I'm kind of hoping 5 greens with heroic, crack shot, and optics still fits.
Otherwise I'd be also happy with 3 named and two blues with upgrades.
I'd be shocked if you get to keep all the named.
Maybe it'll become 4A with a support ship though.
Five A-Wings
On 6/18/2019 at 3:59 PM, Micanthropyre said:Otherwise I'd be also happy with 3 named and two blues with upgrades.
This seems to be what now fits well. I've been building Talli, Greer, Zari and 2 Blues with the new points. All with Heroic and AO, then Talli and Greer get crack shot. Also Lulo, Talli, Greer and 2 Blues. All w/ AO except Lulo, Crack on Talli & Lulo and Heroic on just Lulo.
Edited by RStan11 minutes ago, RStan said:This seems to be what now fits well. I've been building Talli, Greer, Zari and 2 Blues with the new points. All with Heroic and AO, then Talli and Greer get crack shot. Also Lulo, Talli, Greer and 2 Blues. All w/ AO except Lulo, Crack on Talli & Lulo and Heroic on just Lulo.
I’m flying exactly same list
6 minutes ago, kenoslaw said:I’m flying exactly same list
Greens feel almost useless unless you already have Greer, Zari and Tallie now.
One intriguing exception for the greens is that a crack green (heroic is assumed) is one point less than an Optics Blue.
The bid and extra initiative is actually worth considering in many cases, (although a bare Blue with only Heroic is just fine too, but I don't think I'd want more than one in my Fives)
Like i wrote before, advance optics combined with heroic are the most essential part of this list
6 hours ago, kenoslaw said:I’m flying exactly same list
The one without Lulo? Because that's where I was going, too.
I’m going to finally put 5A on the table. It just got worse, though, didn’t it? Hopefully everything else did, too?
I’ll be going with a non-L’ulo version, too
Edited by gennataos2 hours ago, gennataos said:I’m going to finally put 5A on the table. It just got worse, though, didn’t it? Hopefully everything else did, too?
I’ll be going with a non-L’ulo version, too
Honestly, I'm not even sure.
Stressed Lulo has a similar damage output on average as adv optics. But he has higher peaks and lower valleys, so overall less reliable. Sometimes a 4dice attack is necessary - and so threatening! - and that got lost. But the average didn't really change.
What did change is the loss of an i5, and that hurts. But then again, almost all my games were with 4 greens and Lulo, so that doesn't affect me either.
Lastly, we can maybe revamp the discussion about optics on i5s. Does Tallie really want it, or is another green and crackshots for everyone just as good if not better? I think Tallie wants optics, but our friend @SOTL at least tries the version with another green and more crackshots.
On 6/27/2019 at 9:17 AM, kenoslaw said:
You can still do six with heroic, but one has to be Finn in the Pod.
______
@GreenDragoon , I'm personally seriously considering Marksmanship over Crack for 3 reasons:
1. No charges
2. In a high hull (Decimator) meta, Marksmanship helps when Crack doesn't.
3. This squad, possibly more than any other, chips and runs all game. That late game is when shields are down, and a crit could tip the game.
Edited by BucknifeNot to derail the thread, do any of the primary participants have an opinion on the "best" A-Wing at this point? L'ulo is still good, but...man, Tallie or Greer with Optics and Heroic is 2 points less than him naked. If I5 doesn't prove important, Greer looks fabulous.
Edited by gennataosEven if the meta develops into a very heavy i5 one, Greer is still at minimum the most efficient, if not the best RZ2. Her action economy is tremendous.
Edited by RStan5 minutes ago, RStan said:Even if the meta develops into a very heavy i5 one, Greer is still at minimum the most efficient, if not the best RZ2. His action economy is tremendous.
Just now, gennataos said:
Forgot, not assumed 😛 fixed
I agree, Greer is the best. Tallie has i5, which is of course good, too.
I haven't put it on the board yet, but to help keep Lulo in the squad while also still having Talli and Greer all with the upgrades I want, I've looked at taking out 1 AWing for Finn w/ Heroic & C3PO. He's another pretty consistent 2 hit result ship that can actually provide a 3 dice gun if the rolls show up worth it to create 3 via his ability. Granted he doesn't have a rear arc like the RZ2s, but he does provide utility via the coordinate if necessary which seems pretty good going into the first engagement for Lulo. If Lulo is the last moving ship, give him a focus so he can lock + boost and if there are threats moving after him, give him an evade so he can focus + boost.
Edited by RStanOn 6/27/2019 at 9:05 AM, RStan said:This seems to be what now fits well. I've been building Talli, Greer, Zari and 2 Blues with the new points. All with Heroic and AO, then Talli and Greer get crack shot. Also Lulo, Talli, Greer and 2 Blues. All w/ AO except Lulo, Crack on Talli & Lulo and Heroic on just Lulo.
I built exactly that first list as well.
On 6/29/2019 at 1:25 PM, GreenDragoon said:Honestly, I'm not even sure.
Stressed Lulo has a similar damage output on average as adv optics. But he has higher peaks and lower valleys, so overall less reliable. Sometimes a 4dice attack is necessary - and so threatening! - and that got lost. But the average didn't really change.
What did change is the loss of an i5, and that hurts. But then again, almost all my games were with 4 greens and Lulo, so that doesn't affect me either.
Lastly, we can maybe revamp the discussion about optics on i5s. Does Tallie really want it, or is another green and crackshots for everyone just as good if not better? I think Tallie wants optics, but our friend @SOTL at least tries the version with another green and more crackshots.
Lu'lo was the hardest part of the list to play, and 5x Greens with Optics, Heroic, and Crack Shot had performed well in the past. I don't think the list actually got much worse except your endgame is a little weaker if you were good at keeping Lu'lo alive to get there.
The loss of the i5 and essentially an i3 hurts a little in the initiative-kill department, but otherwise the list has similar expected damage output.
I used to run without Optics on Talli anyway, and I'd say a fair amount of the time I wished I had them because there weren't any shots coming in. I could see dropping them for another Green and more crackshots, sort of a flavor to taste sort of thing. 5A was one of the first lists I built when I saw new points.
If the general power level of the game dropped a little, and that seems to be the attempt, then I don't think 5A actually is any worse off than it was prior to points change. My most difficult games were against Han/Wedge/Thing, and that list seems to have gotten murdered pretty hard. Another tough matchup was Vader/Soontir/2x Barrage Bombers, and that list still exists in a roughly unchanged form, but Lu'lo was actually kind of a liability in that matchup being "only" i5 and not having access to modification and reposition without losing durability. If Rey (who is my wildcard pick for shaking up the meta) is actually really good with the release of more crew and her points drop, then 5A will struggle if that becomes a 15% meta share or higher. Reasoning is that she has access to force+target lock on a ship that you can't burn down quickly, and it's a real possibility that a relatively lightly built Rey can take out 3 A-wings all by herself.
On the other hand, Chiraneau also poses a problem but at least there you are generally coming in from multiple angles so the reinforce won't matter for every shot. It becomes a damage race, and how the game goes is going to rely a lot on who Chiraneau has for wingmates.
15 hours ago, Micanthropyre said:My most difficult g ames wer e again st [...]
How did 2 jedi work for you? I got completely and utterly trashed and haven't touched the awings since xD
But I jump now back. As you said, the overall powerlevel came a bit down, and 5 Awings barely did. I'm excited for this wave!
5 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:How did 2 jedi work for you? I got completely and utterly trashed and haven't touched the awings since xD
But I jump now back. As you said, the overall powerlevel came a bit down, and 5 Awings barely did. I'm excited for this wave!
Honestly, have not played that matchup, and I expect that to still exist coming up
3 minutes ago, Micanthropyre said:Honestly, have not played that matchup, and I expect that to still exist coming up
Wait, you never played with 5A against two 3-force jedi and a third ship? I thought these lists are quite frequent. And I agree that they will stick around.
It caught me off guard, but at the time I was not able to deal any damage...
I think 4 optics greens with Zari is probably the best overall version of 5a left.
If you're running 5... You need initiative, you need heroic, and you need optics. A mix might be viable in there, but I can't see more than one Blue in the list still being viable for the initiative alone. Sep Drones and Precise Hunters are gonna be everywhere.
Just now, Bucknife said:I think 4 optics/heroic greens with Zari is probably the best overall version of 5a left.
^^^ This (with heroic added for clarity).
25 minutes ago, Bucknife said:I think 4 optics greens with Zari is probably the best overall version of 5a left.
If you're running 5... You need initiative, you need heroic, and you need optics. A mix might be viable in there, but I can't see more than one Blue in the list still being viable for the initiative alone. Sep Drones and Precise Hunters are gonna be everywhere.
Greens going up to the same price as Zari is bizarre, only in that...Zari will always be taken before a green. Weird.
I don't know if CIS is what I'd worry about with 5A.
1 hour ago, gennataos said:Greens going up to the same price as Zari is bizarre, only in that...Zari will always be taken before a green. Weird.
I don't know if CIS is what I'd worry about with 5A.
Decimators? Jedi? Kihraxz? Falcons?
Bombs and Plasmas are personally what I'm most concerned about.
A's just can't afford any auto damage of any kind.
41 minutes ago, Bucknife said:Decimators? Jedi? Kihraxz? Falcons?
Bombs and Plasmas are personally what I'm most concerned about.
A's just can't afford any auto damage of any kind.
Stuff that can reliably pop one in a turn and lots of green dice which can shrug off their attacks? That's about as specific as I can really think.
18 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:Wait, you never played with 5A against two 3-force jedi and a third ship? I thought these lists are quite frequent. And I agree that they will stick around.
It caught me off guard, but at the time I was not able to deal any damage...
its true. I started dabbling in other lists as 2 jedi with things was coming into the scene and dodged a lot of those matchups. That will likely be the first thing I test against.