged...

It looked like they cut scenes of him out of Jedi and pasted them over a body double. It looked both bad and good at the same time but also looked awkward when he spoke. Still, I am very glad they finally did right by the character and by the actor.

Oh no, not this again.

16 minutes ago, DanteRotterdam said:

Oh no, not this again.

At least the height was right...

But more seriously, I thought it was really well done. The departure of Grogu frees the series to move away from it's current battle-babysitter format. Hopefully Luke and Grogu will continue to crop up in the Ahsoka series as well as in the Mandalorian going forward as he checks in on the Jedi creshe.

The battle to retake Mandalore seems like an obvious focus for the next series. Mando ending up with the Darksabre seemed inevitable (I'm going to have to re-watch season 4 of Rebels, I thought Sabine handed it over to Bo-Katan I don't recall a fight).