Heralds of Hope was the continental expansion.

So, is fugitives and collaborators scum after all? Are scum pilots collaborators? Are first order?

Is it another ******* resistance box again with even god **** more RZ2s? The other packs are very tightly themed - RoS, Pheonix Cell, Skystrike Academy - the name "Fugitives and Collaborators" doesn't give me any hint whatsoever what tightly knit thematic grouping it could be, but I also don't really consume much star wars media off the tabletop. Surely someone knows.

The stuff they revealed so far is very cool, but I still really want those leaks to be real. Rebels are my favorite and it'd be nice to get some new toys for them. Empire players would probably appreciate something new besides a single Tie variant as well.

1 hour ago, svelok said:

Heralds of Hope was the continental expansion.

So, is fugitives and collaborators scum after all? Are scum pilots collaborators? Are first order?

Is it another ******* resistance box again with even god **** more RZ2s? The other packs are very tightly themed - RoS, Pheonix Cell, Skystrike Academy - the name "Fugitives and Collaborators" doesn't give me any hint whatsoever what tightly knit thematic grouping it could be, but I also don't really consume much star wars media off the tabletop. Surely someone knows.

Come to think of it. Most of the 'scum' villains in the Clone Wars cartoon were at points in their arcs fugitives and at other points collaborators with either the CIS or sometimes even the Republic.

Wait, you don't think it's going to be like scum and villainy's old intro box from first edition and introduce a whole new CWera Scum-like faction... Man I assume not but... hmmmmmmm.

1 hour ago, ForceSensitive said:

Come to think of it. Most of the 'scum' villains in the Clone Wars cartoon were at points in their arcs fugitives and at other points collaborators with either the CIS or sometimes even the Republic.

Wait, you don't think it's going to be like scum and villainy's old intro box from first edition and introduce a whole new CWera Scum-like faction... Man I assume not but... hmmmmmmm.

Lets see, the other two are OT faction Squadron packs. S&V doesn't have one either. Both the Imp and Rebel one are in title centered on the Rebel Series.

MG TIE: The Mining Guild, a S&V sub faction, actively worked with the Empire to the extent that they were permitted by the Emperor to acquire their own TIE variant (Collaborator, was the villain sub faction for one of the story lines in Rebels).

Lancer (Not touching Shadow Port hunters since their very name should be a giveaway about their status with the Empire) : Ketsu Onyo, a Mandalorian, worked for Black Sun, the Empire and the Rebellion (Canon, Fugitive and Collaborator). Sabine Wrenn, another Mandalorian, did the same except not with the Empire see @theBitterFig 's post below (Canon, Fugitive and Collaborator).

HWK-290 (If Rebels link required since both of the other two Squadron Packs are linked to that series, read up a bit on Kanan pre-Rebellion post Republic, a HWK features, not touching Spice Runners since they're also obvious) : Palob actively worked against the Empire before the Rebellion was even formed (Legends, Fugitive), Dace was a bounty hunter that work for whomever, including the Hutt Cartels and the Empire (Legends, collaborator), Torkil was a thieving mine foreman/slaver that worked for Jabba (Legends, fugitive, not wise to steal from the Hutts).

Wistful dream away though.

7 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Sabine Wrenn, another Mandalorian, did the same except not with the Empire

I mean, Sabine Wren was a former collaborator. She was a student at the time, but still designed weapons for the Empire, for no other reason than to prove that she could.

"I built weapons, terrible weapons, but the Empire used them on Mandalore, on friends, on family. People that I knew. They controlled us through fear. Mandalor! Fear of weapons I helped create. I helped enslave my people! I wanted to stop it. I had to stop it. I spoke out! I spoke out to save them. To save everyone! But when I did, my family didn't stand with me. They chose the Empire. They left me. Gave me no choice. The Empire wanted to destroy worlds. And they did. They destroyed mine. "

It's why the Sabine/Kanan training duel is my favorite lightsaber duel in all of SW, because there's just such emotion through there.

My only quibble is that when Kanan raises his hand at the end, I wish it was with together fingers, rather than apart. That'd still have an indication to stop, without looking quite as afraid. I don't buy that Kanan thinks Sabine is actually going to strike, so it feels like a mistake as an emotional beat.

On 7/30/2020 at 11:42 AM, ClassicalMoser said:

And I've been wanting to play Acey Rebels forever but all we have is tankers.

This is fact!! I really want to be able to fly ships like an ace, but they just don't work like that rn. I really hope that the A-Wing gets a competitive buff in a way that makes it unique, powerful, different from the RZ-2 and probably most importantly FUN to play!

3 hours ago, svelok said:

Heralds of Hope was the continental expansion.

So, is fugitives and collaborators scum after all? Are scum pilots collaborators? Are first order?

Is it another ******* resistance box again with even god **** more RZ2s? The other packs are very tightly themed - RoS, Pheonix Cell, Skystrike Academy - the name "Fugitives and Collaborators" doesn't give me any hint whatsoever what tightly knit thematic grouping it could be, but I also don't really consume much star wars media off the tabletop. Surely someone knows.

I lean toward First Order.

I think a) we get hung up on cool names too often and overthink them lol

And b) it never sounded like anything but scum to me. Being a collaborator doesn't mean you have to be locked into the faction you collaborated with. I think a DJ crew card for scum is pretty much guaranteed in it if it is Scum, and he fits that description.

On 7/31/2020 at 5:05 PM, svelok said:

Heralds of Hope was the continental expansion.

So, is fugitives and collaborators scum after all? Are scum pilots collaborators? Are first order?

Is it another ******* resistance box again with even god **** more RZ2s? The other packs are very tightly themed - RoS, Pheonix Cell, Skystrike Academy - the name "Fugitives and Collaborators" doesn't give me any hint whatsoever what tightly knit thematic grouping it could be, but I also don't really consume much star wars media off the tabletop. Surely someone knows.

It occurs to me that "Fugitives and Collaborators" pretty much describes Mandalorians. In Rebels, we see a number of Collaborators with the Empire. In The Mandalorian series, they are very much fugitives.

I'm probably wrong about this (because I usually am when I speculate!), but:

I think that the squadron pack will include two Fang Fighters. I'm just not sure what the third ship would be.
I don't think it would be a Firespray, because that's more of a Fett ship, than a general Mandalorian one. Plus, I don't think they'll put a medium-base in a squadron pack.
I can't figure out what a third small ship would be, though, unless they just went with three Fangs.
1. The Kom'rk/Gauntlet is too big.
2. The Razor Crest has the same problems as the Firespray - too big, primarily known for one character, not Mandalorians in general.
3. The StarViper is a possibility, since it was made by a Mandalorian company, but Wookiepedia, at least, claims they weren't used much by Mandalorian fighting forces.
4. Wookiepedia lists the Scyk and V-Wing as ships used by Mandalorians, but they aren't really ships I would associate with Mandalorians primarily. At least they're already-available sculpts, though.

Anyone know of any other potential small-base Mandalorian ships in the fiction, even if they haven't made a sculpt for it yet?

I should probably also note that I would expect the faction for this to be Scum, same as for the current Mandalorian ships we've seen.

37 minutes ago, Freeptop said:

It occurs to me that "Fugitives and Collaborators" pretty much describes Mandalorians. In Rebels, we see a number of Collaborators with the Empire. In The Mandalorian series, they are very much fugitives.

This makes a lot of sense. So, we already know one of the ships: the Fang fighter.

I know the aces are just repainted ships, but I would love to see a new chassis there, specially the Razor Crest (don't know if it's a Mando design), the Aka'jor-class shuttle or the Kom'rk-class fighter .

1 hour ago, Freeptop said:

Wookiepedia lists the Scyk and V-Wing as ships used by Mandalorians, but they aren't really ships I would associate with Mandalorians primarily.

The Scyk is MandalMotors so there’s a strong case there.

In legends it was mainly seen in Hutt use, but that may well change in Canon.

I believe that fugitives and collaborators will be a first order kit. As @Managarmr mentioned earlier in the thread, the first order raider is called first order collaborators.

Anyone who stayed with empire after operation cinder is a war criminal (fugitive).

I hope scum gets a either a bounty hunter themed pack or a pirate themed pack. I have a feeling scum is getting the razorcrest first.

18 hours ago, Freeptop said:

1. The Kom'rk/Gauntlet is too big.

Despite what some websites might say, it looks to be near the size of the VCX, judging be the A-wing and VCX there. So I wouldn't count it out. Also, it already has some pilots and titles attributed to it, making it easier to scrounge up info: Maul's Nightbrother, Galus Vez's Splendour, and Delphi Kloda's Sparrowhawk. That's 3 titles and 3 pilots there, and you could tack on Bazine Netal and a generic Death Watch Escort as pilots. Pre Vizsla, Savage Oppress, Bo Katan Kryze, and Bazine Netal crew?

"It's only slightly bigger than a ship that already needs a special peg to hold it up."

They would need to fudge the scaling a bit to make it work. Not sure they will. Would buy it if they did.

the gauntlet is one of those ships that seems to have conflicting canon sizes and, really, a little bit of scale smudge to make it VCX sized would be fine. it wouldnt release in a squadron pack, though

14 hours ago, reqent said:

I believe that fugitives and collaborators will be a first order kit.

but are the first order fugitives?

I have zero issue with them tinkering with the scale a bit.

Fan art, but still... Looks about the width of 3 Fangs.

That said, I *really* don't see it as a squadron pack ship. This thing would be it's own large-base release.

33 minutes ago, gamblertuba said:

"It's only slightly bigger than a ship that already needs a special peg to hold it up."

They would need to fudge the scaling a bit to make it work. Not sure they will. Would buy it if they did.

Most of the Kom'rk is thinner wing, whereas the Ghost is... a thicc boi. So it likely wouldn't have the same stand problems. Fudging scaling wouldn't be unfamiliar to X-wing in anycase.

I am largely motivated by wanting Maul pilot in the faction. Force in the faction has largely been limited to him in Boba's backpack. Make him a pilot and maybe Boba has to consider taking different crew. The fact that there are so many other readily available Scum to pilot the ship just seems to make it an easy pick for me.

And Scum has such a shortage of large base ships; they need this one. /s

2 minutes ago, svelok said:

but are the first order fugitives?

Somewhat. If the Republic is the legitimate government in the Galaxy, then the First Order could be called fugitives.

Overall, I still think F&C, presuming it exists, will be Scum. Could it have worked for Resistance? Could it work for First Order? Sure. But Scum just makes so much more sense to me.

Fugutives and Collaborators could also concievably be dual-faction(Rebel/Scum, with shared ships).

I think it's likely to be purely Scum though.

Also right now, Mando excluded, Scum is like Rebels in that there aren't really any new (recognisable) ships to give to us. So it would make sense for FFG and us as players to give us a squadron pack with repaints and new pilots and upgrades.

1 hour ago, svelok said:

but are the first order fugitives?

Yeah the FO founders are wanted war criminals. In the aftermath novels the bounty hunter is trying to collect bounties on the former imperials. Alpahabet squadron implies that if you stayed on past operation cinder your a criminal. They are fugitives unless they already did time first.

It's the collaborator part that really makes me think FO. Only the true believers join. They spend years discretely forming an army.

If it was hunters and fugitives it would clearly be scum.

8 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

Despite what some websites might say, it looks to be near the size of the VCX, judging be the A-wing and VCX there. So I wouldn't count it out. Also, it already has some pilots and titles attributed to it, making it easier to scrounge up info: Maul's Nightbrother, Galus Vez's Splendour, and Delphi Kloda's Sparrowhawk. That's 3 titles and 3 pilots there, and you could tack on Bazine Netal and a generic Death Watch Escort as pilots. Pre Vizsla, Savage Oppress, Bo Katan Kryze, and Bazine Netal crew?

I meant too large for a squadron pack - and since I'd already ruled out the Firespray as too big for one, being bigger than a VCX-100 doesn't exactly give me confidence!

While we’re talking Gauntlets, what about Gar and Tiber Saxon? They’re probably more straight empire than scum collaborators but I’d like to see them either way.

Re: F&C though, honestly scum was always the best fit for the name. The only reason I originally suggested it could be Resistance was because the devs had teased HoH before without giving a name.

5 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

While we’re talking Gauntlets, what about Gar and Tiber Saxon? They’re probably more straight empire than scum collaborators but I’d like to see them either way.

Re: F&C though, honestly scum was always the best fit for the name. The only reason I originally suggested it could be Resistance was because the devs had teased HoH before without giving a name.

Tiber, I don't know, but considering that it's very unlikely the Empire will ever get Mandalorian fighters (faction identity etc.), Gar Saxon is a prominent character, and he was working with Maul before the Empire, I can totally see him as a Scum pilot, if not for the Gauntlet then for the Fang.

12 minutes ago, eMeM said:

Tiber, I don't know, but considering that it's very unlikely the Empire will ever get Mandalorian fighters (faction identity etc.), Gar Saxon is a prominent character, and he was working with Maul before the Empire, I can totally see him as a Scum pilot, if not for the Gauntlet then for the Fang.

Exactly. I can totally see a repainted Fang Fighter with Gar Saxon as pilot.