I'm on the sky is falling side. I've been to 2 store tournaments now and Spectre Cell won both times with little difficulty not having any losses in Swiss either. When 7 and 8 point figures are 1 shotting eWeequays, EGamorrians, eJets, eRangers, eRiots and eSentries, and are 2 shotting extra armor IG all without command card help it's pretty demoralizing. SC Ezra with Extra Armor is harder to take down then Jedi Luke, has just as many attacks, has better surge options and has rerolls. That's just 1 of them! SC chopper is a 3 point Bossk with 1 less passive damage and 5 less health. And Zeb is an 8 point fixed Chewbacca with a "slam" that can put up 8 max damage but no stun. Hera, a 4 point figure, can 1 shot an eWeequay on her own without help and in return an eWeequay can put up a maximum 3 damage before command cards. Granted their value is in their command cards but we're talking minimum 3 attacks for eWeequays to kill Hera and minimum 2 attacks to kill chopper. It takes eWueequays a minimum 4 attacks to kill Ezra if he roles a blank defense die every time and doesn't recover or have extra armor. There's only so many command cards for them to spend before they've exhausted over half their deck to take out a 7 point figure, which isn't even guaranteed.

The thing that bugs me is that each of the figures are already being used in other competitive lists. Han-rangers with Sabine is a really good list that has a reliable way to pick up that last damage if a figure barely hangs on after an attack. And Ezra-Luke is a super fun core with tons of flexibility for front and ranged support attacks. Put Spectres together with SC and what you get is a 39 point list with a free invisible Motivation-Palpatine.

Here's the scenario that made me lose hope: han-rangers vs Ezra with heart of freedom, pummel and that other command card to recover health according to the round. 2 focused rangers with tools for the job and a han attack did 9 damage to Ezra round 2. Ezra then heart of freedom'd and the other healing command card to recover 4, then pummelled to kill a ranger, put damage on another and recovered 2 more, then kanaan went and killed a ranger and SC'd Ezra to kill the 3rd ranger AND recovered again. By han's next activation in round 2 all 3 rangers we're gone and Ezra had 1 damage done to him. That was not due to a difference in skill between the players it was due to an unfair team and good luck.

Yeah guys Spectre is really really really strong. I've seen it lose to IG twice now on Lothal, but it definitely has the edge on Tarkin, and I haven't watched it on Uscru so I'm not sure how it fairs there as much. It's unfortunate that Ezra has the "turn a die" mechanic (meaning his rolls before Kanan dies can't be toughed luck on offense) along with recover. I don't really wanna spell out why Spectre is so good here, but I will say: it is beatable, however, it is probably the most consistent list in the game right now by a decent margin.

After quite a few games against it, I unfortunatley now agree as well. I am about at 25% win ratio against them with meta lists and about 30% with cell hate lists (lots of stun and sturdy lower cost figures). Franky, I cant find anything that is even close to having an edge on them. They are too good alround.

I am actually voting (like there is a vote...) for a straight up ban of the Spectre cell card.

The sky is not falling, but unfortunatley the game is not as fun anymore.

I think I would just tear up my SC card and burn it. They’re already fun and strong without it. No idea how the devs thought a passive block AND a passive damage would be anywhere near fair for 2 points.

3 hours ago, Ram said:

I am actually voting (like there is a vote...) for a straight up ban of the Spectre cell card.

Unfortunately I don't think we'll have the "gentlemen's agreement" like we kind of had with ugnaughts. The barriers to build the list aren't there like there was with ugs, and people will generally enjoy hacking and slashing with the Rebels gang, unlike the sitting in your base while the junk droid plinks stuff.

If Lothal Wastes does indeed get into the map rotation as expected ... buckle up and enjoy the ride.

3 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

I think I would just tear up my SC card and burn it. They’re already fun and strong without it. No idea how the devs thought a passive block AND a passive damage would be anywhere near fair for 2 points.

It's not even the extra damage and block. It's that in combination with the free attack. Strength in Numbers with the SC attack is much, much more flexible than Son of Skywalker and Blaze of Glory which are both more expensive.

Well at the Nordics, there was 2 SC list out of 10 and they got smashed by Isaac`s Han -Rangers and Arvydas´ Vader, Palp, Thrawn list and didnt make top 4, so they can be beat, but yes they have an advantage on Tarkin I think as well, but hey thats life, just practice against them and find a way.

3 hours ago, GilDK said:

so they can be beat,

Nobody is making the argument that Spectre Cell is unbeatable, just that it has a very consistently high floor, is generally unpleasant to play against, and that's not good for the game.

4 hours ago, GilDK said:

Well at the Nordics, there was 2 SC list out of 10 and they got smashed by Isaac`s Han -Rangers and Arvydas´ Vader, Palp, Thrawn list and didnt make top 4, so they can be beat, but yes they have an advantage on Tarkin I think as well, but hey thats life, just practice against them and find a way.

I'd love to try the Vader, Palp, Thrawn list. Any idea on what else is in it? Any idea on Command Cards?

5 hours ago, NeverBetTheFett said:

I'd love to try the Vader, Palp, Thrawn list. Any idea on what else is in it? Any idea on Command Cards?

DTs and Strength in Numbers. Then you activate DT-Thrawn-DT-whatever in sequence

On 10/27/2018 at 11:30 AM, TheWelcomeMat88 said:

In fact, why not run all 3 in one list :)!

So I've been working on a list with all three just because it seems like it would be really fun. I hardly ever play Imps though (not really sure why) so I'm not sure what to finish the list with... Any ideas?

I'm thinking:

TA (1)

Onar (6)

Hondo (6)

Thrawn (6)

Emperor (8)

subtotal (27)

...?...

then I'm not sure... I've always liked BT-1 and he is another 6 pointer and a hunter besides... I'm pretty familiar with playing merc hunters... The 6 pt Sentry Droids look good and since they are troopers they might go well with Death Troopers and Thrawn... Any good ideas? Just fill it up with Death troopers for more activations and flexibility? (for 13 I could have 2 eDTs, a rDT and an officer or Zillo and Extra Armor?)

Anyway, maybe it will be fun going all out Evil Empire for a change... but I already miss my Gideon/R2/3PO comfort blanket...

15 hours ago, Golan Trevize said:

DTs and Strength in Numbers. Then you activate DT-Thrawn-DT-whatever in sequence

It surprises me that this list would do so well, but I assume if you can draw SIN early that would make a big difference. Also, I guess there's a lot of tokens to be handed out, especially blocks, and Palps and Vader can do auto damage. I'll have to give it a try some time.

4 hours ago, NeverBetTheFett said:

It surprises me that this list would do so well, but I assume if you can draw SIN early that would make a big difference. Also, I guess there's a lot of tokens to be handed out, especially blocks, and Palps and Vader can do auto damage. I'll have to give it a try some time.

Disorient was quite nice when pirates and rangers were more popular in previous meta. With Vader or Palp you can hit a pirate almost anywhere on the map and remove his focus. He also suffers 2 strain.

1 hour ago, Golan Trevize said:

Disorient was quite nice when pirates and rangers were more popular in previous meta. With Vader or Palp you can hit a pirate almost anywhere on the map and remove his focus. He also suffers 2 strain.

LMAO!!!!!!!! That is hilarious. I never even thought to use that card that way. Since they give auto damage (and Palp from anywhere!). I love how I can keep learning new stuff even though I've been playing for years.

Back to your initial question I would appreciate if someone could share Arvydas' command deck at last Polish and Nordic Nationals. He won with such a list and I wish to give this list a go.

Wasn't it just this?

http://tabletopadmiral.com/imperialassault/138dada3a21a1a5ca98b0000000000e50b0f63da7781d5cab635e617392b

It was on the thread about Nordic Nationals under Organized Competitions.

That seems about right, it was also posted on the Zion's Finest Slack somewhere but I couldn't find it looking for it. I know it wasn't "Unshakeable Vader," and you'll notice he's only running 1 Parting Blow. Also it include Grizzly Contest and Force Surge, so lots of counters to "Second Chance" in this list.

But is it good enough to combat Spectre? Also, from the ZF podcast it sounded like Han Rangers has a clear advantage against this on the new map.

10 hours ago, Mandelore of the Rings said:

Wasn't it just this?

http://tabletopadmiral.com/imperialassault/138dada3a21a1a5ca98b0000000000e50b0f63da7781d5cab635e617392b

It was on the thread about Nordic Nationals under Organized Competitions.

Yup thats it, I am playing it with a small modification in the CC, and are still contemplating about changing EA for Unshakable.

4 hours ago, NeverBetTheFett said:

But is it good enough to combat Spectre? Also, from the ZF podcast it sounded like Han Rangers has a clear advantage against this on the new map.

I'm 4-0 now vs Spectre with Han-Rangers-Sabine, with the caveats being that I haven't played them on Tarkin yet and that I had a lot of white die luck in my last game on Lothal.

Still though, it's a start. The rangers' innate pierce is helpful, and since Spectre gets so many blocks you aren't ever going to over-surge since you can always spend an extra surge on the second pierce. 7 health is still often enough to stand up to a spectre attack if they don't roll well, and having Sabine around to grenade whatever you can't finish off is nice.

With SC I suffer on Uscru as well. I lost only against Han-Ranger so far. That's why I prefer Doubt to Extra Armor. I think SC suffers on wide maps like Vader used to suffer on Nal Hutta.

Do we know if the maps will change?

The nee Maul map is murder on snipers

One of SC strengths is all the pierce, so how about Double Bantha + Onar where pierce is useless. Round it out with Loth Cats with last resort and a pet for Onar, load up on creature/brawler command cards:

Deployments:
Bantha Rider [9]
Bantha Rider [9]
Loth-cat [Elite] [6]
Loth-cat [Elite] [6]
Onar Koma [6]
Indentured Jester [1]
Last Resort [1]
Last Resort [1]
Beast Tamer [1]
Commands:
Counter Attack [2]
Grisly Contest [2]
Parting Blow [2]
Wild Fury [2]
Jundland Terror [2]
Jundland Terror [2]
Pack Alpha [1]
Ferocity [1]
Roar [1]
Marked Territory [0]
To the Limit [0]
Element of Surprise [0]
Celebration [0]

This seems like a really fun list!

4 hours ago, Mandelore of the Rings said:

This seems like a really fun list!

Sure it does. Bit i sold my second Bantha when i realized 2 massive units tend to get in each others' way and i néed good cards to get those extra stomps.

2 spectre attacks tend to kill a Bantha straight up.