10 hours ago, kaffis said:

I agree, Darth Matthew, though I might argue the cost should be higher than a 50% premium to double the wounds. Not sure. But Dwarves as MSU elite infantry hits me right, and leaves room for Orcs to come as high model count units in interesting configurations, maybe with protected 1. What if they were infantry that came brutal 1 but deployed at 2x1, 2x2, 2x3, 3x3 at a premium cost?

It would have the 2x1 Thresher effect, offering a lot of threat that can crowd multiple, smaller units into a melee fight.

At 50% higher cost, you get 2 dwarf units for 3 regular.

In a 2x2 blocks, you'd get two dwarf units, each with 32 life each (64 total) , pairing off against 3 units of 16 life (48 total). Dwarfs would be up 16 life (about 25%), but the other infantry and throwing 6 dice (33% advantage) to the dwarf 4 dice. In a grind, it should shake out about right. I'd also make the dwarf dials a bit slower moving than spearmen (no march 4, and maybe a -1 on the bend); but give dwarfs good access to throwing out stun and immobilize tokens, so they'd have a shot at catching their opponents. Since the opponent has the advantage of movement speed and damage, I'd have dwarves swing early; at either 2, or 3 with an upgrade for 2. Hitting 1st in the grind will off set the damage advantage normal units have over them.

I still can't wrap my head around Orcs. If Dwarf's are durable elite, undead are an infantry horde, Uthuk are berserkers; what's left for orcs?

What if the advantage of Orcs was all on the dial? Have the movement be sooner than normal for charges, and later for non-charges. So blues are later, but give a few Yellow forwards and yellow charge modifier.

It could represent the orcs raging into combat. That theme of advance late and charge early can be carried through to all the orcs units (just like many human units can gain inspiration).

12 hours ago, kaffis said:

So Viktus106, you're suggesting an orc army, pointed appropriately, would have 21 trays and average 8 wounds per infantry tray to be the "high wound army"? That's outrageously beefy and total power creep over even the resilience of Spined Thresher- or Flesh Ripper-based armies...

I'm just spit balling ideas here, not laying the ground work for an official faction but I like the idea of having a smaller, elite army.

Two units of Ravagers AND a 2 x 3 cav unit was certainly over zealous.

54 minutes ago, Darth Matthew said:

At 50% higher cost, you get 2 dwarf units for 3 regular.

In a 2x2 blocks, you'd get two dwarf units, each with 32 life each (64 total) , pairing off against 3 units of 16 life (48 total). Dwarfs would be up 16 life (about 25%), but the other infantry and throwing 6 dice (33% advantage) to the dwarf 4 dice. In a grind, it should shake out about right. I'd also make the dwarf dials a bit slower moving than spearmen (no march 4, and maybe a -1 on the bend); but give dwarfs good access to throwing out stun and immobilize tokens, so they'd have a shot at catching their opponents. Since the opponent has the advantage of movement speed and damage, I'd have dwarves swing early; at either 2, or 3 with an upgrade for 2. Hitting 1st in the grind will off set the damage advantage normal units have over them.

I still can't wrap my head around Orcs. If Dwarf's are durable elite, undead are an infantry horde, Uthuk are berserkers; what's left for orcs?

What if the advantage of Orcs was all on the dial? Have the movement be sooner than normal for charges, and later for non-charges. So blues are later, but give a few Yellow forwards and yellow charge modifier.

It could represent the orcs raging into combat. That theme of advance late and charge early can be carried through to all the orcs units (just like many human units can gain inspiration).

Guess it depends on the lore really. I don't know enough about the Rune Wars Orcs to be able to describe how they would go to war. I mean, are they 40k Orcs in that they just scream 'Ere we go Boyz ! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH !! and charge in head first (aka Uthuk) or are they more like Elder Scrolls/D&D Orcs in that they are noble warriors/shamanistic Barbarians that have a distinct culture, language and beliefs but just go into a blood frenzy during combat but otherwise are fabled blacksmiths and battlefield tacticians, more along the lines of Spartan Hoplites and Roman Centurions.

I think your dial idea is on the right track though. You could add to it with unique upgrade cards. Perhaps they could have a champion that you exhaust prior to rolling dice and all hits are automatically assigned to a Champion or Siege Upgrade within the enemy unit, however, the enemy also gets to do the same and attack your champion, so it's like a duel of sorts.

4 hours ago, Darth Matthew said:

Infantry get a boat load more options for upgrades. Cav is much faster than siege. If you just look at health and hitting power, you're ignoring the strengths of cav and infantry.

The topic of discussion for the post was "health" and especially as to how it relates to the top lists at worlds. And while those things are true, how much should they be worth in points? One might easily ask infantry and cavalry how those upgrades and speed worked out for them at worlds.

1 hour ago, Vergilius said:

The topic of discussion for the post was "health" and especially as to how it relates to the top lists at worlds. And while those things are true, how much should they be worth in points? One might easily ask infantry and cavalry how those upgrades and speed worked out for them at worlds.

As the person who - at worlds - reminded people how good Warsprinter and Aggresive Shrieker is, I would just like to chime in and say speed does indeed help.

Absolutely. Maybe I’m just losing the thread of what people are actually arguing now that we’ve got three sub-topics to the thread.

On a side note, new factions or no, I'd like to see future units with dual upgrade slots of various kinds. Could make for some fun game design.

42 minutes ago, Jukey said:

On a side note, new factions or no, I'd like to see future units with dual upgrade slots of various kinds. Could make for some fun game design.

Dual upgrade slots how? Two of the same type of upgrade? One upgrade slot that can be either this type of that type?

I've long wanted a "branching" training upgrade for Latari that would permit a unit to take two training upgrades at a premium, since they rely so heavily on them for functionality that gets built into other units or functionality that is core to their faction theme...

I'm thinking things like being able to take Column Tactics and Rank Discipline on the Leonx 1x3 formation, making that dramatically more playable... Even if you had to pay 10-12 points for the combination instead of the 8 point sticker price for the two upgrades by themselves.

Or taking Lay of the Land and Hedge Shroud on Darnati.

56 minutes ago, kaffis said:

Dual upgrade slots how? Two of the same type of upgrade? One upgrade slot that can be either this type of that type?

I've long wanted a "branching" training upgrade for Latari that would permit a unit to take two training upgrades at a premium, since they rely so heavily on them for functionality that gets built into other units or functionality that is core to their faction theme...

I'm thinking things like being able to take Column Tactics and Rank Discipline on the Leonx 1x3 formation, making that dramatically more playable... Even if you had to pay 10-12 points for the combination instead of the 8 point sticker price for the two upgrades by themselves.

Or taking Lay of the Land and Hedge Shroud on Darnati.

Something like an upgrade card that fills both an Equipment Slot and a training slot. Could be like Heavy Lance (fills equipment and training) , or surcoats (fills equipment and banner)

Fantasy Flight did this with Armada. They made upgrade cards that filled 2 slots.

Branching could be done by:

Latari only: Skill: "Extensive training". 4 points. Unit gains 2 more open skill slots. So you spend 4 points to be able to spend more points on 2 more skills.

Yeah, that's exactly what I meant by the branching. I'd probably theme it more tightly to elves by calling it "long-lived veteran" or something, though.

You could even make it unique or limit 1 per hundred points or something...

Either way would be cool, I initially was thinking two slots of the same type, but I also would enjoy two slot upgrades.

Basically anything that switches up the way to look at building units.

A Heraldry Champion could be quite cool. Kind of like a Company Banner or perhaps a Seige Champion or a Seige Musician aka FURY ROAD!

On 11/29/2018 at 6:05 AM, Viktus106 said:

A Heraldry Champion could be quite cool. Kind of like a Company Banner or perhaps a Seige Champion or a Seige Musician aka FURY ROAD!

Every time someone kills off a berzerker to gain lethal I yell "WITNESS ME!"

What about a Runewars Skirmish game using individual minis rather than groups?

This will also give FFG a chance to make scaled models of their Descent Heroes, and pit them against each other in quick battles with small teams...

2 hours ago, jrvk777 said:

What about a Runewars Skirmish game using individual minis rather than groups?

This will also give FFG a chance to make scaled models of their Descent Heroes, and pit them against each other in quick battles with small teams...

I've been thinking about trying something like this. I love runewars mechanics, but I think it would be fun to try something more terrain focused and smaller.

I've started thinking about this too. I picked up a legion measuring tool, and it fits the round bases, but not siege or cavalry.
3D printer to the rescue?

On 12/6/2018 at 9:52 PM, jrvk777 said:

What about a Runewars Skirmish game using individual minis rather than groups?

This will also give FFG a chance to make scaled models of their Descent Heroes, and pit them against each other in quick battles with small teams...

That's an interesting mash up and a nice idea.

Runewars models go to Warlords of Erewhon.

Would it be too crazy to have them release some wildcard type upgrades? So an upgrade that fits into any upgrade slot. This would allow them to produce something akin to unique upgrades for existing units without a unique slot. The cost of the upgrade (besides the points) would be it filling the slot you put it in. So if you made a wildcard upgrade that was Rune Golems only, for example, it could go into either their equipment or banner slot, thus preventing them from taking one of those two.

7 minutes ago, QuickWhit said:

Would it be too crazy to have them release some wildcard type upgrades? So an upgrade that fits into any upgrade slot. This would allow them to produce something akin to unique upgrades for existing units without a unique slot. The cost of the upgrade (besides the points) would be it filling the slot you put it in. So if you made a wildcard upgrade that was Rune Golems only, for example, it could go into either their equipment or banner slot, thus preventing them from taking one of those two.

That would basically end up like the bomb slots for Ywings in XWMG 1.0. It is an option, though I’m not excited by it.

Any news or at least rumors about new models ?

1 hour ago, magicrealm said:

Any news or at least rumors about new models ?

There's currently nothing on the horizon. Which is a bit worrisome. Even during the 6-month drought, we had stuff being delayed, not just unannounced like we do now?

8 minutes ago, Glucose98 said:

There's currently nothing on the horizon. Which is a bit worrisome. Even during the 6-month drought, we had stuff being delayed, not just unannounced like we do now?

You mean the 6ish weeks of quiet since worlds? That isn’t a big enough gap for me to worry as FFG isn’t trying to rush expansions to get the game to a healthy competitive place anymore

4 minutes ago, Church14 said:

You mean the 6ish weeks of quiet since worlds? That isn’t a big enough gap for me to worry as FFG isn’t trying to rush expansions to get the game to a healthy competitive place anymore

I know a lot of you guys aren't worried, and that's good. I'm just anxious about it -- they almost always had something 'under development'. The game is really amazing, but I'm not confident the sales have been.

7 minutes ago, Glucose98 said:

I know a lot of you gu  ys aren't worried, and that's good. I'm  just anxious about it  -- they almost always had something 'un  der development'. The game is really amazing, but I'm not confident the sales hav  e been.   

Looks like a lot of stores sold out of their stuff for the holiday season. Not knowing what their initial stock of the product was doesnt make that mean a lot, but it's something.