3 hours ago, Bellona said:

@EliasWindrider

I just want to make sure that I haven't misunderstood anything about the Draw Closer talent from the Niman tree.

"... The character may spend [Force pip symbol] before resolving the success or failure of the check to move the target one range band closer to the character (including from short to engaged). ... If the character cannot move the target to engage him, the combat check automatically misses." (FaD p. 142)

Am I correct in thinking that the talent/action requires the user to spend 1 Force pip to move the target? As in: one Force pip must be set aside for moving the target?

Am I correct in thinking that the talent/action allows only 1 Force pip to be spent on moving the target, or can the user spend 2 Force pips (moving the target from Medium to Short, then again from Short to Engaged)?

What happens if the target is already in Engaged range? Can the user use Draw Closer in that case?

Once I get the answers, then I can interpret the results of Mireska's Draw Closer attack vs. Ventress.

If the target is already engaged you don't need to spend a DP to bring them into engaged.

4 hours ago, SuperWookie said:

Not my place to make a ruling, but I am thinking that wording at the end assumes the character also gets their maneuver to use and might have also moved a range band too. So move a range band, then take the action to draw them closer?

I'm planning on something like that, but I need the clarifications both to cover this situation and any future possibilities.

Among other things, any pip(s) which must be assigned to the actual movement obviously reduce the number available to be added to the combat check as Successes.

4 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

If the target is already engaged you don't need to spend a DP to bring them into engaged.

I'll assume that you meant Force pip, not a DP.

But can one still use the Draw Closer action when attacking a target with whom one is already Engaged?

(Draw Closer not only brings a target closer for combat, but it also adds Successes to the combat check, so I want to know if it's still usable when one is already Engaged with the target.)

Okay, since there's been no better suggestion, I guess that it's time for Mireska to throw herself into the meatgrinder in order to keep scary bald Sith woman (Ventress) distracted from Jorin ...

Incidental: activate Supreme Centre of Being 3 (all attacks against Mireska have their critical rating increased by 3), at the cost of 1 Strain.

Manoeuvre: move from Medium to Short range of Ventress.

Action: Draw Closer talent vs. Ventress

Draw Closer vs. Ventress : 2eP+2eA+4eF+2eC+1eD+4eS 1 failure, 1 advantage, 3 Light Side, 2 Dark Side

Final Results (1 LS pip to bring Ventress from Short to Engaged, 2 LS pips for +2 Successes; +1 Success from Personalised Design; +1 Advantage from Fine-Tuned Emitter) : 2 Successes, 2 Advantages.

*jaw drops - "I hit her!"* ... Well, not really ...

Damage 9 (7 base + 2 Successes) - 17 (Parry 10+2 + Peerless Interception with FR 5) = less than 1 damage.

2 Advantages spent to inflict +1 Setback on Ventress' next check.

Assuming that Ventress uses PI's Effortless Counter upgrade (1/round only) to use Improved Parry vs. Mireska without needing enough Threats or a Despair, then Mireska takes 9 Wounds (Breach 1 obviously ignores Soak 4) from one of Ventress' lightsabres.

@EliasWindrider : Ventress will presumably use the PI's Activate Quality upgrade against Mireska for some truly nasty result. That includes activating the 1+3 or 3+3 Advantage criticals (which feels "broken"; that PI upgrade completely bypasses all the Centre of Being talents every single time ... unless the "minimum" proves to be only 1 or 3 Threats, which is not enough to bypass Centre of Being?). D'oh! I just realised that weapon critical ratings do not count as "weapon qualities" (huge sigh of relief!).

Ventress is now at 6/21 ST, and will have +1 Setback on her next check. She is also at Short range to the door, and is Engaged with Mireska until one of them moves.

Mireska is now at 9/17 WT, 4/17 ST, plus whatever nastiness Ventress inflicted with PI's Activate Quality upgrade Disoriented 3 (+1 Setback for 3 rounds). If Mireska survives the Activate Quality/riposte, then the next two attacks against her both have their difficulty upgraded twice (Sense power and its defensive upgrades), plus Supreme Centre of Being 3.

I'll make an IC post, but leave the end "open" for whatever result comes from Ventress' Activate Quality upgrade.

On 1/3/2021 at 7:08 AM, SuperWookie said:

With her dice fully committed, not sure if Chee'Okee could do anything except drop commitment at the end of her turn.

Chee'Okee has one Force die committed to Jorin's Cunning increase (Imbue power and upgrades), and presumably one Force die committed to the Sense power's defensive upgrade. Has the last one been committed to an Agility increase via the Enhance power's upgrade?

Anyway, if Ventress hangs around after cutting Mireska down, then she'll still be in Short range for Chee'Okee to engage and attack.

@EliasWindrider

Ventress is up, both for her choice for Activate Quality vs. Mireska and for her own turn.

So activating a critical happens after Reflect/Parry?

Also, I committed the 2 dice to buff Jorin before buying the upgrade to need one 1 die to commit. Not sure if I am allowed to get the discount while it is still activated.

Before spending that XP it was as follows:

Chee'Okee Force Rating - 3
Imbue Jorin (Cunning) - 2 dice
Sense Chee'Okee - 1 die

Lightsaber (Willpower) vs Ventress : 3eP+1eA+2eC+1eD+2eS 1 failure, 1 Despair

Used Sense Danger to remove two of the setback dice to attack. Also I have a free advantage that wasn't cancelled out, so the net result is 1 advantage, 1 failure, and 1 Despair.

I will spend the advantage to allow the next person to attack Ventress to get a Boost die.

EDIT: Difficulty to attack me should be upgraded due to Sense, so 1 challenge, 1 difficulty, and 3 setback dice.

41 minutes ago, SuperWookie said:

So activating a critical happens after Reflect/Parry?

Also, I committed the 2 dice to buff Jorin before buying the upgrade to need one 1 die to commit. Not sure if I am allowed to get the discount while it is still activated.

Before spending that XP it was as follows:

Chee'Okee Force Rating - 3
Imbue Jorin (Cunning) - 2 dice
Sense Chee'Okee - 1 die

IIRC, if the XP is spent immediately as soon as it's received (i.e., the same day), then the XP purchase goes "active" immediately.

As for the critical activation after Reflect/Parry, that's based on the Peerless Interception signature ability. What nearly dropped Ker'see was the Critical Counter upgrade. What's about to threaten Mireska is the Activate Quality upgrade ... which I've just realised will not include a critical as the critical rating of a weapon is not a "weapon quality" (huge sigh of relief on my part) ... although both of Ventress' weapons have some unpleasant weapon qualities, so some nastiness is coming Mireska's way.

51 minutes ago, SuperWookie said:

Lightsaber (Willpower) vs Ventress : 3eP+1eA+2eC+1eD+2eS 1 failure, 1 Despair

Used Sense Danger to remove two of the setback dice to attack. Also I have a free advantage that wasn't cancelled out, so the net result is 1 advantage, 1 failure, and 1 Despair.

I will spend the advantage to allow the next person to attack Ventress to get a Boost die.

EDIT: Difficulty to attack me should be upgraded due to Sense, so 1 challenge, 1 difficulty, and 3 setback dice.

We're waiting first on @EliasWindrider 's decision re Ventress' Peerless Interception's Activated Quality decision, then for Ventress to take her own turn before the rest of us (including Chee'Okee) can do anything.

This combat's Initiative list can be found a bit over halfway down on OOC p. 149. There are 3 PC slots at the top, then Ventress, then the 5 remaining PC slots, then 4 more NPC slots (ending with the B1 droid pilot prepping the starfighter).

The top 3 PC slots have already been used: Jorin, Ker'see, and Mireska, which is why we're waiting on Ventress now.

20 hours ago, Bellona said:

I'll assume that you meant Force pip, not a DP.

But can one still use the Draw Closer action when attacking a target with whom one is already Engaged?

(Draw Closer not only brings a target closer for combat, but it also adds Successes to the combat check, so I want to know if it's still usable when one is already Engaged with the target.)

Correct... yes... just like you can use Hawkbat swoop against targets that you're already engaged with.

20 hours ago, Bellona said:

Okay, since there's been no better suggestion, I guess that it's time for Mireska to throw herself into the meatgrinder in order to keep scary bald Sith woman (Ventress) distracted from Jorin ...

Incidental: activate Supreme Centre of Being 3 (all attacks against Mireska have their critical rating increased by 3), at the cost of 1 Strain.

Manoeuvre: move from Medium to Short range of Ventress.

Action: Draw Closer talent vs. Ventress

Draw Closer vs. Ventress : 2eP+2eA+4eF+2eC+1eD+4eS 1 failure, 1 advantage, 3 Light Side, 2 Dark Side

Final Results (1 LS pip to bring Ventress from Short to Engaged, 2 LS pips for +2 Successes; +1 Success from Personalised Design; +1 Advantage from Fine-Tuned Emitter) : 2 Successes, 2 Advantages.

*jaw drops - "I hit her!"* ... Well, not really ...

Damage 9 (7 base + 2 Successes) - 17 (Parry 10+2 + Peerless Interception with FR 5) = less than 1 damage.

2 Advantages spent to inflict +1 Setback on Ventress' next check.

Assuming that Ventress uses PI's Effortless Counter upgrade (1/round only) to use Improved Parry vs. Mireska without needing enough Threats or a Despair, then Mireska takes 9 Wounds (Breach 1 obviously ignores Soak 4) from one of Ventress' lightsabres.

@EliasWindrider : Ventress will presumably use the PI's Activate Quality upgrade against Mireska for some truly nasty result. That includes activating the 1+3 or 3+3 Advantage criticals (which feels "broken"; that PI upgrade completely bypasses all the Centre of Being talents every single time ... unless the "minimum" proves to be only 1 or 3 Threats, which is not enough to bypass Centre of Being?). D'oh! I just realised that weapon critical ratings do not count as "weapon qualities" (huge sigh of relief!).

Ventress is now at 6/21 ST, and will have +1 Setback on her next check. She is also at Short range to the door, and is Engaged with Mireska until one of them moves.

Mireska is now at 9/17 WT, 4/17 ST, plus whatever nastiness Ventress inflicted with PI's Activate Quality upgrade. If Mireska survives the Activate Quality/riposte, then the next two attacks against her both have their difficulty upgraded twice (Sense power and its defensive upgrades), plus Supreme Centre of Being 3.

I'll make an IC post, but leave the end "open" for whatever result comes from Ventress' Activate Quality upgrade.

Take your pick of disorient 3 (setback for 3 rounds) vs. Concussive 2 (no actions for 2 rounds, still get maneuvers)

2 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

Take your pick of disorient 3 (setback for 3 rounds) vs. Concussive 2 (no actions for 2 rounds, still get maneuvers)

"I'll take Disorient 3 (+1 Setback for 3 rounds), Vanna!"

13 hours ago, Bellona said:

We're waiting first on @EliasWindrider 's decision re Ventress' Peerless Interception's Activated Quality decision, then for Ventress to take her own turn before the rest of us (including Chee'Okee) can do anything.

This combat's Initiative list can be found a bit over halfway down on OOC p. 149. There are 3 PC slots at the top, then Ventress, then the 5 remaining PC slots, then 4 more NPC slots (ending with the B1 droid pilot prepping the starfighter).

The top 3 PC slots have already been used: Jorin, Ker'see, and Mireska, which is why we're waiting on Ventress now.

Ventress is going to use the bind power which requires an opposed discipline check... I'll roll ventress's dice as negative, PCs will roll the positive dice for their side of the check with an upgrade as the negative of the crit on ventress.

BIND: Half of opposed discipline check : 5eC+5eF 4 failures, 3 threat, 1 Despair, 5 Light Side, 2 Dark Side

She gets a free black pip from the corrupted crystal

Because Bellona used draw closer ventress is in short range of the PCs so she gets the base power and one activation of her magnitude upgrades, that's 4 PCs all but Jorin, if you fail you take 3 wounds ignoring soak, and are imobililized (no maneuvers, yes actions).

Resistance : 1eP+2eA 0 successes, 1 advantage

Oh gee, that's helpful. 🙄

11 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

Ventress is going to use the bind power which requires an opposed discipline check... I'll roll ventress's dice as negative, PCs will roll the positive dice for their side of the check with an upgrade as the negative of the crit on ventress.

BIND: Half of opposed discipline check : 5eC+5eF 4 failures, 3 threat, 1 Despair, 5 Light Side, 2 Dark Side

She gets a free black pip from the corrupted crystal

Because Bellona used draw closer ventress is in short range of the PCs so she gets the base power and one activation of her magnitude upgrades, that's 4 PCs all but Jorin, if you fail you take 3 wounds ignoring soak, and are imobililized (no maneuvers, yes actions).

Mireska's "active" part of the opposed Discipline check ...

"Active" part of opposed Discipline check vs. Ventress, w. upgrade : 4eP 3 successes, 1 advantage

Final Result of Ventress vs. Mireska (flipped back to be read from V's PoV): 1 Success, 2 Advantages. 1 Triumph.

It looks like Mireska is Immobilised (no Manoeuvres) until the end of Ventress' next turn (basic Bind), and suffers 3 Wounds (no Soak) plus a +30 Critical Injury (Bind Mastery upgrade).

Mireska is now at 12/17 WT and 4/17 ST, cannot use Manoeuvres (Bind), is Disoriented (+1 Setback) for 3 rounds, and has an unknown CI.

ETA:

As per the posts below on this page, the PCs dice pool should not have been upgraded, but instead had +1eA (+1 green die) added. Mireska should also have had +1 Setback in this pool (from being Disoriented). (I have since been informed that Setbacks don't affect this kind of check when one is the "passive" party.) Theoretically, there should also be either +1 Boost, or V should roll +1 Setback and then flip the results (from Mireska's spending of 2 Advantages) ... I'll add the +1 Boost now, although the results of that can be removed later if our GM wishes to go with the V option instead.

Removed from dice pool above: 1eP (the last one).

Added to dice pool: +2eA+1eB+1eS.

Correction to previous dice pool : 2eA+1eB+1eS 1 success, 2 advantage

Final Result of Ventress vs. Mireska (flipped back to be read from V's PoV): 0 Success, 1 Triumph.

So Mireska successfully resists Ventress' Bind power, thereby suffering neither extra Wounds nor a Critical Injury.

Mireska is currently at 9/17 WT and 4/17 ST, is Disoriented (+1 Setback) for 3 rounds.

1 hour ago, Bellona said:

Mireska's "active" part of the opposed Discipline check ...

"Active" part of opposed Discipline check vs. Ventress, w. upgrade : 4eP 3 successes, 1 advantage

Final Result of Ventress vs. Mireska (flipped back to be read from V's PoV): 1 Success, 2 Advantages. 1 Triumph.

It looks like Mireska is Immobilised (no Manoeuvres) until the end of Ventress' next turn (basic Bind), and suffers 3 Wounds (no Soak) plus a +30 Critical Injury (Bind Mastery upgrade).

Mireska is now at 12/17 WT and 4/17 ST, cannot use Manoeuvres (Bind), is Disoriented (+1 Setback) for 3 rounds, and has an unknown CI.

Bind Mastery Crit on Mireska : 1d100+30 75

Hamstrung loose *free* maneuver until.end of the encounter, can still take up to 2 maneuvers by spending strain.

Discipline check : 2eA 1 success, 1 advantage

3 minutes ago, MrTInce said:

Discipline check : 2eA 1 success, 1 advantage

It's upgraded once, so you get YG instead of GG.

2 hours ago, Bellona said:

It's upgraded once, so you get YG instead of GG.

I'm not upset by it but why is it upgraded?

6 hours ago, MrTInce said:

I'm not upset by it but why is it upgraded?

Our GM's post about it ...

11 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

Ventress is going to use the bind power which requires an opposed discipline check... I'll roll ventress's dice as negative, PCs will roll the positive dice for their side of the check with an upgrade as the negative of the crit on ventress .

...

... Although, looking back at the Compromised CI in question (from Ker'see, OOC p. 150), it just adds +1 Difficulty (which in the reversed situation here would add +1 Ability) instead of upgrading our part of the dice pool. @EliasWindrider Should Mireska roll +2eA instead of that last, upgraded +1eP? It might make a difference ...

And I've just realised that Ventress should have had +1 Setback on her part of the opposed Discipline check (from the +2 Advantages spent by Mireska during her attack on V, this page), while Mireska should have had +1 Setback too (from her Disoriented status, also this page) . @EliasWindrider Should V and Mireska both roll +1 Setback die each? Should everyone roll +1 Boost* (V's flipped +1 Setback) and Mireska roll +1 Setback (Disoriented) ? Again, it might make a difference ...

* It's either that, or V rolls +1 Setback and then flips the result for all the PCs to use.

14 minutes ago, Bellona said:

Our GM's post about it ...

... Although, looking back at the Compromised CI in question (from Ker'see), it just adds +1 Difficulty (which in the reversed situation here would add +1 Ability) instead of upgrading our part of the dice pool. @EliasWindrider Should Mireska roll +2eA instead of that last, upgraded +1eP? It might make a difference ...

And I've just realised that Ventress should have had +1 Setback on her part of the opposed Discipline check (from the +2 Advantages spent by Mireska during her attack on V), while Mireska should have had +1 Setback too (from her Disoriented status). @EliasWindrider Should V and Mireska both roll +1 Setback die each? Should everyone roll +1 Boost* (V's flipped +1 Setback) and Mireska roll +1 Setback (Disoriented)? Again, it might make a difference ...

* It's either that, or V rolls +1 Setback and then flips the result for all the PCs to use.

If it's plus one purple die then I'll roll an extra green die.

Extra die : 1eA 0 successes, 1 advantage

Discipline vs Ventress (Bind) : 2eP+2eA 5 successes, 1 advantage

At least Bird Lady can do something right!

5 hours ago, Bellona said:

Mireska roll +1 Setback (Disoriented)? Again, it might make a difference ...

Mireska wouldn't roll a Setback since she isn't taking an Action. You don't account for the disoriented condition when opposing a check.

1 minute ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Mireska wouldn't roll a Setback since she isn't taking an Action. You don't account for the disoriented condition when opposing a check.

Interesting! I didn't know that. (Not that it made any difference in my corrected post above.)