On 11/15/2019 at 4:28 PM, Faerie1979 said:If the point total is high enough to allow Huge ships, there's possibly 7 intuitive values, 8 for Engagement phase. Huge ships have Initiative of 7 or 8, with Engagement Initiative of 1 or 0. And certain upgrades can let a ship act on initiative 7.
75pts is sufficient for a C-ROC or Gozanti.
I have now been 'politely requested' to not fly my 'ace' C-ROC again!
25 minutes ago, Gilarius said:75pts is sufficient for a C-ROC or Gozanti.
I have now been 'politely requested' to not fly my 'ace' C-ROC again!
Ran people over a few times?
50 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:Ran people over a few times?
Only once. That wasn't the reason why the other players didn't like it. It was the Ion Cannon Battery they didn't like - having Lock and multiple Calculate tokens (Damage Control Team gave me Reinforce into Calculate, so IG88d crew plus 000 mostly got me 3 calculates) on 4 dice meant that the Kimogila and Tie Punisher players alternated being ionised and not really playing the game! Meanwhile, I blocked the Sith Infiltrator's de-cloaking possibilities 2 turns in a row.
Not my fault they had brought tanky ordnance builds to an Aces game - and then they all went for my beast, so I sniped everyone's initial damage to earn more VPs.
I am intending to take it to a System Open Aces High side event though, unless huge ships get banned. :)
4 minutes ago, Gilarius said:I am intending to take it to a System Open Aces High side event though, unless huge ships get banned.
The SOS Aces High pods are being advertised as Hyperspace and Extended format only (on top of being adjusted in some manner they haven't mentioned yet). Both of those are tournament formats and Huge ships are excluded from the tournament format currently (casual Standard games and Epic Battles only) so I'm thinking it'll be a very strong "Nope" from the organizers.
8 minutes ago, Gilarius said:It was the Ion Cannon Battery they didn't like - having Lock and multiple Calculate tokens (Damage Control Team gave me Reinforce into Calculate, so IG88d crew plus 000 mostly got me 3 calculates) on 4 dice meant that the Kimogila and Tie Punisher players alternated being ionised and not really playing the game!
While I understand their frustration, they did try and gang up on a stunlock juggernaut while using Lock based weaponry (from what you describe) expecting to use their missiles and torps.
To bad you couldn't fit Lando instead of 0-0-0. DCT/88D/Lando with being the last one to shoot means you could spend your reinforce token for a nice double modded pseudo lock + calculates for the Ion Cannon Battery.
39 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:While I understand their frustration, they did try and gang up on a stunlock juggernaut while using Lock based weaponry (from what you describe) expecting to use their missiles and torps.
To bad you couldn't fit Lando instead of 0-0-0. DCT/88D/Lando with being the last one to shoot means you could spend your reinforce token for a nice double modded pseudo lock + calculates for the Ion Cannon Battery.
I agree entirely - but I couldn't afford Lando as well as the other 2 upgrades, but having 2 actions meant I could get a Lock to go with the calculates except when I was fixing criticals. The ICB was essential though! I only fired my front gun twice. They also decided to go for me rather than one another, it wasn't as though I was moving quickly around the mat!
1 minute ago, Gilarius said:They also decided to go for me rather than one another, it wasn't as though I was moving quickly around the mat!
They thought your C-ROC was a piñata maybe and were hoping for candy?
1 minute ago, Hiemfire said:They thought your C-ROC was a piñata maybe and were hoping for candy?
Possibly, we did call it a 'points pinata' when we discussed it. But the first player to hit me fired a plasma torpedo and removed all 4 shields.
1 hour ago, Hiemfire said:The SOS Aces High pods are being advertised as Hyperspace and Extended format only (on top of being adjusted in some manner they haven't mentioned yet). Both of those are tournament formats and Huge ships are excluded from the tournament format currently (casual Standard games and Epic Battles only) so I'm thinking it'll be a very strong "Nope" from the organizers.
Sadness. They are spoilsports sometimes. The C-ROC isn't actually that competitive - if the other players ignore it and go for one another. Only doing 1 damage per turn means it can't score easily by killing anything, unless undamaged ships approach it and allow themselves to be sniped.
The adjustments are, I think, explained in the link from the prize page - two rounds, with scoring, over 2 groups of 4 players per mat.
Where do I get 4 hyperspace tokens to put on the table? I only have 2.
2 hours ago, skins1924 said:Where do I get 4 hyperspace tokens to put on the table? I only have 2.
I copied mine on my all-in-one printer and glued the printouts to a cereal box. Now I have all 4 when I play at home. At the store almost everybody has theirs from the Core Set, so there's no shortage.
I toyed with the idea of getting another Core Set, but I already have 11 TIE fighters (2nd edition components for 8 of them). I could use more X-wing dials, though.
On 11/16/2019 at 1:02 PM, Tellonius said:We tried quick builds once, but considered them to be too powerful! The points were updated a couple times - but the quick builds were not!
wedge + R4 + ProTorps + outmanoeuvre as thread level 3 ..... OP! NPE! ETC!
Sun Fac Quick Build: Thread Level 3 - Ensnare, Predator, AFTERBURNERS and Shield upgrade. 2 of them that he cannot take usually. Shield Upgrade is pretty decent on him seeing it gives him that much wanted shield for crit protection and even thinking of what he can do with Afterburners makes me shudder.
That feels really OP for TL 3 as that brings him at 92 points for current points, but also allowing him combos he cannot take usually.
On 11/24/2019 at 2:57 AM, skins1924 said:Where do I get 4 hyperspace tokens to put on the table? I only have 2.
My playgroup has asked everyone to bring theirs. We also are entirely fine with printed/photocopied ones as well.
Ok, so this came up in our 8-player game tonight, and had quite an impact actually.
So RAW the rules say that you score after attacking. (Both First Hit and Shots Confirmed) uses this terminology. Which I actually didn't pick up on until the game.
We had 2 players running bomb heavy builds, not being aware of this finer point. So we as a group ruled that bomb damage should count (although some people didn't really like this).
Epic is meant to be more casual, but Aces High also seems to be the most attractive one to be used in tournaments.
What is the general feeling out there.
Can damage from bombs score points? Was the wording as written used specifically to exclude bomb damage, or was it an oversight?
Ps. I was one of the bomb players. We played 75 points, I came with a fully loaded Sol Sixxa and 3 of my 5 points came from bombs.
Scurrg H-6 bomber - •Sol Sixxa - 75
•Sol Sixxa -
Cunning Commander
(46)
Crack Shot (1)
Dorsal Turret (3)
Proton Bombs (5)
Proximity Mines (6)
•
Havoc
(4)
Veteran Turret Gunner (8)
•“Genius” (2)
Total: 75/200
View in the X-Wing Squad Builder
As an additional note. I also happened to do first blood damage on myself with a bomb. For this I wasn't awarded a point, but all other players were effectively denied my first blood point.
So I can see why people see bombs as potential problems in this format. But there are a horde other ways to get self damaged.
AND there are also things like DMS for Scum. Should you score points if this happens to do First Hit or Shot Confirmed?
Edited by Bort
2 hours ago, Bort said:although some people didn't really like this
I wouldn’t either.
😂
However you and another turned up with a build without knowing the rules so the group adapted so everyone could play instead of punishing your build which may not have fared well in Aces High. Cool awesome Epic play stuff, but as you found a can of unexpected worms was opened as often happens with home brew. Stick to the play tested format you’ve paid for... “after a ship performs an attack” is what counts not damage from other sources. Otherwise asteroids will be claiming first blood.
6 hours ago, Sasajak said:Otherwise asteroids will be claiming first blood.
As it is they might not claim first blood, but they deny first blood. So does anything else that does damage, whether you allow it to score or not.
My question is, would you really fly that much different whether bombs scored or not? Would you deliberately hit a mine knowing that I can't score from it just to deny someone points?
6 hours ago, Sasajak said:Stick to the play tested format you’ve paid for...
So many things comes to mind about that statement. But I'll let sleeping dogs lie for now.
9 hours ago, Bort said:Should you score points if this happens to do First Hit or Shot Confirmed?
If you really want payloads to score points I would propably go with some additional rules:
If you damage yourself the first time place the VP on your ships card.
During restoring gather all your payloads from the field of play.
I'm going to extend the issue a bit, by generalising.
(a) Should other means of damage allow for scoring. RAW says you only score when attacking. Main question: Is RAW the only reason you wouldn't allow these or are they legitimately too good? Epic is meant to be more casual, so house rules can come up overriding RAW. (for instance I have noticed several people banning Lone Wolf)
So what about any of the following?
These all seem legitimate part of the game to me, most notably the first 2 that can be used by more factions. I do mostly play Scum, and it seems we have the most indirect means of damage, so this might be my main reason for wanting all means of damage to count equally.
(b) How should self damage be handled. This one actually breaks down even further. As RAW you can easily self damage to deny First Blood. I like
@Singulativ
's suggestion of placing the VP on the ships card. It works for first blood, but now what happens when you self damage your last health away? I believe self-damaging the last damage should be handled the same way as fleeing... but wait... RAW doesn't say it anywhere does it?
There are quite a number of ways to self damage, which breaks the entire format a bit.
(c) And now the opposite... should multiple first bloods be allowed after ships are repaired. (typically shields regained)
In my playgroup, we've been allowing bombs to score for first blood, but we've also added points for half-pointing someone. If someone 'self' damages, the first blood point can no longer be earned from them.
Frankly, I'm happy for someone who invests in something which does damage to get points for damaging someone with it. It would really eat into the options available if certain cards couldn't score/were outright banned (I will speak in defence of Lone Wolf, as it can really help certain chassis be viable in an environment where they'd otherwise die in a fire).
5 hours ago, Bort said:some stuff that I read
at my flgs we play first blood points can still be gained at any enemy health so long as you are the first enemy to deal damage. (rocks, friendly bombs, pilot abilities, etc. do not count as enemies, so you can take damage but you do not negate first blood). my flgs plays that first blood is gained once and can only be gained again if the ship dies. in regards to fleeing my flgs plays that purposeful self killing (rock, triggering ability, etc. will cause you to lose 2vp. now mind you that the final rule that I put up only works if your flgs has a group of trustworthy players who will honestly say "yes I died on purpose." if they did. if you feel I'm wrong on any of these points please reply why or what you think is wrong.
6 hours ago, Bort said:Diamond-boron Missiles
This one still technically happens "while attacking" so it counts.
17 hours ago, Bort said:As an additional note. I also happened to do first blood damage on myself with a bomb. For this I wasn't awarded a point, but all other players were effectively denied my first blood point.
How we've been playing it, anytime that you remove points from the game, you lose points. Remove your own first blood in any way, you lose a point. Fly off the board with bounties, you lose those points. You can also go negative. We also play an hour, instead of to a point limit.
2 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:This one still technically happens "while attacking" so it counts.
It does... but, only the original target is the defender. All the other ships at range 0-1 excluding the original defender can take damage from the missile, but they are not defending. So, RAW you can't score from them. Not saying I agree, quite the opposite. But technically DB-Missile is in the same boat as the other things I mentioned for any additional ships hit.
4 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:How we've been playing it, anytime that you remove points from the game, you lose points. Remove your own first blood in any way, you lose a point. Fly off the board with bounties, you lose those points. You can also go negative. We also play an hour, instead of to a point limit.
We also played for time, but this was mostly because we wanted to fit in multiple games with some people arriving late for the first round. But it works well.
25 minutes ago, bobafett1228 said:at my flgs we play first blood points can still be gained at any enemy health so long as you are the first enemy to deal damage. (rocks, friendly bombs, pilot abilities, etc. do not count as enemies, so you can take damage but you do not negate first blood). my flgs plays that first blood is gained once and can only be gained again if the ship dies. in regards to fleeing my flgs plays that purposeful self killing (rock, triggering ability, etc. will cause you to lose 2vp. now mind you that the final rule that I put up only works if your flgs has a group of trustworthy players who will honestly say "yes I died on purpose." if they did. if you feel I'm wrong on any of these points please reply why or what you think is wrong.
I agree with this, and if anything was up to me I would run it the same. Basically "first blood" is a point for the first opponent damaging you. That's it. (no multiple first bloods from repairing, no denying first blood using self-damaging tricks).
As for "trustworthy". Luckily flying over a rock is not a guarantee, so its hard to deliberately do it. And the other things I mention are more or less obvious that if you do it on purpose.
A good rule of thumb for whether or not First Blood points should be given: imagine that the battle is being watched by a room full of Hutts. Would they approve of the fireworks that caused the damage?
I suspect they'd approve of dirty tricks and foul play.
5 hours ago, Bort said:It does... but, only the original target is the defender. All the other ships at range 0-1 excluding the original defender can take damage from the missile, but they are not defending. So, RAW you can't score from them. Not saying I agree, quite the opposite. But technically DB-Missile is in the same boat as the other things I mentioned for any additional ships hit.
Correct me if I am wrong as I don't have the rules in hand, but RAW only refers to damage done while attacking to get points and doesn't say anything about whether or not a ship is defending or is a defender.
9 hours ago, 5050Saint said:Correct me if I am wrong as I don't have the rules in hand, but RAW only refers to damage done while attacking to get points and doesn't say anything about whether or not a ship is defending or is a defender.
"First Hit: After a ship performs an attack, if the defender was at full heatlh..."
"Shot confirmed: After a ship performs an attack, if the defender was destroyed..."
Direct quotes from the Aces High rules as written in the Epic Battles rulebook.
*Edit. Once again... I'm fighting against RAW to have all damage count. But its hard to argue with people if they have RAW on their side.
Edited by Bort