7 hours ago, The Jabbawookie said:

Can we count on you to be invested enough when we reach a decision to move this vote (should the situation call for it?)

Also, nobody vote the same person yet; we risk a turbo. I have more to say after dinner.

Seconded.

14 hours ago, The Jabbawookie said:

Vote history and post count (I think):

Me:

• 1st vote on Preyer D1
• 1st vote on Forty D2
• 3rd vote on Clon D2
• Post Count: 13

Mads:

• 2nd vote on Jabba D1
• 1st vote on Clon D1
• 1st vote on GNIPs D2
• 4th vote on Clon D2
• Post count: 23

Lord Preyer:

• 1st vote on Matt D1
• 1st vote on Jabba D2
• 2nd vote on Clon D2
• Post count: 18

Caldias:

• 1st vote on LTD D1
• 2nd vote on Clon D1
• Post count: 13

GNIPs:

• 3rd vote on Preyer D1
• 1st vote on Caldias D2
• 1st vote on Mads D2
• 5th vote on Clon D2 (hammer)
• 1st vote on Mads D3
• Post Count: 20

Matt : (dead)

• 1st vote on Forty D1
• Post Count: 4

LTD:

• 1st vote on Caldias D1
• 1st vote on Clon D2
• Post count: 9

Forty : (dead)

• 2nd vote on Preyer D1
• 3rd vote on Jabba D2
• Post count: 7

Clon : (dead)

• 1st vote on Jabba D1
• 4th vote on Preyer D1
• 2nd vote on Jabba D2
• Post count: 13

Firstly, thank you Jabba for compiling this! It must have taken ages and (should we survive) will only prove more useful as time goes on.

So, this helps me sort players.

TOWNISH:

Jabba: playing aggressively (in a good way) with his votes. Starting trains (Scum often dislike this) and helping ensure the Clon flop (which was needed because we had to Lynch for information given D1 failure). This plus his substantive posts (this analysis) and his turbo warning make him my top Town Read right now.

Mads: similar profile to Jabba: positive aggression, votes that move the game forward, willingness to take profile in the game (whereas I think Scum in a comparatively quiet game like this might keep quieter). He’s my other Top Town Read.

QUESTION MARK:

LTD: only two votes (!); says he dislikes the game; time zone challenge; BUT has responded to enquiries when asked. Could be disgruntled Town as easily as Scummarining Scum.

SCUMMISH:

GNIP:

• 3rd vote on Preyer D1
• 1st vote on Caldias D2
• 1st vote on Mads D2
• 5th vote on Clon D2 (hammer)
• 1st vote on Mads D3
• Post Count: 20

This is interesting! Super active player. Lots of votes, the Mads fight. Plus the 🎶 ‘you need to calm down’ 🎶 slow down on my d1 efforts. Then the step back from the Mads fight; then it’s resurrection. Again, I know I am coloured by a likely different mafia play style than GNIP but this is ringing bells for me. I also must accept that my scumhunting efforts have not borne fruit as of yet and so a refresh of my previous reads and analyses is necessary. This leads me back to GNIP.

CALDIAS: only two votes (!); but even more concerning given his love of the game and record as a superb Scum player. Contra: he (like Mads) was important to my non-Lynch on d1 and he drew attention to this fact. That was a) a Town fact (though granted only I know this for a surety) and b) a Townish move. Still CONSTANT VIGILANCE and so I have him in my suspects pool.

CONCLUSION:

##vote @GhostofNobodyInParticular (Though willing to switch to @Caldias especially if my top Town reads think so)

Ok, heading to bed.

I’m not joining any trains in case the two scum jump on and win the game.

4 hours ago, Caldias said:

I'm not saying we're 100% at a role claim yet, but it's lylo so if there was ever a time to claim, it's now. I forsee everyone having to claim today barring some major revelation.

Oh, I think we are at 100%. What on Earth is there to save it for?

@Lord Preyer no, we're at lylo.

If we don't kill scum, we're down to 3 town, 2 scum (assuming no third party.) Then someone dies at night, 4 players left, 2 vs 2, game over.

Which is one more reason we should have made a D1 lynch, as it wouldn't affect lylo.

My reads:

LTD seems remarkably sulky and quiet to be scum. Recon on Sylluria (which I modded) is the only LTD scum game I can think of off the top of my head, and he kept a very sensible, low profile. To the point where he had nothing clearing him, but everyone agreed with him so he slipped under the radar almost until the very end as the last surviving scum for most of the game. That's definitely not his MO here, with leading the lynch on Clon, not saying much at all, not making contributing points, etc. No shade, LTD.

Unfortunately, that's where my nice list ends, into the grey:

LP's defense seems to consist of being nice and constructive as always, and "rallying town." Which he did right out of the gate, but in doing so made it very difficult to kill him D1, which a truly canny scum player might try to avoid becoming a casualty of fate. As has been mentioned, this also diverts attention onto the train, which he actively did, and potentially kills those most likely to vote him later, which has also happened. Maybe he has been learning some new tricks. This is a pretty complicated and elegant theory, but any subset of those ideas could be true, with the rest a result of chance. I can also say with absolute certainty that all three of Preyer's votes (me, Clone, Matt) are town.

Mads has more posts than anyone else, and it's almost all solid content. He's definitely willing to argue with GNIPs, which scum Mads might have been willing to use as a smokescreen; however, he brought up the possibility of a crossfire instead. He put definite pressure on Clon, though, which can't be ignored. In fairness, Clon screwed up. Then there's this post:

On 9/2/2019 at 12:25 PM, Madaghmire said:

All of this is wrong.

A time when people were unlikely to be on? You mean, right at the deadline, when everyone should be on?

Also, your whole second paragraph is clearly meant to force a narrative. You list two options, neither of which are what happened but in conclusive language which is meant to exclude any other possibility. But it ignores the circumstances surrounding my vote, nor does it bother to examine the validity of it. And while it may not have been made with a ton of time on the clock, it is incumbent on the players to be available at deadline, save for LTD, cuz its like midnight for him.

Meanwhile, the vote on LP was, I believe, pretty clearly driven by scum. Attack the player vocally leading town. While I won’t discount that its possible I’m wrong, as a scum player should seek to look as town as possible, I had no issues with his position on D1 and I agree with his assessment that there is likely at least one scum on his train.

It strongly echoes LP's D2 stance for his train. The train Mads didn't finish off. On the surface it's fairly reasonable, but given how things actually shook out, it's pretty questionable. We've lost Clon and Forty, I know I'm Town. GNIPs remains a real possibility, but this is still in hindsight a leap and a good way to avert suspicion from Preyer or even just himself while cozying up.

GNIPs has a whole host of votes to his name, but only one (Clon D2) is confirmed to be town. He was on LP right away for wanting a quick lynch, which seems a little weird to me (when it comes to dialogue, D1 isn't usually going to have much by way of reasoning, or even explanations later. Obviously this is an exception.) I wouldn't consider an argument with Mads to be a smokescreen, because no scum should ever undertake that willingly, and it seems complex for a GNIPs/Mad team to control without potentially dragging other players in. That said, Mads initiated it, so no town cred or scumtell there in my book. For all his activity, I remain unsure just what to make of GNIPs. I generally see him as having a quieter playstyle.

Caldias may have been busy, but he's made some poor decisions so far. This has been brought up before, and is really the only major thing he's brought to the party:

On 9/2/2019 at 1:52 PM, Caldias said:

Thanks, clon. I appreciate you at least addressing this. Could be a misclick as you say but it looked like the best D1 suspect we had

Understandable! I'm in inlaw **** until tomorrow so haven't been able to be as present. Happy to provide my perspective.

My intent was on voting LP, but once a better lead came out I figured it was worth getting information from clon at least before sentencing LP. LP's screed did and push for a quick lynch did seem a bit iffy, but not enough to condemn as for-sure scum. Clon's mystery edit seemed more egregious to me, as it could be he edited some phrasing that tipped his hand for being scum.

I thought I had more time to wait, and couldn't be locked on the phone. I asked for how much time so I knew how long I had before I had to switch back to LP, but unfortunately it was closer than I thought. Not having a clock makes it hard to keep track of the exact deadline. By the time I could check after Bertie answered it was 3 minutes after the deadline.

I'm sorry I wasn't able to make the vote happen, that's on me. Ghost is pushing Mads hard, and Mads reads the most town as he seems to be scum hunting, but I'm not sure if Ghost reads scum or just town who wants answers. Could go either way.

LTD has a pretty good reason for not helping swing the vote, but he also just sort of drops generic shade without much substance. Not sure what I think about him yet.

We didn't get a D1 lynch because of an edit . Does anyone really think Clon would change the spirit or phrasing of his post? That's straight up illegal and bad sportsmanships, and doesn't sound like Clon at all. Did we need to interrogate him right then? Was he even present right then? If it would have led to anything, he could be grilled the next day just fine. I'm sorry, Cal, but this choice is less explicable the more I really consider it, especially since you claim you intended to vote Preyer and answered 5 minutes too late. I get that we have lives (some of us), and everyone messes up, but RL distractions lead to online Mafia consequences. And this remains shady AF. It's the only truly shady thing I see, but it's also all you've really got going on. Suggesting we look at Matt (all 4 of his posts, 1 vote on Forty) could be seen as misdirection, but leave no stone unturned I guess. And some posts about my code, which I don't consider substance.

Does it mean I think you're scum? Not necessarily, but mainly because I'm thinking about team interactions, too.

And my thoughts on possible scumteams.

Notably improbable teams:

GNIPs/Mads (argument that might not have contained itself to two players)

Preyer/GNIPs (incredibly unsafe D1 play in such a scenario)*

Middle teams:

Teams with LTD, GNIPs/Cal

Notably logical teams:

Preyer/Mads (see above reads on both)

Preyer/Cal (for the D1 save)

Mads/Cal (c'mon, meta)

*Since the rest of you can't rule me out AFAIK, Preyer/Jabba is similar.

3 hours ago, Lord Preyer said:

GNIP:

• 3rd vote on Preyer D1
• 1st vote on Caldias D2
• 1st vote on Mads D2
• 5th vote on Clon D2 (hammer)
• 1st vote on Mads D3
• Post Count: 20

This is interesting! Super active player. Lots of votes, the Mads fight. Plus the 🎶 ‘you need to calm down’ 🎶 slow down on my d1 efforts. Then the step back from the Mads fight; then it’s resurrection.

The "step back from mad" didn't happen. I hammered clon (unhappily) to avoid a no lynch scenario. At the earliest possibility I voted Mad again (your "resurrection").

3 hours ago, The Jabbawookie said:

If we don't kill scum, we're down to 3 town, 2 scum (assuming no third party.) Then someone dies at night, 4 players left, 2 vs 2, game over.

Isn't that miss lynch and lose? If we didn't vote (not that I am advocating that) it would be 3 v 2 tomorrow, with 3 needed to lynch. This is assuming, of course, that there are only 2 scum.

On 8/29/2019 at 2:15 PM, Bertie Wooster said:

Things to take note of:

If one Mafia and one Town remain at the beginning of the day phase or night phase, Mafia wins.

If two Mafia and two Town remain at the beginning of the day, the game may or may not be over, depending on which roles are left.

1 hour ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

The "step back from mad" didn't happen.

Does that mean you still want to lynch @Madaghmire then or now?

5 hours ago, The Jabbawookie said:

Notably logical teams:

Preyer/Mads (see above reads on both)

Preyer/Cal (for the D1 save)

Mads/Cal (c'mon, meta)

*Since the rest of you can't rule me out AFAIK, Preyer/Jabba is similar.

The logic of this is to lynch me as the player who appears the most in your lists. Unfortunate indeed given your own LyLo reasoning (which I note and concede accordingly) but I’m just honestly not sure how to respond to this threat!

1 hour ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

Isn't that miss lynch and lose? If we didn't vote (not that I am advocating that) it would be 3 v 2 tomorrow, with 3 needed to lynch. This is assuming, of course, that there are only 2 scum.

Whilst I may have been wrong on the LyLo risk I really don’t think I’m wrong on the scum numbers given the number of Vanilla Town we have. The game would be too unbalanced.

I do presume that we haven’t had any voluntary Power Role reveals because no one has anything of substance to report.

I’m going to go back and reread the set up (and Day1!) to see if I can actually add some value here.

34 minutes ago, Lord Preyer said:

Does that mean you still want to lynch @Madaghmire then or now?

Ever since I first voted Mad, he has been my prime suspect. I only unvoted him to hammer clon in order to forestall a no-lynch scenario. I would have preferred to keep my vote on Mad.

1 hour ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

Ever since I first voted Mad, he has been my prime suspect. I only unvoted him to hammer clon in order to forestall a no-lynch scenario. I would have preferred to keep my vote on Mad.

Its not me. Can you give us a rundown of how you see the rest of the players in this one?

I mean, besides Cal I guess, since you made your position on him clear.

Just now, Madaghmire said:

I mean, besides Cal I guess, since you made your position on him clear.

Indeed, I have already given my reads in response to LP above. The order is:

1) Mad
2) Cal
3) LTD
4) LP
5) Jabba

Maybe add some color to that commentary man.

On 8/29/2019 at 4:00 PM, Bertie Wooster said:

This is a semi-open game. Possible roles:

Welcome, [Player], you are a Mafia Goon. Your partner is [Player Name]. You or your partner may kill one player each night phase with the #kill function. You win if at least one mafia member is alive and all other players are dead (or if nothing can prevent the same).

Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Mafia X-Shot Strongman. Your partner is [Player Name]. Once per game (during the night phase), you may #obliterate another player with the #obliterate function. This kill overrides protection from doctor, babysitter, jailkeeper, etc. You or your partner may #kill one player each night phase with the #kill function. You win if at least one mafia member is alive and all other players are dead (or if nothing can prevent the same).

Welcome, [Player], you are a Mafia Roleblocker . Each night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, that player's active abilities will be blocked that night. You win if at least one mafia member is alive and all other players are dead (or if nothing can prevent the same).

Welcome, [Player], you are a Mafia Bus Driver. Each night, you may choose to switch two players each night. Any night action performed on a switched player will affect the other player targeted by the Bus Driver. You win if at least one mafia member is alive and all other players are dead (or if nothing can prevent the same).

Welcome, [Player], you are a Vanilla Town . You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Welcome, [Player], you are a Town Roleblocker . Each night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, that player's active abilities will be blocked that night. You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Welcome, [Player], you are a Town Bus Driver. Each night, you may choose to switch two players each night. Any night action performed on a switched player will affect the other player targeted by the Bus Driver. You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Welcome, [Player], you are a Town Babysitter . Each night phase, you may target one player in the game to #babysit them. They will be protected from a single kill. However, if you are killed, your target will die with you. You cannot self-protect. You cannot target the same player two nights in a row. You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Welcome, [Player], you are a Town Tracker . Each night, you may investigate one player in the game and you will discover which player they targeted (if any). You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Welcome, [Player], you are a Town Doctor . Each night phase, you may attempt to protect one player in the game from being nightkilled. You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Welcome, [Player], you are a Town Jailkeeper . Each night, you may jailkeep a player in the game by sending a PM to the mod. You will simultaneously roleblock that player, and protect that player from any number of nightkills. You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Role based scenarios:

Known: Matt, Forty and Clon were all Vanilla Town.

Known: Scum PRs are potentially Goon, X-Shot Strongman, Role Blocker, Bus Driver

Known: Town PRs are potentially Bus Driver, Baby Sitter, Doctor, Tracker, Jailkeeper.

Known: no PR claims to date; no reported attempted kills successfully defended

Probable: no successful matching of Town protective roles to targets as yet; no result on all Tracker attempts so far? ( @Bertie Wooster - would you report that a player had been blocked if the were Tracker and Role Blocked or would you just give a ‘no result’ as if they hadn’t moved at Night? Thanks)

Possible: no Town protective roles? Bus driver-switched Night Kills? All Vanilla game?

—

Hmmmn. Not sure this really helps us move forward that much but perhaps other players can see something here I’m missing and/or add to the analysis?

12 minutes ago, Madaghmire said:

Maybe add some color to that commentary man.

I had, earlier. That was merely a recapitulation. However, if you insist:

1) Mad - I suspect you most of all, because of what were, in my mind, poor and unsatisfying answers to my questions, which raised more suspicions than they squelched. Additionally, you have been pushing most for those I suspected least, and have consistently been shown to be mistaken. Furthermore, your methods leave something to be desired. You bring attention to lynch victims, insinuating suspicions of them, but await others to make the first move in most cases, and then claim to be clear of blame in their deaths, whereas it was based on your arguments that they were lynched. Finally you, like Cal below, voted Clon ostensibly as a result of an edit. I am staggered that that would be considered worth voting. It seems more likely that you both were attempting to vote for the one who needed one less vote to lynch.*

2) @Caldias - I suspect him due to the no-lynch result of D1, which was down to his actions (or lack thereof). I do know whether he was trying to save Preyer or not, but either way his actions have caused me to have doubts regarding his allegiance.

3) @LTD - I suspect him because of his lack of content, helpful or otherwise, and the habit of merely stating what is obvious when he does post (such as his 'It appears a train is forming on clon' post). Additionally, it seems likely that the scum may try to pursue a policy whereby one of their members is active, and the other not, so as to keep one or the other under the radar and out of general attention. LTD could easily fit the description of a 'silent partner'.

3) @Lord Preyer - I suspect him due to his D1 behavior, though I am willing to let that slide, as well as his possible connection to other potential scum, such as Caldias above (if Cal tried to save him, could it be as a scum buddy?).

4) @The Jabbawookie - I can't say that I really suspect him too much, though his attempt at fishing has me partially concerned. Also, like LP, process of elimination implies that, if Mad and Cal are not both scum, he may be the second partner.

*Why did you desire to redirect pressure from LP so late in the day, after having not really bothered about his defense? To me, it seems that either one or the other of you was town, unknowingly colluding with scum, or there are indeed 3 scum present and LP is the third. Both of these seem weak to me, but as I can't take the edit as a serious reason to vote somebody, I am struggling to find an answer. If, however, one of you was indeed town, then I am willing to concede that it was probably you, as Cal was the one whose vote was needed to finish off LP.

6 minutes ago, Lord Preyer said:

Probable: no successful matching of Town protective roles to targets as yet; no result on all Tracker attempts so far? ( @Bertie Wooster - would you report that a player had been blocked if the were Tracker and Role Blocked or would you just give a ‘no result’ as if they hadn’t moved at Night? Thanks)

If the Tracker's target didn't go anywhere at night, and the tracker wasn't affected by Bus Driver/Roleblocker, I would inform the Tracker that their target didn't go anywhere at night.

If the Tracker was roleblocked, they would receive "no result."

11 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

I had, earlier. That was merely a recapitulation. However, if you insist:

1) Mad - I suspect you most of all, because of what were, in my mind, poor and unsatisfying answers to my questions, which raised more suspicions than they squelched. Additionally, you have been pushing most for those I suspected least, and have consistently been shown to be mistaken. Furthermore, your methods leave something to be desired. You bring attention to lynch victims, insinuating suspicions of them, but await others to make the first move in most cases, and then claim to be clear of blame in their deaths, whereas it was based on your arguments that they were lynched. Finally you, like Cal below, voted Clon ostensibly as a result of an edit. I am staggered that that would be considered worth voting. It seems more likely that you both were attempting to vote for the one who needed one less vote to lynch.*

2) @Caldias - I suspect him due to the no-lynch result of D1, which was down to his actions (or lack thereof). I do know whether he was trying to save Preyer or not, but either way his actions have caused me to have doubts regarding his allegiance.

3) @LTD - I suspect him because of his lack of content, helpful or otherwise, and the habit of merely stating what is obvious when he does post (such as his 'It appears a train is forming on clon' post). Additionally, it seems likely that the scum may try to pursue a policy whereby one of their members is active, and the other not, so as to keep one or the other under the radar and out of general attention. LTD could easily fit the description of a 'silent partner'.

3) @Lord Preyer - I suspect him due to his D1 behavior, though I am willing to let that slide, as well as his possible connection to other potential scum, such as Caldias above (if Cal tried to save him, could it be as a scum buddy?).

4) @The Jabbawookie - I can't say that I really suspect him too much, though his attempt at fishing has me partially concerned. Also, like LP, process of elimination implies that, if Mad and Cal are not both scum, he may be the second partner.

*Why did you desire to redirect pressure from LP so late in the day, after having not really bothered about his defense? To me, it seems that either one or the other of you was town, unknowingly colluding with scum, or there are indeed 3 scum present and LP is the third. Both of these seem weak to me, but as I can't take the edit as a serious reason to vote somebody, I am struggling to find an answer. If, however, one of you was indeed town, then I am willing to concede that it was probably you, as Cal was the one whose vote was needed to finish off LP.

I don’t defend other people on D1. I just won’t vote for them if I don’t like the train. And I did say I liked the position LP was getting voted on when I voted Jabbawookie. That’s about as much as I think is reasonable to expect someone to do when they don’t actually know anyone else’s affiliation.

I also wrote why I voted for Clon. Edits a rule break, which is good enough for me on D1, and he literally said he thought LP was town and voted for him. To expound; I believe in the D1 lynch, because of the information you get AND because you have a shot at nailing scum. You don’t vote for someone if you don’t think you are getting a shot at scum. I’m not overly concerned with being wrong about an underdeveloped D1 read and hitting a fellow townie, but I have to believe I have a chance at being right, and LP read extremely town to me on D1. He still does, although we’re at the point in the game is when I start looking hard at my town reads under the lens that I’m missing something.

1 minute ago, Madaghmire said:

I don’t defend other people on D1. I just won’t vote for them if I don’t like the train. And I did say I liked the position LP was getting voted on when I voted Jabbawookie. That’s about as much as I think is reasonable to expect someone to do when they don’t actually know anyone else’s affiliation.

Except that you told me D2 that the LP push was 'obviously' scum engineered. Was that only obvious after nightfall? You made it seem that it was obvious at the time, which was partly why you didn't vote him. And yet, did you say so? No. I would have expected you to at least state that the case against him was weak and being pushed by scum, and then go after those voting him with rather a lot more pressure than you seemed to have done.

Essentially, you didn't have to defend him as a player (how could you, without having any past actions to go by?), but you could easily have defended him as a target of an 'obviously' scum train.

3 hours ago, Lord Preyer said:

The logic of this is to lynch me as the player who appears the most in your lists. Unfortunate indeed given your own LyLo reasoning (which I note and concede accordingly) but I’m just honestly not sure how to respond to this threat!

You, Mads and Cal all appear two times in my highest likelihoods. So I’m actually in favor of lynching one of you.

38 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

Except that you told me D2 that the LP push was 'obviously' scum engineered. Was that only obvious after nightfall? You made it seem that it was obvious at the time, which was partly why you didn't vote him. And yet, did you say so? No. I would have expected you to at least state that the case against him was weak and being pushed by scum, and then go after those voting him with rather a lot more pressure than you seemed to have done.

Essentially, you didn't have to defend him as a player (how could you, without having any past actions to go by?), but you could easily have defended him as a target of an 'obviously' scum train.

Well, I’ve been wrong before. I thought for sure that was a scum rocket.

But if I was scum, I’d have have dropped the hammer, and hidden behind “we just had to get that lynch guise”

49 minutes ago, The Jabbawookie said:

You, Mads and Cal all appear two times in my highest likelihoods. So I’m actually in favor of lynching one of you.

My error. Thanks for clarifying.

9 minutes ago, Madaghmire said:

Well, I’ve been wrong before. I thought for sure that was a scum rocket.

But if I was scum, I’d have have dropped the hammer, and hidden behind “we just had to get that lynch guise”

I still think it may very well have been! Hence my analyses and votes in each subsequent day!

But I am trying very hard to refresh my Reads and come at the whole game anew looking at each player again. And yes - that does include you @GhostofNobodyInParticular I will try to look at your game with unbiased eyes once more!

Guys - warning about tomorrow’s deadline which I think is 10pm in London. I’ll be offline as with family tomorrow night and my wife would have justifiable grounds to execute a real life lynch if after a week of late nights in the office I was playing Mafia on my phone instead of being with her and loved ones!

I can probably be online until about 8pm. Hope you understand. Thanks.