On 10/29/2020 at 1:00 PM, ComtriS said:

Resurrecting this thread as I think it's time that we as a community decide what to do about the 12 CK heroes (as FFG never will at this point).

Here's my attempt, keeping @Zaltyre 's changes, and based around @rugal 's work.

I think it makes sense to keep all the numbers unchanged and just try to balance the Hero Ability/Heroic Feat. Please let me know what you think of this set below.

Brother Glyr: unchanged from @Zaltyre 's version

FFG CK abilities:

Hero Ability: In addition to your 2 actions on your turn, you always receive 2 movement points.

Heroic Feat: Use at the start of your turn to recover all Fatigue. Until the start of your next turn, each time you suffer 1 or more Heart, you suffer 1 fewer Heart, to a minimum of 0.

Red Scorpion: Unchanged from @Zaltyre 's version

FFG CK abilities:

Hero Ability: At the end of your turn, you may suffer 1 Fatigue to recover 1 Heart, or suffer 1 Heart to recover 1 Fatigue.

Heroic Feat: Use when you are attacked to force the attacking monster to reroll some or all of the attack dice (you choose which dice). The new results must be applied.

Mad Carthos: Unchanged from @Zaltyre 's version

FFG CK abilities:

Hero Ability: Once per turn, when you use a skill that costs 1 Fatigue, reduce the cost to 0 Fatigue.

Heroic Feat: Action: Perform an attack with a Magic weapon. This attack deals +3 Heart.

Varikas the Dead: Unchanged from @Zaltyre 's version

FFG CK abilities:

Hero Ability: At the start of your turn, recover 1 Fatigue.

Heroic Feat: Use at the start of your turn if you are knocked out. Recover all Heart and Fatigue. You may still perform 2 actions this turn.

Laughin Buldar : unchanged from @rugal 's version.

FFG CK abilities:

Hero Ability: You may treat 1 of your equipped Melee weapons as if it only had 1 hand icon (even if it has 2 hand icons).

Heroic Feat: Use as your entire activation to perform 3 attack actions. If you do, you cannot move this turn, not even by suffering Fatigue.

Hugo the Glorious : similar to FFG's CK version. Small tweak to the Hero Ability to allow all defense dice to reroll. This is also the one case where I'd like to change stats a little bit; thinking about changing the health to 14.

FFG CK abilities:

Hero Ability: If you do not move this round, you may reroll 1 of your defense dice each time you are attacked.

Heroic Feat: Use at the start of your turn. Double the Heart on your attack roll for each attack you perform this turn.

Aurim: Similar to FFG's version. Tweak to the Heroic Feat to improve consistency -- now keeps drawing search cards until he finds a potion. Makes his Hero Ability always useful, and makes him less capable of being a gold generator for the hero team.

FFG CK abilities:

Hero Ability: Each time you use a Potion, you and each hero adjacent to you are affected.

Heroic Feat: Use at the start of your turn to draw a Search card.

Bogran the Shadow: Similar to @rugal 's change. Increase Pierce to 2. And change Heroic Feat to target adjacent.

FFG CK abilities:

Hero Ability: Each time you attack a monster adjacent to another hero, your attack gains +1 Heart

Heroic Feat: Action: Perform an attack, then place a hero token in your space and remove your figure from the map. At the start of your next turn, replace the hero token with your figure.

Eliam : Similar to @rugal 's change. Kept the Heroic Feat. New Hero Ability.

FFG CK abilities:

Hero Ability: While you have 2 Melee weapons equipped, each time you attack an adjacent monster and do not roll an X, deal 1 Heart to one other monster adjacent to you.

Heroic Feat: Use at the end of your turn. Until the start of your next turn, each time you are attacked by an adjacent monster, you may suffer 1 Fatigue to attack that monster before it rolls its attack dice.

Kirga : Combination of FFG's version and @rugal 's version. Kept FFG's Heroic Feat, used @rugal 's Heroic Feat as a Hero Ability and made it weaker. Might have to add something like "You do not block line of sight".

FFG CK abilities:

Hero Ability: A monster may only target you with an attack if there are no other heroes closer to that monster and in its line of sight.

Heroic Feat: Use during another figure's activation to immediately perform a move action. You may not interrupt another player's action unless it is a move action.

Landrec the Wise : Similar to @rugal 's. Improved the Hero Ability.

FFG CK abilities:

Hero Ability: Each time you attack and do not roll at least 1 Surge, gain 1 Surge.

Heroic Feat: Use when performing an attack, before rolling dice. This attack gains: Surge Surge: +5 Heart

Tobin Farslayer : Similar to FFG's version. Slight improvement to Hero Ability. Added the option for +2 Range.

FFG CK abilities:

Hero Ability: Each of your attacks that targets a monster that is at least 3 spaces away from you gains: Surge: +2 Heart

Heroic Feat: Use after attacking a monster that is at least 5 spaces away from you (after attack dice are rolled) to deal +3 Heart to that monster.

You asked me my opinions so here they are :

Which font do you use ? It seems like not the official one ?

I love Glyr so much ! Perfect. And same for Mad Carthos, Varikas and Red Scopion.

Maybe Buldar's feat should be kept as it but rewrite, the way it is, it is not clear. Maybe "action : for each monster in your line of sight, perform an attack with a melee weapon targeting that monster". Should ve simplier and clearer.

I am not so sure about Bogran. I was thinking of many other ideas like for his hero ability "each time you enter another hero space, you may move 1 space" and his feat "action : remove your figure from the map ans place it adjacent to any hero, then perform an attack". But I need to test this before having real feedback.

kirga was a brain killer to me, but maybe the adjacent is a good option. The real threat on her is that she has good health and can avoid many attacks, so with familiars, this is horrible, and with the wolf this can be a weird situation. I do think that her hero ability should be totally removed and changed as they did with Ronan's Pico. And her feat seems a bit weak to me. I was thinking about hero ability "You lose movement points at the start of your turn instead of end of turn. You may spend movement points at any time during any player's turn as long as you do not interrupteur another player's action useless it is a move action" but no idea now for the feat

Landrec should read "no surge" and not 0 surge. But offering this to all heroes is too I think. Many especially during act 1. I think it should be limited to once a round and giving him +1 stamina. Most weapons have around 50% chance of having a surge, and then it gives to 100%. Ouch !

Tobin. Giving him either + 2 range of surge + 2 hearts is interresting but I would leave it as it. Feat coule be changed to : "use when you perform an attack targeting a monster at 5 or more space. That monster suffers 3 heart"

4 minutes ago, ComtriS said:

I'm not sure if it's too strong. I agree that it's strong though, and it requires the Overlord to definitely plan around more than anything else. But that's just like AoE. Is it really better than a Runemaster? Runemaster can attack 8 monsters with blast if Overlord lets him. Also the ability is different from Unrelenting, though it's similar -- Unrelenting says "one of the same monsters" while this is "a different figure".

I don't like the change you made to Eliam. There are two reasons. 1) it's far too weak. Again, if you compare it to Trenloe, it's significantly weaker and Trenloe has a grey die (not a brown die). 2) my goal (and I think our goal as a community) should be to make minimal changes to the CK cards as much as we possibly can. So if it's possible to keep the spirit of the card, keep the stats, keep hero ability, keep the heroic feat, and just make minor tweaks to make it work that would be ideal. The reason for this is because it seems like that's exactly what FFG did with all the H&M packs for the CK cards. They mostly just did minor tweaks to balance the cards. I think that should be our goal as well.

I'm not sure what you mean by "too strong"? Trenloe is one of the strongest Warriors, yes. But we're not here to change him. We're here to balance these CK cards in the presence of Trenloe, One-Fist, Mordrog, Syndrael, etc. Otherwise, like you say, people will just throw Hugo in the box. Hugo should be unique / different enough, and still not be so broken that he causes people to ignore Trenloe, One-Fist, Mordrog, Syndrael, etc.

About your suggestion: "Each time you roll a black defense die, you can reroll it once" -- I think this is far too restrictive. It's basically requiring that the heroes dig for Stone Armor. Maybe they'll get it and Hugo will be happy. Maybe they won't and Hugo will be miserable. What issue do you have with rerolling all defense dice?

And yes, I was back and forth between +2 health and +1 fatigue. I wasn't sure which. However, I decided on the +1 fatigue, because if you look at what class to play as Hugo he really fits Knight the best and Knights need the fatigue. This does a lot more for him than the +2 health. And it's one thing that can actually separate him from Trenloe, even though he won't have quite as much fatigue as Syndrael or Mordrog.

Remember, he actually needs to not be thrown into the box and forgotten about.

Again, Giving a 2xp ability as base ability is too strong. I won't follow on this one.

So, for Hugo, what about "each time you roll blanc defense die, you may reroll it until you roll no blank". Should give him a strong defense and could be played well as well tank. 3 stamina is enough for a knight

7 minutes ago, rugal said:

You asked me my opinions so here they are :

Which font do you use ? It seems like not the official one ?

I used the official fonts ("Gara Scenario Descent" on the ability text). Yours do look better than mine, so maybe you can send me the correct ones.

7 minutes ago, rugal said:

I love Glyr so much ! Perfect. And same for Mad Carthos, Varikas and Red Scopion.

Yes, these shouldn't change.

7 minutes ago, rugal said:

Maybe Buldar's feat should be kept as it but rewrite, the way it is, it is not clear. Maybe "action : for each monster in your line of sight, perform an attack with a melee weapon targeting that monster". Should ve simplier and clearer.

Yes, I've reviewed this again and reviewed the FFG heroes. Here's the new text: "Perform a Melee attack for each monster figure in your line of sight." This is consistent with the text on Dezra the Vile.

7 minutes ago, rugal said:

I am not so sure about Bogran. I was thinking of many other ideas like for his hero ability "each time you enter another hero space, you may move 1 space" and his feat "action : remove your figure from the map ans place it adjacent to any hero, then perform an attack". But I need to test this before having real feedback.

I like Bogran a lot actually. I haven't tried him yet, but I think it would require a lot of planning on the heroes side and the Overlord's side. And Pierce 2 can't be ignored. It's also mostly consistent with the CK version of the card. I think your idea is also interesting "each time you enter a hero's space, move 1 space" -- this would require planning as well. But there's no synergy between the Feat and Ability, which is part of what makes him cool. Also, I think the ability I have is very thematic with his character. He's in the shadow...

About your Feat suggestion, I would worry about this a lot. It could allow him to warp all across the map if he's far away from the party. I'd worry about this.

7 minutes ago, rugal said:

kirga was a brain killer to me, but maybe the adjacent is a good option. The real threat on her is that she has good health and can avoid many attacks, so with familiars, this is horrible, and with the wolf this can be a weird situation. I do think that her hero ability should be totally removed and changed as they did with Ronan's Pico. And her feat seems a bit weak to me. I was thinking about hero ability "You lose movement points at the start of your turn instead of end of turn. You may spend movement points at any time during any player's turn as long as you do not interrupteur another player's action useless it is a move action" but no idea now for the feat

I really like my suggestion on Kirga, but I have absolutely no idea how good/bad this will be. It could be broken. It could be terrible. I'd really like to try this out.

Otherwise, I have no idea what to do with her. Spending movement on other player's turns is a cool concept, but there has to be a reason for it.

7 minutes ago, rugal said:

Landrec should read "no surge" and not 0 surge. But offering this to all heroes is too I think. Many especially during act 1. I think it should be limited to once a round and giving him +1 stamina. Most weapons have around 50% chance of having a surge, and then it gives to 100%. Ouch !

Yes, you're right. The precedent is Augur Grisom -- "no Heart". Landrec's stats are incredibly weak. If you check the character maker ( https://dataflux.nl/descent/hero/ ), he's at a -3. So his ability/feat need to compensate for that and be very strong. Just offering 1 surge to himself, sometimes, is far too weak. That's significantly weaker than High Mage Quellen, and Quellen has better stats.

Landrec: 3/10/4, Brown, 1/3/5/2

Quellen: 4/10/4, Grey, 1/3/5/2

Quellen has +1 speed, a better defense die, and 1-2 fatigue recovery. Landrec just has <1 surge (which is about the same as <1 fatigue recovery). I think it's worth experimenting with Landrec to see how many surges he would actually hand out, but I did some quick math:

4 Blue-Red attacks: +2.3 Surges
4 Blue-Yellow attacks: +1.7 Surges
4 Blue-Green attacks: +1.3 Surges

8 Blue-Red attacks: +4.7 Surges
8 Blue-Yellow attacks: +3.3 Surges
8 Blue-Green attacks: +2.7 Surges

So how many attacks do heroes do every round? If they're only doing 4 attacks per round, even if they all had Blue-Red dice (I guess Landrec would have to be a Battlemage), that would still be +2.3 surges. Quellen would arguably still be better. If your hero team is able to manage 8 attacks per round of Blue-Red dice, that would be +4.7 surges. Now there's actually an argument that this might be stronger than Quellen. But this is extremely difficult to achieve. And it gets weaker as soon as heroes get better weapons. And Landrec would have to play Battlemage, which is not a very good class.

So I think this is fairly balanced. My challenge to you would be to come up with a starting hero team that abuses Landrec (with the ability I designed). I would think it's very hard to do so. The best class/weapon is Marshal's War Hammer for Surge: +2 damage. And the best shop item is probably Bearded Axe. Maybe Landrec could work as a Battlemage/Beastmaster, who eventually finds a Bearded Axe? But is this any better than One-Fist?

7 minutes ago, rugal said:

Tobin. Giving him either + 2 range of surge + 2 hearts is interresting but I would leave it as it. Feat coule be changed to : "use when you perform an attack targeting a monster at 5 or more space. That monster suffers 3 heart"

Okay. The question is would you play him as is? I recently played a campaign where the heroes wanted to play a high mobility, high damage scout. They ended up choosing Jain, not Tobin. Tobin is just not good enough the way he is. I'm not sure that adding +2 Range is good enough. Maybe giving him +2 Range as a base trait, so he always has it or something.

3 minutes ago, rugal said:

Again, Giving a 2xp ability as base ability is too strong. I won't follow on this one.

It's not the same. You can't attack the same monster. That's a big difference. If the monsters are separated, then the ability does nothing.

3 minutes ago, rugal said:

So, for Hugo, what about "each time you roll blanc defense die, you may reroll it until you roll no blank". Should give him a strong defense and could be played well as well tank. 3 stamina is enough for a knight

That's interesting, I like it. It improves Brown dice a lot. But would you really want to buy brown dice armor for Hugo? Probably not. And the reroll once is better for grey dice (+0.39 vs +0.27) and black dice (+0.44 vs +0.43) and simpler.

Reroll blanks:
Brown: 0.67 -> 1.33 (+0.67)
Grey: 1.33 -> 1.60 (+0.27)
Black: 2.17 -> 2.60 (+0.43)
Average: +0.46

Reroll once:
Brown: 0.66 -> 1.00 (+0.34)
Grey: 1.33 -> 1.72 (+0.39)
Black: 2.17 -> 2.61 (+0.44)
Average: +0.39

But still, if you look at these numbers, they're not good enough. It needs to hit +1 to be comparable to Trenloe. If we can hit +1, then we don't need any other changes, but without the +1 then I think we need to increase stamina by +1. Also, 3 stamina can be enough for a knight, but depends how much that knight is defending vs advancing. I suspect Hugo will want to be defending a lot, which costs fatigue. Again, the question is would you consider playing Hugo with this change instead of Trenloe/Syndrael/Mordrog? I think he becomes interesting with the possibility of 4 fatigue, Stone Armor, and Reroll each die once. That's compelling and a real tank.

15 minutes ago, ComtriS said:

I used the official fonts ("Gara Scenario Descent" on the ability text). Yours do look better than mine, so maybe you can send me the correct ones.

( https://dataflux.nl/descent/hero/ )

I use this a base it create really impressive almost real heroes.

18 minutes ago, ComtriS said:

I like Bogran a lot actually. I haven't tried him yet, but I think it would require a lot of planning on the heroes side and the Overlord's side. And Pierce 2 can't be ignored. It's also mostly consistent with the CK version of the card. I think your idea is also interesting "each time you enter a hero's space, move 1 space" -- this would require planning as well. But there's no synergy between the Feat and Ability, which is part of what makes him cool. Also, I think the ability I have is very thematic with his character. He's in the shadow...

But moving through heroes and gaining free square move is also a shadow : a hero can hide another one ! 😉

20 minutes ago, ComtriS said:

I really like my suggestion on Kirga, but I have absolutely no idea how good/bad this will be. It could be broken. It could be terrible. I'd really like to try this out.

Maybe tests are needed

31 minutes ago, ComtriS said:

Okay. The question is would you play him as is? I recently played a campaign where the heroes wanted to play a high mobility, high damage scout. They ended up choosing Jain, not Tobin. Tobin is just not good enough the way he is. I'm not sure that adding +2 Range is good enough. Maybe giving him +2 Range as a base trait, so he always has it or something.

Yes I did ! He is indeed a killer as a bounty hunter with long range and feat, he can easily kill any monster from afar

Once all of these ideas for these 12 missing heroes are hashed out, and a reasonable agreement occurs across those participating, @ComtriS I would appreciate it if you would post new images of the 12 heroes with the "final" version of their respective stats and abilities. I would like to gather them and add them to my collection. I will then use inDesign, and re-create them matching FFG's style, and post them for use within my D2e Card Viewer as community created assets. Thanks.

1 hour ago, rugal said:

I use this a base it create really impressive almost real heroes.

I checked this and he's using the same font I am. The only difference is my font size is a little bit larger. I fixed this, but it looks like @any2cards is going to create final hero cards that look nicer than mine anyway.

1 hour ago, rugal said:

But moving through heroes and gaining free square move is also a shadow : a hero can hide another one ! 😉

But that's from the rulebook. You're just granting free movement. I'm not sure how that's related to the shadow.

1 hour ago, rugal said:

Maybe tests are needed

Yes, I agree. I think we're nearing that point where we need to test. I don't think we need to test @Zaltyre 's, but I'd like to test the ones that you're least convinced of: Kirga, Eliam, Landrec, Aurim.

Maybe you can test these if you have somebody to test with: Hugo, Laughin, Tobin, Bogran.

1 hour ago, rugal said:

Yes I did ! He is indeed a killer as a bounty hunter with long range and feat, he can easily kill any monster from afar

Would you consider picking him over Jain? He significantly lacks mobility, that's a huge issue. And Jain (Wildlander) still hits very hard, and has tons of movement.

45 minutes ago, any2cards said:

Once all of these ideas for these 12 missing heroes are hashed out, and a reasonable agreement occurs across those participating, @ComtriS I would appreciate it if you would post new images of the 12 heroes with the "final" version of their respective stats and abilities. I would like to gather them and add them to my collection. I will then use inDesign, and re-create them matching FFG's style, and post them for use within my D2e Card Viewer as community created assets. Thanks.

Definitely! Thanks for your assistance. It would be nice if we could get more people participating though. I don't want this to just be decided between @rugal and myself.

I have already tested Tobin Hugo Bogran and Laughin

Tobin is really good the way he is, just a bit boring. And I don't like Jain so I will use any other heroes as soon as I can (because 8 health is few and having full fatigue lock almost all skills)

Hugo is boring I don't like him.

Bogran with Pierce 2 is good but he is boring and I played him using my old feat and I don't like him that much.

Laughin is a killer machine really good to play and can be devastating but 3 speed ans 3 stamina are big disadvantages so balance him.

But don't forget that some heroes had their abilities totally changed from CK like Ronan and Challara so some should also be changed like Eliam, Aurim, Bogran

1 hour ago, any2cards said:

Once all of these ideas for these 12 missing heroes are hashed out, and a reasonable agreement occurs across those participating, @ComtriS I would appreciate it if you would post new images of the 12 heroes with the "final" version of their respective stats and abilities. I would like to gather them and add them to my collection. I will then use inDesign, and re-create them matching FFG's style, and post them for use within my D2e Card Viewer as community created assets. Thanks.

Great idea, I can't wait to print them out - the figures I bought for these heroes would finally have a meaning. With current abilities no one ever wanted to pick them during our plays (just to provide some extra motivation ).

A little oppinion - the Bouldar image a little cartonish indeed, I liked the first version from here better.

Still such a great community we have here, cheers lads!

25 minutes ago, rugal said:

I have already tested Tobin Hugo Bogran and Laughin

Tobin is really good the way he is, just a bit boring. And I don't like Jain so I will use any other heroes as soon as I can (because 8 health is few and having full fatigue lock almost all skills)

Hugo is boring I don't like him.

Bogran with Pierce 2 is good but he is boring and I played him using my old feat and I don't like him that much.

Laughin is a killer machine really good to play and can be devastating but 3 speed ans 3 stamina are big disadvantages so balance him.

But don't forget that some heroes had their abilities totally changed from CK like Ronan and Challara so some should also be changed like Eliam, Aurim, Bogran

I'm concerned that Laughin is a little bit weak. Sure his Feat is very strong, but does his Ability really do much?

Whichever heroes you're willing to test, go for it. Just let me know which ones you're testing. I'd like to test some of these out myself.

2 minutes ago, kbalazsa said:

Great idea, I can't wait to print them out - the figures I bought for these heroes would finally have a meaning. With current abilities no one ever wanted to pick them during our plays (just to provide some extra motivation ).

Still such a great community we have here, cheers lads!

You can print them out now, and let us know how they work for you! This is your chance to give your feedback!

By the way, most of your hero sheets have incorrect colors : each green circles should be at the color the emblem and not always green

1 hour ago, rugal said:

By the way, most of your hero sheets have incorrect colors : each green circles should be at the color the emblem and not always green

I will be happy to correct all of these once I re-create them. I am just waiting for the final version of all of them, after what ever play testing is done, and when you experts come to agreement.

Okay, I tested some of these today, me as Overlord and a couple people playing the heroes. Here are the results.

Campaign: Labyrinth of Ruin

Quest: Fortune and Glory (Interlude) Encounter 1

Power Level: Epic (Advanced)

We got through most of the 1st encounter, but we had to stop due to time. But overall, I would say we had a successful session. We're planning on finishing the quest when we have time.

Healer: Aurim, Watchman/Treasure Hunter

We didn't really get to fully see what Aurim got to do, because he only picked up one search token. We'll need to finish the quest to really make a call on this one. But as is, Aurim had quite good mobility, but didn't really help out with healing (like a Bard/Apothecary would).

No proposed fix

Warrior: Eliam, Skirmisher

Eliam was definitely broken. Eliam + Unrelenting allows for 6 attacks in a single turn, unless the Overlord goes completely out of their way to position badly, which is absolutely brutal. So this needed to be changed immediately. I got pushed back immediately from the other players with my proposed change, so we ended up settling on the 2nd attack being only using 1 blue die of whatever weapon Eliam had. I think this is still completely ridiculous.

Proposed fix to Ability : "While you have 2 Melee weapons equipped, each time you attack a figure and do not roll an X, you may choose an adjacent figure and roll 1 red power die. That figure suffers Hearts equal to the Hearts rolled."

This solves the issue of Eliam having to deal the damage to a different monster, which makes it more consistent. And it improves the damage by ~1.17. It's also more consistent with the original CK card.

Mage: Landrec, Battlemage/Beastmaster

I thought Landrec would be balanced. @rugal thought Landrec would be broken. Landrec was actually pretty bad.

We were tracking it and throughout the entire encounter, Landrec only added 1 surge to the entire party! It did help, by adding 1 damage, which was enough to kill a Raven Flock. But overall it was just not good, and it simply restricted hero movement. I'm honestly not sure what to do to make it better, but my proposed fix is below:

Proposed fix to Ability : "Each time a hero performs an attack and rolls no Surge, add 1 Surge to the results."

I'm honestly not sure this is good enough. This might be a better fix:

Proposed fix to Ability : "Each time a hero within 2 spaces performs an attack, add 1 Surge to the results."

More testing is needed, but I think it has to be between these two options.

Scout: Kirga, Bounty Hunter

I'll end this post on a positive note. Kirga was SO FUN. Amazingly fun to play positionally as the heroes, and really frustrating (in a fun way) to play around as the Overlord. Everyone also agreed that Kirga was also slightly weak, balance-wise.

Proposed fix to Feat : "Use at the start of your turn. Add a number of fatigue tokens equal to twice your Speed to your hero sheet. During any figure's activation you may discard a fatigue token on your hero sheet to gain a movement point."
Proposed fix to Stamina : 3 -> 4

I know the Feat clashes with the rules of the game (because you're supposed to track Fatigue this way). I don't track Fatigue that way, so it's fine for me. I'm not sure how to accomplish this ability any other way, but I need to think about it some more.

I have created 3 heroes, based on the information provided within this thread. They are:

Brother Glyr, Mad Carthos, and Red Scorpion

Please note that I started with @Zaltyre 's creations, and then modified them slightly based on input from @rugal and @ComtriS . In addition, I took some small liberties on minor wording changes to make things look better and flow better. If these are not acceptable, please let me know.

Finally, I did use the new image for Brother Glyr, although I agree that I like the original image better. I do feel pretty strongly, however, that we should use new/different images for ALL of the heroes we create for the missing 12 for 2 reasons:

First, it will help differentiate them. Second, it should help avoid an IP complaints. My two cents.

I am working on creating the other ones, but wanted to begin with those that there seemed to be reasonable consensus ...

Here is a link to the images:

D1e Missing Heroes

8 minutes ago, any2cards said:

I have created 3 heroes, based on the information provided within this thread. They are:

Brother Glyr, Mad Carthos, and Red Scorpion

Please note that I started with @Zaltyre 's creations, and then modified them slightly based on input from @rugal and @ComtriS . In addition, I took some small liberties on minor wording changes to make things look better and flow better. If these are not acceptable, please let me know.

Finally, I did use the new image for Brother Glyr, although I agree that I like the original image better. I do feel pretty strongly, however, that we should use new/different images for ALL of the heroes we create for the missing 12 for 2 reasons:

First, it will help differentiate them. Second, it should help avoid an IP complaints. My two cents.

I am working on creating the other ones, but wanted to begin with those that there seemed to be reasonable consensus ...

Here is a link to the images:

D1e Missing Heroes

You do not use the real official artwork ?

That's too bad, I rather prefer this one by far, so I going to keep the one I've created myself, then

I have added Laughin Buldar and Varikas the Dead

Just now, any2cards said:

I have added Laughin Buldar and Varikas the Dead

Whao, you really upgrade Laughin !

The way I read him, he can have 2 weapons with 2 hands icons, 1 on each hand ? Looks like a bit overpowered to me ... I played him many times with only 1 hand with a 2 hand icon weapon, and he is already an impressive monster

36 minutes ago, any2cards said:

I have created 3 heroes, based on the information provided within this thread. They are:

Brother Glyr, Mad Carthos, and Red Scorpion

Please note that I started with @Zaltyre 's creations, and then modified them slightly based on input from @rugal and @ComtriS . In addition, I took some small liberties on minor wording changes to make things look better and flow better. If these are not acceptable, please let me know.

Finally, I did use the new image for Brother Glyr, although I agree that I like the original image better. I do feel pretty strongly, however, that we should use new/different images for ALL of the heroes we create for the missing 12 for 2 reasons:

First, it will help differentiate them. Second, it should help avoid an IP complaints. My two cents.

I am working on creating the other ones, but wanted to begin with those that there seemed to be reasonable consensus ...

Here is a link to the images:

D1e Missing Heroes

I think these 4 from @Zaltyre are good to go, yes. However, it looks like the resolution on the images are really low. What's the reason for that? I also don't think we should use different images for the heroes, as I believe this falls under Fair Use. I'd also like to see the real image for Brother Glyr.

Also, I'd like to see the more official Descent backgrounds used in all of these. Not the bland ones.

17 minutes ago, rugal said:

Whao, you really upgrade Laughin !

The way I read him, he can have 2 weapons with 2 hands icons, 1 on each hand ? Looks like a bit overpowered to me ... I played him many times with only 1 hand with a 2 hand icon weapon, and he is already an impressive monster

It was a small change I recently made that I'd like to test out. I don't think it's ready to go to print @any2cards .

@rugal I don't think this really makes him that much stronger. It just makes him a little more flexible, that's all.

Just now, ComtriS said:

It was a small change I recently made that I'd like to test out. I don't think it's ready to go to print @any2cards

To my personnal experience, he is not a bit too strong. As a knight, already, he is a killing machine, being able to wield any kind of weapon and a shield, having the mobility of the knight and all. He may even have luck with a reach weapon, and his feat will break all !

2 minutes ago, ComtriS said:

It was a small change I recently made that I'd like to test out. I don't think it's ready to go to print @any2cards

Indeed. I am just creating them now so they exist within my inDesign. All is subject to change. I do not plan on making these generally available until we all agree.

I have added Hugo the Glorious and Aurim.

I'm not sure we were already ready on Aurim. I personnaly hate this artwork and I think his hero ability is too strong as a treasure hunter and/or Ulma around

5 minutes ago, rugal said:

I'm not sure we were already ready on Aurim . I personnaly hate this artwork and I think his hero ability is too strong as a treasure hunter and/or Ulma around

Again ... to be clear ... NONE of these are final. I am simply creating them as they exist so that I have them in inDesign. I will alter them to whatever is decided, and we won't make them official to everyone agrees.

Just now, any2cards said:

Again ... to be clear ... NONE of these are final. I am simply creating them as they exist so that I have them in inDesign. I will alter them to whatever is decided, and we won't make them official to everyone agrees.

Fine. But health, movement and stamina numbers are odd. Maybe they lack a black line ?

1 hour ago, rugal said:

I'm not sure we were already ready on Aurim. I personnaly hate this artwork and I think his hero ability is too strong as a treasure hunter and/or Ulma around

What's wrong with the artwork? It looks good to me.

4 minutes ago, ComtriS said:

What's wrong with the artwork? It looks good to me.

It doesn't look like V2, and heroes should be from feat to head on the artwork, not half ...