3 minutes ago, drail14me said:

You partially convert a ship when you limit its uses. I purchased one of each first edition ship. FFGs conversion kit limits me to only being able to use two at a time. Everyone is making the argument of two ships. Show me the rule saying you can only use two ships in a game. Huge ships are for casual play now, not regulation play. In casual, you can use whatever you and your opponent agree to.

FFG designed this kit will a rule of two ships in mind and not with converting one of each ship released in mind.

Who's saying there's a two-ship rule? I have not seen any such claim anywhere.

However, a line needs to be drawn somewhere. Technically, there's no reason people couldn't play games with any number of points, and as many Huge ships as players cared to buy. Does that mean FFG should include an infinite number of Huge bases?

Rather, they went with 2, not because of some rule, but because it's a decent number that will likely fit most games.

9 hours ago, Estarriol said:

Meh. Epic is casual mode. Eyeball it with the new tool

That’s not how casual mode works!

22 minutes ago, Sasajak said:

That’s not how casual mode works!

I think some people read "casual mode", but their brains interpret it as "Calvinball".

48 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

Does that mean FFG should include an infinite number of Huge bases?

No, just one for EACH 1.0 Epic ship.

1 minute ago, drail14me said:

No, just one for EACH 1.0 Epic ship.

Why? Why is that what they should do?

Again, you brought up how much of a waste it would be if you were to buy a second conversion kit. But how much of a waste would it be for everyone else if they had three bases and three counters they would never use?

You don't like the way the current kits were done. Fine. The kits can't please everyone. But whenever they're trying to do something like this, there will be tradeoffs. And the alternatives you've proposed would have drawn at least as many complaints themselves, so kindly stop acting like there's one "correct" way of doing it, and FFG screwed up by not going that route.

5 minutes ago, drail14me said:

No, just one for EACH 1.0 Epic ship.

Which would likely be a waste of plastic for a lot of players

I think there are more players out there with only 1 or 2 huge ships than players like you that have each 1 time.

And if they put in 5, then the next player to start complaining is the Empire player that owns 2 raiders and 4 gozantis. They just can't ever please everyone.

2 minutes ago, Revanur said:

Which would likely be a waste of plastic for a lot of players

I think there are more players out there with only 1 or 2 huge ships than players like you that have each 1 time.

And if they put in 5, then the next player to start complaining is the Empire player that owns 2 raiders and 4 gozantis. They just can't ever please everyone.

You're right. Can't please everyone.

And it's really not a big deal just kind of a pain. I can use one Resource Tracker to track two ships. Assign one ship to each side of the tracker. Or just use tokens since I've got a box full. There will be aftermarket bases soon. Or, just break out $30 for two more bases and trackers in a second kit. Just hate to waste all those cards and cardboard.

11 hours ago, Gilarius said:

I'm pretty happy about these kits. I said before that I would be getting 2 kits to convert my 9 huge ships, but now I only need 1.

Why? Because each kit has 10 dials and 10 base tokens - I had assumed there would be 5 dials and 5 base tokens, with the flip side being the alternative faction! And I knew I'd want to fly eg 2 Gozantis at the same time - I don't care if one has the wrong colour dial and base token.

The old bases and pegs will still fit the ships, and I was going to cut a slot in them for the new manoeuvre tool while I wait for 3rd party bases or separate FFG bases to appear. I wasn't ever going to get enough kits for all 9 ships to have new bases!

The tracker dial things aren't important since I have a pile of energy tokens and shield tokens.

The damage deck might run out, but normal damage can be tracked using tokens so it might be ok.

This is good.

Sadly, those people who said that the Shuttle Tyderium photos only show 5 bases are correct: I was confused by the photos being of both sides of the cardboard, rather than them being of different bits of cardboard. Oh well, back to plan A : - 2 conversion kits it has to be! A second damage deck will be useful.

i appreciate that this guy isn't smart enough to realize he's asking that FFG include 5 full epic damage decks per conversion.

25 minutes ago, nikk whyte said:

i appreciate that this guy isn't smart enough to realize he's asking that FFG include 5 full epic damage decks per conversion.

Damage decks can be shared in casual play. Bases can't be.

If y'all can't answer the OP's complaint better than with silly insulting strawmen, seems more and more likely he's got a point.

2 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Damage decks can be shared in casual play. Bases can't be.

If y'all can't answer the OP's complaint better than with silly insulting strawmen, seems more and more likely he's got a point.

I don't disagree that the insults are going a bit far, but you do seem to be ignoring all the other posts in the topic which have been addressing his objections.

4 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

I don't disagree that the insults are going a bit far, but you do seem to be ignoring all the other posts in the topic which have been addressing his objections.

I haven't been. Your contribution, for example, was, "They have to draw the line somewhere. Should they include an infinite number of bases?"

Which is a silly, insulting strawman. (And about three other fallacies.) And I'm 98% sure you're aware of it.

When I say "insulting," I'm not just talking about overt name-calling.

@drail14me , I'm trying to picture the scenario you're wanting to play that you can't because there are only 2 bases in the conversion kit. Is it:

a) 1v1, 2 large ships per side

b) 1v1, 4 large ships on one side

c) a 3-way game, 2-2-1

d) Something else?

In the case of (a), you would need 4 huge bases, but in that case you'd also want 4 of each hardpoint, 4 resource trackers, 4 of the generic teams and commanders, 4 of each cargo, and probably two damage decks.

In the case of (b), you would need 4 huge bases, but again, you'd also want 4 of each hardpoint, 4 resource trackers, 4 of each generic team and commander, and 4 of each hardpoint.

Here's the thing: If they included the extra bases without the extra trackers and upgrades, there still wouldn't be enough stuff to play in every configuration. Without the trackers, you wouldn't even have enough to run 4 ships anyway, so why bother including the bases?

But then, if they did include all that stuff, it would bump up the conversion kit price to something like $50-60. Most of us will never, ever need that much stuff. It would be a tremendous waste for almost everyone.

I really, truly, honestly think that what you want is two conversion kits. No more, no less. The above content list is exactly what is in 2 conversion kits. The only difference is that FFG is giving the rest of us the option to buy only one if we don't need that much stuff. You want two. That is perfectly okay, and there is nothing wrong with it.

Unless you're dealing with case (c), where you're actually wanting to involve all 5 different ships in a 3-way match, in which case you're clearly quite committed to huge ship play. In this case, you probably would need to actually buy a third kit. But seriously, if you're really one of the few players in the community among the 0.5% that is this deep into it, why does it surprise you that you would have to buy more conversion kits than the rest of us? Surely FFG can't expect all huge ship customers to be the same? What's more, if they actually did offer twice the contents in a single conversion (enough to play a full 4 huge ships), you'd still be stuck buying two kits, but now those kits would set you back $100-$120! Even in your case, you're getting a better deal with the smaller kits.

Imagine the waste if all of us bought the conversion kit that gave us stuff for 4 ships and 2 damage decks? I and most other players have certainly no more than 2 huge ships per faction, if that many. We would never have any need for more than 2 huge ships at a time, for any reason. Most of us would end up splitting them with a friend until we ended up with... what the current version of 1 conversion kit is. Except it would create the new problem of only half the players owning each of the unique cards.

I really don't think the devs could have done any better with the implementation of the conversion kits, besides maybe including two of each ship card and base (if they actually didn't as some report). $30 is an incredible price. $60 for twice as much is still a very good price .

Sorry, just one more comment. I have to respond to this:

18 hours ago, drail14me said:

Everything else in the kit will go in the trash. Seems wasteful.

What will go in the trash? The second damage deck? The resource trackers? The other hardpoints, cargo, crew, and teams? You may be wanting 4 targeting batteries in the game. You probably will want 4 Tibanna reserves or Damage Control teams at some point. This is what you will want to fly four huge ships anyway. Why would you throw it away? That is what would seem wasteful to me.

The only things I can think of that would be unneeded are the unique commanders and titles, and any ship cards or cardboard bases that exceed your ship count. This is less than 10% of what's actually included in the kit though... And you could just give the full second kit to your other player so he can have it in case he plays against other friends. Individual ship conversions are also valuable on the secondary market. It doesn't seem wasteful to me at all. It seems like an almost perfect solution.

9 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

I haven't been. Your contribution, for example, was, "They have to draw the line somewhere. Should they include an infinite number of bases?"

Which is a silly, insulting strawman. (And about three other fallacies.) And I'm 98% sure you're aware of it.

When I say "insulting," I'm not just talking about overt name-calling.

Oh, right. You're the guy who cherry-picks quotes and then ignores everything else without making even the tiniest effort to actually understand the arguments involved.

To spell it out for you, my argument is that there is not one correct solution, but several potential options, each with their own pros and cons. To prefer one solution over the others is alright, but to claim that one is the right way, and that the FFG was wrong to choose a different way is simply ridiculous.

16 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

In the case of (b), you would need 4 huge bases, but again, you'd also want 4 of each hardpoint, 4 resource trackers, 4 of each generic team and commander, and 4 of each hardpoint.

In general, I think this response is great, but I'll make the same point I made earlier: in casual play, you can use YASB printouts in lieu of cards. The bases are a different matter. The resource trackers fall somewhere in between.

The Huge CK doesn't bother me, but that's purely because (1) I own every Huge ship, and (2) I'm unlikely to ever want to have more than two of them on the table. If either of these things weren't true, the Huge CK would annoy me, and for the same reason the primary three CKs annoy me ... they're a deliberate choice to make it as inefficient as possible to trade with other people. IMO, efficiency should be prioritized here; bring as many previous customers as possible back in for Epic, and make your money by selling them stuff later. FFG instead prioritized short-term sales. It's a short-sighted and annoying choice ... that doesn't bother me because I am the perfect customer for the product.

1 minute ago, Jeff Wilder said:

In general, I think this response is great, but I'll make the same point I made earlier: in casual play, you can use YASB printouts in lieu of cards. The bases are a different matter.

I do agree with this, but if you're going the DIY route anyway, you might as well buy a 3D printed huge base off etsy for cheap anyway. I'm sure the secondary market will more than suffice here. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that people who will proxy cards could also proxy bases.

3 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

they're a deliberate choice to make it as inefficient as possible to trade with other people.

I thought this was the perfect product for making trading as easy as possible. Everyone buys one kit. You have one of every unique already. But if you fly all empire and your friend flies all rebels, you can trade your extras for his extras and its a win-win. Works out perfectly and no one's missing any crucial uniques (like Maul and Moldy Crow were).

1 hour ago, nikk whyte said:

i appreciate that this guy isn't smart enough to realize he's asking that FFG include 5 full epic damage decks per conversion.

Humm, where did I post that I was asking for 5 damage decks? Never mentioned damage decks. How does asking for three more pieces of plastic equate to 5 damage decks? Is that some of that common core math?

8 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

I thought this was the perfect product for making trading as easy as possible. Everyone buys one kit. You have one of every unique already. But if you fly all empire and your friend flies all rebels, you can trade your extras for his extras and its a win-win. Works out perfectly and no one's missing any crucial uniques (like Maul and Moldy Crow were).

It will depend on the ship-tokens and (for people who insist on having the cards) upgrades counts. But, from previous experience with the original three CKs, it will be very difficult to make full working trades with Huge CKs.

27 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

@drail14me , I'm trying to picture the scenario you're wanting to play that you can't because there are only 2 bases in the conversion kit. Is it:

a) 1v1, 2 large ships per side

b) 1v1, 4 large ships on one side

c) a 3-way game, 2-2-1

d) Something else?

In the case of (a), you would need 4 huge bases, but in that case you'd also want 4 of each hardpoint, 4 resource trackers, 4 of the generic teams and commanders, 4 of each cargo, and probably two damage decks.

In the case of (b), you would need 4 huge bases, but again, you'd also want 4 of each hardpoint, 4 resource trackers, 4 of each generic team and commander, and 4 of each hardpoint.

Here's the thing: If they included the extra bases without the extra trackers and upgrades, there still wouldn't be enough stuff to play in every configuration. Without the trackers, you wouldn't even have enough to run 4 ships anyway, so why bother including the bases?

But then, if they did include all that stuff, it would bump up the conversion kit price to something like $50-60. Most of us will never, ever need that much stuff. It would be a tremendous waste for almost everyone.

I really, truly, honestly think that what you want is two conversion kits. No more, no less. The above content list is exactly what is in 2 conversion kits. The only difference is that FFG is giving the rest of us the option to buy only one if we don't need that much stuff. You want two. That is perfectly okay, and there is nothing wrong with it.

Unless you're dealing with case (c), where you're actually wanting to involve all 5 different ships in a 3-way match, in which case you're clearly quite committed to huge ship play. In this case, you probably would need to actually buy a third kit. But seriously, if you're really one of the few players in the community among the 0.5% that is this deep into it, why does it surprise you that you would have to buy more conversion kits than the rest of us? Surely FFG can't expect all huge ship customers to be the same?

Imagine the waste if all of us bought the conversion kit that gave us stuff for 4 ships and 2 damage decks? I and most other players have certainly no more than 2 huge ships per faction, if that many. We would never have any need for more than 2 huge ships at a time, for any reason. Most of us would end up splitting them with a friend until we ended up with... what the current version of 1 conversion kit is. Except it would create the new problem of only half the players owning each of the unique cards.

I really don't think the devs could have done any better with the implementation of the conversion kits, besides maybe including two of each ship card and base (if they actually didn't as some report). $30 is an incredible price. $60 for twice as much is still a very good price .

By far the best reply of all. Thanks.

So, first, I don't follow closely what FFG released in articles. I saw "Huge Ship Conversion Kit" and pre-ordered right away. Never read the contents because it never crossed my mind that we wouldn't get new bases for all five released ships. So, that was my surprise when I opened the box.

I'd planned a Huge Epic game this weekend for our local store. We have a VERY small play group....two of us. We want to use Huge Ships to get interest to grow our group. So, we were planning on Empire vs Rebels this weekend with two Huge ships per side. I'm lucky enough to have all 5 original Huge ships. My friend that I play with does not. Of course, I volunteered to bring all mine. Well, that didn't work out as we'd planned because the lack of bases.

Huge ships is what I've been waiting on. I'm not into competitive play. Our stores best success in growing a play group is when we ran HotAC missions. I planned to run ALL of my Huge ships and had hoped to have bases for them. Resource tracker can be done with tokens. Got a box full. Cards can be printed off. Bases are the only big holdup. So, my choice is to wait for someone to do a 3D print, in which case each base will probably cost about $10 or go ahead and just buy another kit which I will probably do.

13 minutes ago, drail14me said:

By far the best reply of all. Thanks.

Aww, thanks!

13 minutes ago, drail14me said:

So, we were planning on Empire vs Rebels this weekend with two Huge ships per side. I'm lucky enough to have all 5 original Huge ships. My friend that I play with does not. Of course, I volunteered to bring all mine. Well, that didn't work out as we'd planned because the lack of bases.

For now, I feel like it would be sufficiently cool to get a corvette on each side and/or show off the new wing tool for some fun epic shenanigans. If you can get two games in one day, my personal experience tells me that's more fun than an enormous all-day slog anyway. But your mileage may vary.

I will say you can still play all 4 empire and rebel ships over the course of a day, just with what you have. Build two lists for each side, each with one huge ship, then play two games out. I'd personally try two 400-pt games just to keep it moving. You should be able to get through both games in 4-5 hours if you know what you're doing, maybe even a bit less due to how streamlined Epic has become.

13 minutes ago, drail14me said:

Huge ships is what I've been waiting on. I'm not into competitive play. Our stores best success in growing a play group is when we ran HotAC missions. I planned to run ALL of my Huge ships and had hoped to have bases for them. Resource tracker can be done with tokens. Got a box full. Cards can be printed off. Bases are the only big holdup. So, my choice is to wait for someone to do a 3D print, in which case each base will probably cost about $10 or go ahead and just buy another kit which I will probably do.

I've been super eager for epic 2.0 as well, as my casual play group was doing 500-pt games in 1st edition (which I couldn't stand, but they loved). This will make all that stuff more streamlined and faster-paced, while still feeling epic and fun.

I think 2 conversion kits is your best bet, just for the extra cards (so you can run 3-4 copies of something if you need to), and you can make up anything beyond that with printed parts.

Fly Casual!

I’d rather they had 4, but I ain’t mad about it. I think for most players 2 is enough. For the price that’s perfectly reasonable.

It’s already been mentioned, but it seems like a good solution would be to sell bases separately.

And damage decks...in faction-specific styles. 😈

1 hour ago, drail14me said:

Huge ships is what I've been waiting on. I'm not into competitive play.

Same here.

Quote

So, first, I don't follow closely what FFG released in articles. I saw "Huge Ship Conversion Kit" and pre-ordered right away. Never read the contents because it never crossed my mind that we wouldn't get new bases for all five released ships

I knew there were only 2 bases, and was admittedly peeved at first, because I have almost a dozen huge ships. The only holdup with the conversion kit is that the new maneuver template is not backwards compatible.

While it's nice to keep them all on stands permanently, I will have to admit that I have at most only every tabled 3 at a time; maybe ONCE I used 4. So I can certainly move stands around.

So I'm going to cope with only getting 2 stands, especially with the expectation that I might buy a 2.0-rereleased ship to repaint, and will certainly buy the first all-new 2.0 Huge ship to drop. Then I'll have 3 stands (or more, over time).

Quote

So, that was my surprise when I opened the box.

I'd planned a Huge Epic game this weekend for our local store. We have a VERY small play group....two of us. We want to use Huge Ships to get interest to grow our group. So, we were planning on Empire vs Rebels this weekend with two Huge ships per side. I'm lucky enough to have all 5 original Huge ships. My friend that I play with does not. Of course, I volunteered to bring all mine. Well, that didn't work out as we'd planned because the lack of bases.

I planned to run ALL of my Huge ships and had hoped to have bases for them. Resource tracker can be done with tokens. Got a box full. Cards can be printed off. Bases are the only big holdup.

Yeah, it would be pretty dang frustrating to be caught off guard like that, especially with a time crunch of not having great options.

Quote

So, my choice is to wait for someone to do a 3D print, in which case each base will probably cost about $10 or go ahead and just buy another kit which I will probably do.

The other possible "fix" would be for some 3rd party to create a set of acrylic templates that move the ship 2.0 style but are compatible with 1.0 bases. Disadvantages are that it might require a template for each possible move, and/or be too much of a limited run product to be worth the while for someone to bother creating.

But I'd be pleased as punch if I could use my old bases in 2.0, so if there any 3rd party acrylic makers out there listening. . .

3 hours ago, drail14me said:

Humm, where did I post that I was asking for 5 damage decks? Never mentioned damage decks. How does asking for three more pieces of plastic equate to 5 damage decks? Is that some of that common core math?

Asking for 5 full conversions means you need 5 full damage decks, my dude.