6 minutes ago, Bellona said:

@EliasWindrider

Just to check - if I use Ebb (the version which causes Strain damage) against the Droids, will that then convert to Wounds for them because they're minions?

Droids are immune to most force powers, I'm ruling ebb doesn't work on droids

But you have 2 threat which can strain to wounds to spend

4 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

Droids are immune to most force powers , I'm ruling ebb doesn't work on droids

Where does it say that?

The power does not specify that the targets must be living (unlike Heal, for example).

Just now, Bellona said:

Where does it say that?

The power does not specify that the targets must be living (unlike Heal, for example).

It specifies under the description for droids. They are immune to the force.

"The target must be living" excludes some targets that are not immune to the force. It is presumed (and often stated) in many powers that it works "as long as the target is not immune to the force." This description is also echoed in many force talents.

1 minute ago, Bellona said:

Where does it say that?

The power does not specify that the targets must be living (unlike Heal, for example).

Droid quality immune to most force powers. And it doesn't make sense that you could suck life force out of a droid

3 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

Droid quality immune to most force powers. And it doesn't make sense that you could suck life force out of a droid

It's not life force - that would be Harm.

And the Force is more than just the Living Force. It's also the Unified/Cosmic Force.

1 minute ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

It specifies under the description for droids. They are immune to the force.

"The target must be living" excludes some targets that are not immune to the force. It is presumed (and often stated) in many powers that it works "as long as the target is not immune to the force." This description is also echoed in many force talents.

I cannot find information about this in the FaD core rulebook, which is why I'm asking. Considering that there are droid enemies listed in the FaD core rulebook, that doesn't make sense.

Just now, Bellona said:

I cannot find information about this in the FaD core rulebook, which is why I'm asking. Considering that there are droid enemies listed in the FaD core rulebook, that doesn't make sense.

Read under the description for the droid species (which probably isn't in FaD).

I'll type it up for you in a minute.

Found it:

"Droids cannot become Force sensitive, nor aquire a Force Rating by any means. Droids cannot use Force powers, and also cannot be affected by mind-affecting Force powers." (EotE p. 47)

Ebb is not mind-affecting, unlike Influence, possibly Misdirection and some other Force powers.

That was before FaD came out, so the only force power not applicable to droids was Influence. I imagine that Heal/Harm, Ebb/Flow, Imbue, Battle Meditation, and Misdirect would all be added to the list of "doesn't affect droids."

GM has already ruled out Misdirect.

Think about Ebb/Flow from the perspective of the force and what strain is. Strain when the force is involved is generally stressing the mind. Droids, inherently disconnected from the force, don't have a mind you can stress in that way. How would you explain Ebb/Flow's applicability in the case of droids?

Side note, while browsing the FFG Dev Answered Questions thread to see if we had an official ruling on the topic, I came across an answer regarding Misdirect. According to the dev, the illusory part of the Misdirect power can work on droids, but it doesn't specifically address the "unable to perceive" part. The dev does state that it is reasonable for a GM to houserule that the illusions don't fool droids.

Didn't find anything on Ebb/Flow.

Unless Misdirect is used to disrupt a droids photoreceptors? 😄

perhaps if you could alter the flow of electrical power in a droids brain, that could affect the ST?

That would be closer to Manipulate. Perhaps, oh illustrious GM, purchasing Manipulate would allow the effects of Ebb/Flow to apply to droids?

2 hours ago, Bellona said:

@EliasWindrider

We have some issues with timing, etc. ...

After healing Jorin (#2 of 4 PC slots in round 6), Mireska left his side to take on the other droid group (#2 of 4 PC slots in round 7), otherwise Mireska would not have spent +1 Strain on Force Leaping to that group. In other words, she's Engaged with the 6-member group.

Technically this latest droid attack (round 7) came after Mireska's attack on the 6-member B1 group. Her attack is above in the OOC, but not yet posted in the IC because I was waiting on @RuusMarev /Jorin's IC posts for rounds 6 + 7, and @jhh3 /Ethan's IC post for rounds 6.

The 6-member B1 group should have had +1 Setback (Mireska's 2 Advantage expenditure on her own turn) which stacks with the 4 Setbacks from her Defence 4. (The +1 Setback is a generic one, not a Defence +1.)

(By the way, are you sure about the number of Y/G dice in those pools? A single B1 starts with GG.)

I made my IC post after Elias had the droids firing at Mireska again... unless I did it wrong?

47 minutes ago, RuusMarev said:

I made my IC post after Elias had the droids firing at Mireska again... unless I did it wrong?

That would be your round 6 and 7 turn.

@Bellona and @RuusMarev can take their round 8 turns now

@jhh3 can take his round 7 turn now (which is either jumping or trying to move another sniper rifle to you)

1 hour ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

That was before FaD came out, so the only force power not applicable to droids was Influence. I imagine that Heal/Harm, Ebb/Flow, Imbue, Battle Meditation, and Misdirect would all be added to the list of "doesn't affect droids."

GM has already ruled out Misdirect.

Think about Ebb/Flow from the perspective of the force and what strain is. Strain when the force is involved is generally stressing the mind. Droids, inherently disconnected from the force, don't have a mind you can stress in that way. How would you explain Ebb/Flow's applicability in the case of droids?

I'm going with this interpretation

44 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

That would be closer to Manipulate. Perhaps, oh illustrious GM, purchasing Manipulate would allow the effects of Ebb/Flow to apply to droids?

This and an extra force pip seems fair.

54 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Side note, while browsing the FFG Dev Answered Questions thread to see if we had an official ruling on the topic, I came across an answer regarding Misdirect. According to the dev, the illusory part of the Misdirect power can work on droids, but it doesn't specifically address the "unable to perceive" part. The dev does state that it is reasonable for a GM to houserule that the illusions don't fool droids.

Didn't find anything on Ebb/Flow.

I'm going with this house rule.

@EliasWindrider I think jumping to @Bellona is a better idea.

59 minutes ago, jhh3 said:

@EliasWindrider I think jumping to @Bellona is a better idea.

Ok, then uncommit your force dice and and maybe 3 5eF rolls. Btw until you recover some strain you won't be able to spend strain to take a second maneuver or use reflect.

Once you're across the river I'd recommend a move power check

3eP+3eA+1eD+5eF with 3 white pips you'll be able to throw 1 minion group into another destroying one and doing 20 damage minus 4 soak = 16 damage=3 dead droids in the second group.

Actually if you slammed both groups into the ceiling for 20 points you could get another 10 points of falling damage for free soak of 4 applied twice so 22 points received so 4 dead droids in the larger group.

With respect to the round 7 double attack on Mireska ...

Group 1's Threat looks like it will have to be +1 Strain (which converts to +1 Wound) since there's no other valid option on the table as far as I can tell. (Unless that group was the one which got an extra Threat added by that missing Setback; in that case I might choose another option.)

Reflect vs. group 1's attack: 12 - 4 Reflect = 8 damage - 4 soak = +4 Wounds, +3 Strain

Reflect vs. group 2's attack: 10 - 4 Reflect = 6 damage - 4 soak = +2 Wounds, +3 Strain

That leaves Mireska at 6/17 Wounds taken and 11/17 Strain suffered.

2 minutes ago, Bellona said:

With respect to the round 7 double attack on Mireska ...

Group 1's Threat looks like it will have to be +1 Strain (which converts to +1 Wound) since there's no other valid option on the table as far as I can tell. (Unless that group was the one which got an extra Threat added by that missing Setback ; in that case I might choose another option.)

Reflect vs. group 1's attack: 12 - 4 Reflect = 8 damage - 4 soak = +4 Wounds, +3 Strain

Reflect vs. group 2's attack: 10 - 4 Reflect = 6 damage - 4 soak = +2 Wounds, +3 Strain

That leaves Mireska at 6/17 Wounds taken and 11/17 Strain suffered.

Bolded is correct

3 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

Bolded is correct

Then I'll take it as a +1 Boost on Mireska's next check instead. (Force knows she needs all the help that she can get.)

1 minute ago, Bellona said:

Then I'll take it as a +1 Boost on Mireska's next check instead. (Force knows she needs all the help that she can get.)

Ok.

Round 8/Mireska:

She is still Engaged with the 6-member B1 minion group (remember, she used a Force Leap to reach them in round 7).

Action: Lightsabre attack on 6-member B1 minion group while using Flow power on herself ...

LSa attack on 6-member B1 group plus Flow power : 1eP+1eA+1eB+2eD+4eF 3 successes, 2 threat, 2 Light Side, 3 Dark Side

Actual result (+1 Success b/c Personalised Design, +1 Advantage b/c Fine-Tuned Emitter) : 4 Successes, 1 Threat, 2 LS pips.

Damage = 6 +4 Successes = 10 damage -4 Soak = 6 Wounds.

That reduces the 6-member group to 5, with 1 Wound rolling over to the next droid?

I'll take that Threat as +1 Strain, but the Flow power gives +2 Strain back for a total -1 Strain to Mireska.

Mireska at end of her turn: 6/17 Wounds taken, 10/17 Strain suffered.

Wouldn't Breach bypass their Soak? Thus it would be 10 wounds?

18 minutes ago, Bellona said:

Round 8/Mireska:

She is still Engaged with the 6-member B1 minion group (remember, she used a Force Leap to reach them in round 7).

Action: Lightsabre attack on 6-member B1 minion group while using Flow power on herself ...

LSa attack on 6-member B1 group plus Flow power : 1eP+1eA+1eB+2eD+4eF 3 successes, 2 threat, 2 Light Side, 3 Dark Side

Actual result (+1 Success b/c Personalised Design, +1 Advantage b/c Fine-Tuned Emitter) : 4 Successes, 1 Threat, 2 LS pips.

Damage = 6 +4 Successes = 10 damage -4 Soak = 6 Wounds.

That reduces the 6-member group to 5, with 1 Wound rolling over to the next droid?

I'll take that Threat as +1 Strain, but the Flow power gives +2 Strain back for a total -1 Strain to Mireska.

Mireska at end of her turn: 6/17 Wounds taken, 10/17 Strain suffered.

6 member group is up the stairs behind the 3 member group, so currently out of reach. But this attack (breach ignores soak) can reduce 3 member group to 1 member.