Hi all. I have played star wars legion and I know I'm not the only one who thinks that there is much to be desired in the manner of gameplay. Has anyone made alternative rules or made alterations of their own? I've been working on my own for a while (coming soon), but want to know if anyone else has already done this. Thank you ~ Kolbehs

1 hour ago, Tidrewski Kolbehs said:

Hi all. I have played star wars legion and I know I'm not the only one who thinks that there is much to be desired in the manner of gameplay. Has anyone made alternative rules or made alterations of their own? I've been working on my own for a while (coming soon), but want to know if anyone else has already done this. Thank you ~ Kolbehs

Ive seen people post about house rules and stuff but I don't think there is a full fan made conversion out there.

I don't believe I have heard of people making their own rules, but there are rule systems that are "model agnostic" (ie. you can use whatever models you want). There is a specific sci-fi ruleset that I have heard good things about, and that people used with Legion models, but I cannot recall what it is called, unfortunately...

1 hour ago, Tidrewski Kolbehs said:

Hi all. I have played star wars legion and I know I'm not the only one who thinks that there is much to be desired in the manner of gameplay. Has anyone made alternative rules or made alterations of their own? I've been working on my own for a while (coming soon), but want to know if anyone else has already done this. Thank you ~ Kolbehs

In what aspects do you think there is much to be desired? Perhaps we could make some house rule suggestions based on what you're unhappy with. I really like the rules as they are, but that's me and not you.

36 minutes ago, Lochlan said:

I don't believe I have heard of people making their own rules, but there are rule systems that are "model agnostic" (ie. you can use whatever models you want). There is a specific sci-fi ruleset that I have heard good things about, and that people used with Legion models, but I cannot recall what it is called, unfortunately...

I know there was a fan conversion of Chain of Command on facebook for Star Wars models, and I do know of a game called Star Breach ( https://www.starbreach.com/ )... Not sure if that's the one you mean.

1 hour ago, KommanderKeldoth said:

Ive seen people post about house rules and stuff but I don't think there is a full fan made conversion out there.

That's what I thought. I've been working on new rules for a while now. I'm basing it on Games Workshop's LOTR SBG. The mechanics of it are pretty straightforward but, IMO, very enjoyable. I'm hoping to finish the rules/stats soon and potentially release them as either a PDF or Booklet if there was enough public interest. I've been testing it myself but if there are others out there who would be willing to play test it/make recommendations, let me know!

1 hour ago, arnoldrew said:

In what aspects do you think there is much to be desired? Perhaps we could make some house rule suggestions based on what you're unhappy with. I really like the rules as they are, but that's me and not you.

Not to go on a rant or diminish the game, but IMO the basic mechanics of the game are lacking. The combat, amount of extra pieces (cards, tokens, etc), and the lack of compatibility with homemade/customized objects or units. I'm not saying its a bad game, I just think that, compared to other SBGs, I wish it was better. Just my personal opinion though.

46 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

I do know of a game called Star Breach ( https://www.starbreach.com/ )... Not sure if that's the one you mean.

That is indeed the one I was thinking of. I was pretty sure it was Star-something. Thanks!

11 minutes ago, Tidrewski Kolbehs said:

Not to go on a rant or diminish the game, but IMO the basic mechanics of the game are lacking. The combat, amount of extra pieces (cards, tokens, etc), and the lack of compatibility with homemade/customized objects or units. I'm not saying its a bad game, I just think that, compared to other SBGs, I wish it was better. Just my personal opinion though.

What games are you comparing it to for frame of reference?

Mostly just GW's Lord of the Rings (The original version, not the newer stuff). And from what I have seen of Warhammer, it looks similar.

18 minutes ago, Tidrewski Kolbehs said:

Mostly just GW's Lord of the Rings (The original version, not the newer stuff). And from what I have seen of Warhammer, it looks similar.

The more recent editions of Warhammer Fantasy are in many ways more complicated than Legion. Which version specifically do you mean?

Specifically, the LOTR SBG game rules from 2005. I haven't played the newer versions though so I don't know how much has changed. As far was warhammer goes, I haven't played although the layout/strategies do appear to be similar.

26 minutes ago, Tidrewski Kolbehs said:

Specifically, the LOTR SBG game rules from 2005. I haven't played the newer versions though so I don't know how much has changed. As far was warhammer goes, I haven't played although the layout/strategies do appear to be similar.

I'm not sure what you mean by them being similar when the LotR game is essentially a skirmish ruleset vs a rank and file, group base game.
I mean, yes, they both have the mechanic of comparing your values vs the target model's values, but that's about all they share.
Everyone is welcome to their own opinion, but I feel Legion is in many ways more simple than any of the LotR rulesets. Sure there are tokens, but those are use to help you remember various game states, rather than just having to remember without tokens. Legion's attacking and defending mechanics are much simpler to me.
I've seen many people use dashboards for the old or new LotR games to keep track of all their hero stats, or any currently active spells.

As I haven't played Warhammer, I can't say. They just look the same. I totally get it if you like legion the way it is. I just want to add more to the game.

2 minutes ago, Tidrewski Kolbehs said:

As I haven't played Warhammer, I can't say. They just look the same. I totally get it if you like legion the way it is. I just want to add more to the game.

I don't know what you have watched, but Warhammer Fantasy battles has little in common with LotR, I'm not really sure where you got that impression.
I agree Legion could use some tweaks, but my idea of the tweaks I'd want are nothing like the LotR games.
What exactly are you looking to add? All you've said is you want Legion to be more like LotR, but not really in which way. If what you want is more of a skirmish game than a reinforced platoon game, then yeah, Legion is really not what you want. The main challenge I see in converting the LotR rules to Star Wars is that the LotR game is more focused on melee combat than ranged, while Star Wars is much more focused on shooting.

As I said, I'm "basing" it on LotR SBG. I'm changing it a ton to suit the Star Wars theme and war style. It's kind of hard to sum it all up into a chat and I'm not done yet but mainly I want it to be more versatile. I want more customization for the characters and stats, faster, more simplified but very strategic combat, and although it is true that you can use character sheets for every unit in LotR, I want it to be much more clean and streamlined to play a game. Basically Star Wars Legion gives me the impression of a board game, while LotR, in my personal opinion, feels more like a Strategy Battle Game. I totally get it if people like Legion as it is, I'm just hoping to combine 2 good things to make 1 (hopefully) even better game.

@Tidrewski Kolbehs You keep using the term "Strategy Battle Game" as if it is a defined genre of wargame when that term, when broken down is basically just "wargame." I have only ever heard that term in the names of the LotR games to be honest, and the game is played more at the tactical level than the strategic level. What I think you actually mean is a skirmish game. Mordheim, Necromunda, NCO, and Star Breach are all similar to what you describe.
The majority of games at the reinforced platoon level don't allow for a ton of customization on the characters, maybe a bit of weapon selection, that's about it. Minimal customization is a frequent component in games intended for "competitive play" since it is easier to "balance" a game with fewer combinations.

Stil, I'd be interested in what you come up with, as I'm always interested in having more games to play with the same minis.

50 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

@Tidrewski Kolbehs You keep using the term "Strategy Battle Game" as if it is a defined genre of wargame when that term, when broken down is basically just "wargame." I have only ever heard that term in the names of the LotR games to be honest, and the game is played more at the tactical level than the strategic level. What I think you actually mean is a skirmish game. Mordheim, Necromunda, NCO, and Star Breach are all similar to what you describe.
The majority of games at the reinforced platoon level don't allow for a ton of customization on the characters, maybe a bit of weapon selection, that's about it. Minimal customization is a frequent component in games intended for "competitive play" since it is easier to "balance" a game with fewer combinations.

Stil, I'd be interested in what you come up with, as I'm always interested in having more games to play with the same minis.

I guess that is where it boils down to. I want a war or "battle" game where both teams have an army vs sending in a couple different squads and maybe a hero or 2. Again I totally get that its not for everyone. Thank you for your interest.

3 hours ago, Tidrewski Kolbehs said:

I guess that is where it boils down to. I want a war or "battle" game where both teams have an army vs sending in a couple different squads and maybe a hero or 2. Again I totally get that its not for everyone. Thank you for your interest.

This confuses me because the LotR that I know of is typically played at a much smaller size, a couple of smallish warbands with a handful of heroes as opposed to (for instance) a recreation of the Battle of Helm's deep. I know that it can be played at larger sizes, but I was unaware that was the norm. I was under the impression that the War of the Ring mass battle system was intended for army vs army battles. Of course, your experience may differ from mine, I don't know what your local meta is.

Many games played with full armies on each side that I know of are played at the 15mm level (or smaller!), and that would also be quite a fun Star Wars game. In my opinion, it would work best at a smaller scale as it would make it much easier to fit AT-ATs and other large vehicles on the table.

On 7/24/2020 at 4:41 PM, Tidrewski Kolbehs said:

It's kind of hard to sum it all up into a chat and I'm not done yet but mainly I want it to be more versatile. I want more customization for the characters and stats, faster, more simplified but very strategic combat, and although it is true that you can use character sheets for every unit in LotR, I want it to be much more clean and streamlined to play a game.

I'm interested in how you'll achieve both "faster, more simplified" and "more customization"

I remember reading about someone's rules to start with generic commanders and then have them "level up" with additional keywords, better stats, different weapons, add upgrade icons using skill trees. I think it was intended for league play, but also increased the unit cost, so you could just upgrade characters too.

we banned strike teams. that improves the game greatly.

I've used a modified set of the Necromunda rules to provide more skirmish style gameplay. It's definitely not faster and a lot smaller in scale, comparable to IA but the more in depth mechanics and customisation are great. Plus the use of individual models instead of units and the ability to tweak stats means that its great for narrative play (kinda like IA but not exactly?).

1 hour ago, Atromix said:

I've used a modified set of the Necromunda rules to provide more skirmish style gameplay. It's definitely not faster and a lot smaller in scale, comparable to IA but the more in depth mechanics and customisation are great. Plus the use of individual models instead of units and the ability to tweak stats means that its great for narrative play (kinda like IA but not exactly?).

Did you get the conversion somewhere online, or was it something someone in your playgroup put together?

8 hours ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Did you get the conversion somewhere online, or was it something someone in your playgroup put together?

My FLGS had a pretty big Necromunda scene so I just took the SWL models, gave them stats and used them. The rules are pretty close to standard Necromunda, with just a few house rules for quality of life improvements and the occasional extra keyword to make it more Star Wars-y.

19 minutes ago, Atromix said:

My FLGS had a pretty big Necromunda scene so I just took the SWL models, gave them stats and used them. The rules are pretty close to standard Necromunda, with just a few house rules for quality of life improvements and the occasional extra keyword to make it more Star Wars-y.

That's cool, I was mostly curious if those modifications were something that existed in a publically available digital format.