2 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:Wait, you never played with 5A against two 3-force jedi and a third ship? I thought these lists are quite frequent. And I agree that they will stick around.
It caught me off guard, but at the time I was not able to deal any damage...
I never had trouble with 3 force jedis tbh
2 hours ago, kenoslaw said:I never had trouble with 3 force jedis tbh
Just focusfire and overwhelm?
you need to teach me when I come to Krakow 😄
10 hours ago, Micanthropyre said:its true. I started dabbling in other lists as 2 jedi with things was coming into the scene and dodged a lot of those matchups. That will likely be the first thing I test against.
Well, now we've got Quad Jedi (Ani, Obi, Plo, Mace).
Here's where the fun begins....
Heads-up, all;
I've started a couple threads called the " JUKE PAINT CHALLENGE ", documenting my testing of 4 RZ2s as a control list.
One is in the Battle Reports thread, and other in Squad Lists.
Let me know if you guys try it out.
It's been a blast in my casual games, and I'm working on whittling it down to it's most competitive state (which may only end up being two RZ2s with a Transport and T70, but we'll see!)
I need some recent updates. I have two weeks to hammer down a Resistance list, which is probably going to be Poe plus stuff, but don't need a ton of nudging to finally try 5A.
29 minutes ago, gennataos said:I need some recent updates. I have two weeks to hammer down a Resistance list, which is probably going to be Poe plus stuff, but don't need a ton of nudging to finally try 5A.
I played some games and got often lucky+won.
That means swarms and aces are manageable, beef is something I didn't encounter yet. I very likely will on Sunday. Overall the list feels as good as ever. Lulo was a (mental) trap for myself, too, and now he's not around anymore.
@GreenDragoon , even before the points change (partially because I expected him to go up), I was nixing Lulo in my 5A since he just acts differently than my other RZ2s.
Lulo's numbers are different for Optics and Heroic than normal As, and his strategy on arc rotation and linking to boost all have a different decision tree than my other As.
I've formally regulated him into my "alpha strikers/end gamers/suicide run" categories of pilots, rather than an equal part of a 5A.
Now, there is 4A, however.........
14 minutes ago, Bucknife said:@GreenDragoon , even before the points change (partially because I expected him to go up), I was nixing Lulo in my 5A since he just acts differently than my other RZ2s.
Lulo's numbers are different for Optics and Heroic than normal As, and his strategy on arc rotation and linking to boost all have a different decision tree than my other As.
I've formally regulated him into my "alpha strikers/end gamers/suicide run" categories of pilots, rather than an equal part of a 5A.
Now, there is 4A, however.........
Same here, that's why I always called the list 4+1. Lulo was the odd one out, clearly.
I'm wondering about this as version 3.1:
Tallissan Lintra (36) , Heroic (1) , Advanced Optics (4)
Greer Sonnel (36) , Heroic (1) , Advanced Optics (4)
Blue Squadron Recruit (33) , Heroic (1) , Advanced Optics (4)
Blue Squadron Recruit (33) , Heroic (1) , Advanced Optics (4)
Finn (29)
,
Heroic (1)
,
Advanced Optics (4)
,
Perceptive Copilot (8)
Total: 200
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0
See from the other thread:
Quote
the 42pt version has crazy offense and defense!
Finn with Heroic and assuming he adds a focus result (because adding a blank is unfair in the comparison)
- 3PO:
- Perceptive:
- Perceptive and Optics:
The offense of Finn with optics and perceptive and heroic is insane for a 42pt ship - and so is his defense! The only downside is the bad dial, but it does not matter as much in this list
The main downside is that the pod moves so differently from the other ships, so it plays differently.
And my alternative is Finn with 3PO and Heroic, no Optics. That leaves enough points for this:
Tallissan Lintra (36) , Heroic (1) , Crack Shot (1) , Advanced Optics (4)
Greer Sonnel (36) , Heroic (1) , Crack Shot (1) , Advanced Optics (4)
Zari Bangel (35) , Heroic (1) , Crack Shot (1) , Advanced Optics (4)
Blue Squadron Recruit (33) , Heroic (1) , Advanced Optics (4)
Finn (29)
,
Heroic (1)
,
C-3PO (6)
Total: 199
I’ve finally started down the 5A road. Tallie/Greer/Zari/Bluex2 so far, super powerful.
Is the consensus that this is the best combo? Double Blues critical mass for blocking? I’ve thought about dropping the cracks to upgrade a blue to a green (seems initiative meta-dependent). Or drop Tallie, the cracks and a single heroic to upgrade both blues to Greens (seems just worse).
Edited by gennataosI am toying with pod, and finn is wow. But when coming down to 4A + smth, 5th Awing is just doing those things better. 5/4/3/1/1 with 2 cracks just works better. Wooden pod dial is the issue. He anchors entire list or dies alone, if you try to work jt out differently, As become more predictive as they go to protect the pod.
16 minutes ago, gennataos said:Is the consensus that this is the best combo?
In here, probably yes. See:
On 6/27/2019 at 4:05 PM, RStan said:This seems to be what now fits well. I've been building Talli, Greer, Zari and 2 Blues with the new points. All with Heroic and AO, then Talli and Greer get crack shot. Also Lulo, Talli, Greer and 2 Blues. All w/ AO except Lulo, Crack on Talli & Lulo and Heroic on just Lulo.
I've seen SOTL on reddit mentioning a version without optics on Tallie but more crackshots:
2 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:In here, probably yes. See:
I've seen SOTL on reddit mentioning a version without optics on Tallie but more crackshots:
- Tallissan Lintra (36) , Heroic (1) , Crack Shot (1)
- Greer Sonnel (36) , Heroic (1) , Crack Shot (1) Advanced Optics (4)
- Zari Bangel (35) , Heroic (1) , Crack Shot (1) Advanced Optics (4)
- Green Squadron Expert (35) , Heroic (1) , Crack Shot (1) Advanced Optics (4)
- Blue Squadron Recruit (33) , Heroic (1) , Advanced Optics (4)
From my half dozen games so far (a pittance compared to you guys), Tallie had uncontested shots a ton. Doesn’t seem worth it.
@kenoslaw
- Did those videos your stream game(s) ever get moved over to YouTube our somewhere? The twitch video is gone.
2 minutes ago, gennataos said:From my half dozen games so far (a pittance compared to you guys), Tallie had uncontested shots a ton. Doesn’t seem worth it.
I agree, but I'd go as far and say it depends on the matchup. Against very reliably green dice. crackshot is worth a lot to push damage through! But if your meta is similar to mine where beefy lists are the most prevalent archetype then optics seems more reasonable.
5 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:I agree, but I'd go as far and say it depends on the matchup. Against very reliably green dice. crackshot is worth a lot to push damage through! But if your meta is similar to mine where beefy lists are the most prevalent archetype then optics seems more reasonable.
I’m primarily looking at 5A for GenCon, and have no idea what that meta will be. Wild Wild West. Anything goes.
Edited by gennataos6 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:I agree, but I'd go as far and say it depends on the matchup. Against very reliably green dice. crackshot is worth a lot to push damage through! But if your meta is similar to mine where beefy lists are the most prevalent archetype then optics seems more reasonable.
I’d say you need crackshots rarely when you know how to set up killboxes, also crackshots then to temp you into using them, while real power are rear arcs and consistent dmg with optics. At least for me.
18 minutes ago, gennataos said:From my half dozen games so far (a pittance compared to you guys), Tallie had uncontested shots a ton. Doesn’t seem worth it.
@kenoslaw - Did those videos your stream game(s) ever get moved over to YouTube our somewhere? The twitch video is gone.
GC games are on Yt. Vassal ones i have no idea. I plan on streaming some myself if i’ll find an audience
2 minutes ago, kenoslaw said:I’d say you need crackshots rarely when you know how to set up killboxes, also crackshots then to temp you into using them, while real power are rear arcs and consistent dmg with optics. At least for me.
I agree, but I have a lot of trouble against lists like Fenn Guri, 4 Starvipers, Silencers or Imperial aces. Mostly because they get to arcdodge too often and the remaining shots are then evaded.
I get what you are saying, but a killbox with all 5 ships against a very mobile ace is rare for me. And even when I manage to pull it off, they take a damage or two at max. And I can't do it as often as I would like, not against such mobile high initiative ships.
Crackshot has them at least scared and wasting actions to get out of bullseyes. But yeah, I still take the 5/4/3/1/1 version with 2 crackshots.
7 minutes ago, kenoslaw said:GC games are on Yt. Vassal ones i have no idea. I plan on streaming some myself if i’ll find an audience
Found them, thanks!
I watched @kenoslaw UK GC games. @kenoslaw uses a setup like I did with XXAA, with a pair of A-Wings in each corner and one in the middle. I do think there's room for using both that setup and Rtan's opening , match-up dependent. Like, in @kenoslaw 's final against Sam, it seemed the two I1's were over-exposed against the fast Jedi. There wasn't time to converge all arcs on a single ship like in the two other games. It seems to me that against a list with multiple fast ace-type ships, @RStan 's opening position might be preferred. Against anything else, I think I lean toward @kenoslaw 's, because that makes it harder on the opponent to pick a target than just generally heading toward the side/corner where the A-Wings are set up.
Great stuff. I wish I'd gotten actively involved in this far earlier.
1 hour ago, gennataos said:I watched @kenoslaw UK GC games. @kenoslaw uses a setup like I did with XXAA, with a pair of A-Wings in each corner and one in the middle. I do think there's room for using both that setup and Rtan's opening , match-up dependent. Like, in @kenoslaw 's final against Sam, it seemed the two I1's were over-exposed against the fast Jedi. There wasn't time to converge all arcs on a single ship like in the two other games. It seems to me that against a list with multiple fast ace-type ships, @RStan 's opening position might be preferred. Against anything else, I think I lean toward @kenoslaw 's, because that makes it harder on the opponent to pick a target than just generally heading toward the side/corner where the A-Wings are set up.
Great stuff. I wish I'd gotten actively involved in this far earlier.
I set up differently vs Han Jake or any other 2 ship kiting list, more swarmlike. When i played Jack Mooney that was my 6th or 7th time vs that list and i lost once, once you start spamming him with 3 arcs per turn he’s melting.
About GC final vs Sam, i’d still stick to 2/1/2 and denied flank, but my mistake was turning in T2, i think better option from there would be T1 - hard 1 and boost instead of BR left, and then 3 hard right with BR left leaving everything open for next turns while being away from fast ships
What’s RStans opening?
29 minutes ago, kenoslaw said:I set up differently vs Han Jake or any other 2 ship kiting list, more swarmlike. When i played Jack Mooney that was my 6th or 7th time vs that list and i lost once, once you start spamming him with 3 arcs per turn he’s melting.
About GC final vs Sam, i’d still stick to 2/1/2 and denied flank, but my mistake was turning in T2, i think better option from there would be T1 - hard 1 and boost instead of BR left, and then 3 hard right with BR left leaving everything open for next turns while being away from fast ships
What’s RStans opening?
I agree with your changes to the final against Sam, makes sense, create some distance.
Any strategic recommendations on a few opposing lists? I have my own opinions, but definitely trust this thread.
- TIE Swarm
- Imp Aces
- Republic Aces
- Sinker Swarm
- Rebel Beef
- Tavson/Kylo/+1
1 hour ago, gennataos said:- TIE Swarm
I try to get there from 3 angles. One i1 will eventually force a block and ruin the formation. TIE swarms in this matchup tend to go back and forth with their Kturns, so behind them is not a good place to be. The lateral positions are instead much better and force him to commit and turn in. Zoom around and take pot shots. I usually win this, but with low MOV. You are the "Control" guy here.
1 hour ago, gennataos said:- Imp Aces
Focus fire is key! But generally a tough matchup for me. I need the blocks. Overwhelm them, 3 agility dice will eventually blank out. Obligatory range 3 shot on Soontir - he needs 2 evades! My win condition is often to survive with more than Vader or half Vader is worth if I can't get him early on. Beatdown.
2 hours ago, gennataos said:- Republic Aces
Similar to imp aces: focus fire! They don't take damage on combat turn 1 due to the force (like Vader), but after when the force is gone you are good to go. Blocks help but are not as important here. Beatdown.
2 hours ago, gennataos said:- Sinker Swarm
Keep your distance and chip away. Similar to TIE swarms - wins are with low MOV. Last game I got my opponent to break into 2 groups,and Awings are fast enough to concentrate on one of them. This matchup plays more similar to rebel beef than TIE swarms though. Control.
2 hours ago, gennataos said:- Rebel Beef
Depends on the exact list. Sometimes you are the better jouster here! But another tough matchup where individual mistakes are the deciding factor for me.
2 hours ago, gennataos said:- Tavson/Kylo/+1
Honestly... no clue! Kylo is as hard to damage as Vader, but more slippery. Tavson with his reinforce takes f o o o o o r e v e r to kill. Depends on the +1 maybe?
About a dozen casual/practice games in (not all full, some abbreviated when "winner" was agreed upon). Win/loss maybe doesn't matter a lot for analysis, but I've only asked for a "losing" reset once during the second game after a bad action choice with Zari (BR instead of focus) and bump with Greer on the same turn. Every other game I've won or we determined I was too far ahead to continue.
Against most lists, it seems to come down to ranging the initial engagement and how that resolves. If I lose an A-Wing on the initial engagement, the slope of the battle becomes more uphill. If I don't, things feel easy and my most difficult decisions are how to create the next killbox (am I going for a bump. if so, who is going for the bump? can I get all other arcs on bump target? What happens if I miss the bump?).
Still incredibly powerful list. Definitely has some "panic" moments if something is lost initially, but can fight through it.