16 minutes ago, Seabook said:
I feel like Freud would have to say a lot about why this article resonates with particular people. This reeks of beta/alpha male bull, and "women don't know their place now that we've let them be educated"
I'm so very sorry about your genitals.
Back to the original intent of this thread.
Really like Solo. Saw it twice this weekend. Acting was good, had everything that I hoped for. Probably the second best of the 4 new movies.
It baffles me that some people can happily accept a movie about space wizards fighting with laser swords, piloting ships faster than the speed of light, blowing up space stations larger than planets, and being trained to lift rocks by a green muppet, but the moment there's a woman or a black guy as a main character, suddenly they're like "this strains my credulity." Come on. Our society isn't just made up of white men. Star Wars should aim to reflect this.
Edited by Captain Warden35 minutes ago, mcworrell said:Back to the original intent of this thread.
Really like Solo. Saw it twice this weekend. Acting was good, had everything that I hoped for. Probably the second best of the 4 new movies.
It was pretty good and I'd place it at #2 too behind Rogue One. It was definitely better than TFA or TLJ though IMO.
26 minutes ago, Captain Warden said:It baffles me that some people can happily accept a movie about space wizards fighting with laser swords, piloting ships faster than the speed of light, blowing up space stations larger than planets, and being trained to lift rocks by a green muppet, but the moment there's a woman or a black guy as a main character, suddenly they're like "this strains my credibility." Come on. Our society isn't just made up of white men. Star Wars should aim to reflect this.
I agree. The only point on which I have had a problem with any aspect of politicization of the films has been when it has been heavy-handed or poorly done. For example, in TFA with the Rey/Finn stuff where she didn't need/want his help. That was GREAT. Well done. In TLJ, the entirety of the Canto Bight scenes and the awful Poe storyline with Holdo on the other hand...
The Poe/Holdo story would actually have been ok except that he was willing to listen to Leia. Instead, the story relied on her inability to actually communicate a plan to a person who was, evidently, second in command...maybe...or not...who knows.
2 hours ago, CommanderBurnham said:I feel like Freud would have to say a lot about why this article resonates with particular people. This reeks of beta/alpha male bull, and "women don't know their place now that we've let them be educated"
I'm so very sorry about your genitals.
the entire wolf hierarchy thing only applies to wolves from seperate origins in captivity. the man who originally described the Alpha-beta hierarchy in wolves has since adressed this flaw in his earlier work and regrets the misuse by people. I agree on your assesment that the people this article resonates with are men insecure in their masculinity, a group for which these products and methods to 'Be alpha' is being sold to, however I disagree that we should ourselves fall to pretending that a decades old flawed understanding of wolf social behaviour applies to humans.
basically the redpill people who are so obsessed with being ALPHA are saying they should be locked up in a cage with a bunch of strangers.
the same principle of not keeping up with the scientific understanding can be seen in people not accepting the modern understanding that sex and gender are seperate things, they'd much rather use some OLDER science and then say "because SCIENCE!"
Edited by GeressenHrmm.... how to put this....
1, If your not worried about minority rights why do so many of your posts mention it?
2, A CEO may indicate the direction but do not have control or time to oversee the day to day issues...
3, The boycott of Solo is more damaging to Solo than to the TLJ trilogy... all it will do is stop the solo movie spin offs because that is where the drop in viewers happened. Companies will not look at a long term cause of drop in numbers unless the drop is over a long term basis... and this will be after they have done the usual steps of cutting what appears to be a bad direction.
Edited by slasher956Someday, in a galaxy far far away, I’ll get to see reviews of a modern movie without some SJW Incel Redpill turd (let’s face it, a Trumper as well) screaming about the bad SJWs and how women have too much influence in their movies.
As best as can tell, the reviews amount to:
- Don’t expect new guy to be exactly like Harrison Ford and you’ll be okay
- Movie was a fun popcorn action movie
- Danny Glover needs his own Star Wars movie
I haven’t seen it yet but will. Did I miss anything relevant? Anyone is welcome to reply. If you mention SJW issues in any way I will not give a flying **** about your opinion.
@Seabook you do realise the empire are the baddies right?
34 minutes ago, slasher956 said:Hrmm.... how to put this....
1, If your not worried about minority rights why do so many of your posts mention it?
2, A CEO may indicate the direction but do not have control or time to oversee the day to day issues...
3, The boycott of Solo is more damaging to Solo than to the TLJ trilogy... all it will do is stop the solo movie spin offs because that is where the drop in viewers happened. Companies will not look at a long term cause of drop in numbers unless the drop is over a long term basis... and this will be after they have done the usual steps of cutting what appears to be a bad direction.
A boycott to Solo is a warning call for Lucasfilm that we didn't liked what we saw on TLJ. If you keep supporting any single movie, you are just saying well, it is fine, I am not upset at all, just keep throwing me more. Also agree that having 1 Star Wars movie per year kills any expectations, it is not the same feeling anymore. I can watch Solo later without spending my money on it
15 minutes ago, Seabook said:A boycott to Solo is a warning call for Lucasfilm that we didn't liked what we saw on TLJ. If you keep supporting any single movie, you are just saying well, it is fine, I am not upset at all, just keep throwing me more. Also agree that having 1 Star Wars movie per year kills any expectations, it is not the same feeling anymore. I can watch Solo later without spending my money on it
No boycottoing Solo is boycotting solo thats it... there is no impact or anything to do with TLJ ... Just because you say your boycotting X for reason Y doesnt matter to the company that makes X...
Also who are you agreeing with that having 1 SW movie per year kills expectations? As I didnt say that....
2 hours ago, Seabook said:I see that nobody here knows how to take critics seriously and that still thinks the problem is women in Star Wars, when the problem is Kathleen Kennedy alone (or together with Rian Johnson as I despise what they both did with TLJ). Are you guys that desperate to have more bad Star Wars movies?? I think nobody here understood that I am not worryed about minority rights, diversity or all that crap, this is not the place to discuss this and other politic stuff (which is why I said this is polemic and only divides people, thanks again, Kathleen). I am worryed about Star Wars, I am worryed about the future of Star Wars, I am worryed about the next trilogy to follow the same path that The Last Jedi did. If I was worryed about discussing politic stuff, I would be discussing that elsewhere, not here. I am worryed that we will waste another trilogy, by the same 2 minds responsible for The Last Jedi, AND I ONLY SAW PEOPLE HERE TALKING BULL**** OR JUST MAKING FUN! You all must have really loved The Last Jedi, then you deserve the next bad trilogy, for all due respect to the blind people here. Solo didn't followed the stupid ideas of TLJ, but it was badly affected by it, you can see the damage already done, Solo didn't got the numbers expected by the franchise. I know there is still episode IX to be released (not excited at all to know how this Kathleen trilogy will end), but if the first movie of the next Kathleen trilogy follows the same path of TLJ, don't blame me later, because I told you so. But keep supporting her bad movies, you guys are doing a terrific job. :3 ?
Hey I've got some free time today and am actually willing to engage with you. I just want you to share your own thoughts on the issue. Simply posting links to (absolutely nutty) opinion pieces written by very angry people doesn't make an argument.
Tell me in your own words what these people ruining the franchise have done in your mind, or what parts of the movie actually bothered you and why. Because so far it seems to me that you read a bunch of biased articles telling you to be very angry about something, and have fallen right into it.
7 minutes ago, TheEasternKing said:A classic example the "N" word, [...]
Oh no
8 minutes ago, TheEasternKing said:The issue is politicizing a fantasy movie.
Before the thread gets locked...
I think the "not-fans" are the ones doing the politicizing (In my opinion of course). Aren't the four new films rather tame on hot-button social issues?
Anyhow, I really liked Solo. It was fun. It was a fun movie. I'm seriously not sure why folks don't just go out and enjoy it for fun-sake.
I love it when people complain about entertainment media being politicized and then advocate a return to media with straight white men and brainless trophy women for them to earn through their exploits, as though somehow that type of media isn't itself relying on socio-political assumptions or making any socio-political statements about anything.
6 minutes ago, duck_bird said:Tell me in your own words what these people ruining the franchise have done in your mind, or what parts of the movie actually bothered you and why. Because so far it seems to me that you read a bunch of biased articles telling you to be very angry about something, and have fallen right into it.
1) The horrible story written by Rian Johnson for The Last Jedi. If you liked TLJ, don't even try to argument with me.
2) Rian Johnson did exactly what Kathleen Kennedy wanted him to do and she fired other directors that thought differently of her.
3) Hooray! Next trilogy gonna be written by Rian Johnson with the total support of Kathleen Kennedy.
7 minutes ago, Seabook said:1) The horrible story written by Rian Johnson for The Last Jedi. If you liked TLJ, don't even try to argument with me.
2) Rian Johnson did exactly what Kathleen Kennedy wanted him to do and she fired other directors that thought differently of her.
3) Hooray! Next trilogy gonna be written by Rian Johnson with the total support of Kathleen Kennedy.
Gonna moderate a little here....
@Seabook the reasons you are stating here are personal bias against these two individuals with no substantiation, which isn't what @duck_bird asked for. Please take a second to elaborate as to WHY these two people shouldn't be involved with Star Wars any longer....
7 minutes ago, Snipafist said:I love it when people complain about entertainment media being politicized and then advocate a return to media with straight white men and brainless trophy women for them to earn through their exploits, as though somehow that type of media isn't itself relying on socio-political assumptions or making any socio-political statements about anything.
Not sure if this was aimed at me or not.
I was not advocating any such thing, the point I was failing to make was, people rarely get upset and up in arms over mundane things, just simply making the positive changes, without announcements, or addressing a perceived issue what needs fixing, would have been the best way to go about it, there are many many correct arenas to raise awareness in, a movie people watch for entertainment is not one.
My mother is 64 years old, she rarely watches anything gory, and won't watch any movie / tv series, showing the depths of human depravity, she does enjoy watching the Marvel films, and I've been trying to get her caught up so she can see Infinity war, my last visit we watched Civil War, and the scene where Captain America kisses Peggy Carters niece, she pulled her face and wasn't happy about it, now that is a white woman, watching a white man kiss a white woman, she didnt like it because she felt it was contrived romance in an action film (I asked her why). This is no different to disliking 2 guys kissing in StarWars, it has nothing to do with homophobia, and making people feel like it was put in for a politcal reason and not because it was core to the story, or enhancing the star wars universe.
I mean there must be anything we can imagine as happening, happening but its not getting screen time is it? Slavery is a big thing in SW, we arent seeing that on screen with a not so subtle message about how deplorable it is are we? where does a movie stop being entertainment and become a platform for views?
2 minutes ago, moodswing5537 said:Gonna moderate a little here....
@Seabook the reasons you are stating here are personal bias against these two individuals with no substantiation, which isn't what @duck_bird asked for. Please take a second to elaborate as to WHY these two people shouldn't be involved with Star Wars any longer....
Isn't it obvious? I don't have much time neither, but w/e. The Last Jedi was a horrible sequel for The Force Awakens. One movie have nothing to do with the other (althought the same can be said about episodes IV and V). But on TLJ, they changed every single aspect, so I will try to be short.
1) Ships running out of fuel in a stupid and pointless pursuit with nothing happening besides catapult shots being fired. Genious space battle script...
2) Characters lost all their personality from TFA and were forced remodeled in TLJ. Luke throwed away his lightsaber like it was a piece of ****. Kylo forgot about Darth Vader completely. Holdo x Poe fight was very stupid... my personal opinion, they killed Ackbar, Phasma (possibly) and Snoke leaving almost nothing for episode IX, and so on...
3) Luke drinking milk from an ET ****, what a nice thing to keep in the movie...
4) Porg$...
5) Kylo and Rey connection, shirtless, another weird scene to keep...
6) All the other blank plots on TLJ that everybody already talked and discussed about before. I don't even mind how Leia escaped alive or how they killed Luke or how Rey is so OP to defeat Luke, but everything else failed miserably for me.
7) What I liked: Poe defeating alone a big First Order ship (still a dumb move from the First Order with a comic dialogue between Poe and the FO officer) and that was the only thing I liked on the movie.
26 minutes ago, moodswing5537 said:Gonna moderate a little here....
@Seabook the reasons you are stating here are personal bias against these two individuals with no substantiation, which isn't what @duck_bird asked for. Please take a second to elaborate as to WHY these two people shouldn't be involved with Star Wars any longer....
I suppose there are two responses one could give against KK & RJ being involved with Star Wars.
One is this near "alt-right" view that KK+RJ are advancing SJW-politics through Star Wars, and that politicizing Star Wars is unacceptable and this brain-washing conspiracy must be stopped. That view is batty and morally bankrupt, in my opinion, but sadly it appears to be a movement that is out there.
The other, which I suspect Seabook is meaning to tap into, is that KK+RJ have created
bad
Star Wars films, and bad in the sense of either not-respecting the source material or being just unenjoyable or otherwise flawed films.
Personally, I despised TLJ. Not because it advanced any "SJW-Agenda" or whatever bantha poodoo nonsense the first group claims, but because the movie was deeply unenjoyable to me. It was loaded with cringe-worthy humor clearly trying to tap into that "Marvel Movie Formula," yet this just served to really take me out of the film repeatedly. It made the First Order out to be less competent than Elmer Fudd, which further reduces tension and immersion. It also repeatedly violated the "rules" of the established world, like with arc-ing turbolasers, worthless capital ship shields, Force Ghosts shooting (well summoning) lightning, re-inventing the Force as some cosmic scale-balancer so that Light and Dark will always be kept even, the Holdo maneuver, etc etc etc. It also disregarded the mystery boxes put into place in TFA, which is in some instances fine (e.g. Rey's parents being nobodies, allegedly) but in other instances was a huge problem (a big chunk of TFA was finding the "map to Skywalker" which R2 springs to life to provide, but then we find out Luke "never intended to be found" ... uhhhh, so
why
was there a map? How did Luke get to Ach'to in an X-Wing
without
R2 for astronavigation? Why did R2 have the information regarding where Luke went...? Terrible consistency with the preceding film. In this way, it disrespected the SW Mythos by adding in a bunch of new stuff that is inconsistent with our established, built world. As a fan of Star Wars, this was a problem for me. I didn't care that the cast had more diversity (yay!) or that Luke had become jaded (interesting...), but it was all the other stuff that bothered me deeply, as a long-time lover of Star Wars.
That being said, I have nothing against
KK
. While she was at the helm during TLJ, she was also at the helm during the creation of
Rogue One
,
Solo
, and
Rebels
, all of which I thought were rather well done. And it is very unknown to what extent she is involved in shaping the content that we receive on film.
RJ
, on the other hand, I would love to see never touch another Star Wars property. As the writer and director of TLJ, he is pretty clearly and solely responsible for the film we got, and I know I won't be seeing his Trilogy in theaters since I found so little enjoyment in his take on Star Wars as displayed in TLJ. I may not even see Episode 9 in theaters. While I think JJ is a passable Star Wars writer/director, I have so little interest in the NT story line at this point that I feel like, in my own opinion, JJ will be stuck trying to polish a turd as best he can.
3 minutes ago, Seabook said:Isn't it obvious?
No, that is why folks are arguing with you. I'm just trying to get you back on point
3 minutes ago, Seabook said:The Last Jedi was a horrible sequel for The Force Awakens. One movie have nothing to do with the other (althought the same can be said about episodes IV and V). But on TLJ, they changed every single aspect, so I will try to be short.
1) Ships running out of fuel in a stupid and pointless pursuit with nothing happening besides catapult shots being fired. Genious space battle script...
2) Characters lost all their personality from TFA and were forced remodeled in TLJ. Luke throwed away his lightsaber like it was a piece of ****. Kylo forgot about Darth Vader completely. Holdo x Poe fight was very stupid... my personal opinion, they killed Ackbar, Phasma (possibly) and Snoke leaving almost nothing for episode IX, and so on...
3) Luke drinking milk from an ET ****, what a nice thing to keep in the movie...
4) Porg$...
5) Kylo and Rey connection, shirtless, another weird scene to keep...
6) All the other blank plots on TLJ that everybody already talked and discussed about before. I don't even mind how Leia escaped alive or how they killed Luke or how Rey is so OP to defeat Luke, but everything else failed miserably for me.
7) What I liked: Poe defeating alone a big First Order ship (still a dumb move from the First Order with a comic dialogue between Poe and the FO officer) and that was the only thing I liked on the movie.
Okay, this is good. This is actual opinion on the writing and screenplay of the movie and story itself.
What I'd like to point out is that you wrote that whole thing without mentioning Kennedy, her agenda to change star wars and (thank goodness) diversity agendas in the new movies. SO, THIS is a good discourse for these forums. NOT the other Ridiculousness you were spouting earlier.
I liked The Last Jedi a lot.
1 minute ago, CaribbeanNinja said:I liked The Last Jedi a lot.
I did as well.
I liked it for what it is.... escapist fantasy fun with explosions!
Ok there are a couple of bits that grated/ clashed with previously established lore... but apart from the 'hard core'* fans most wouldnt notice or care.
*eg I'm a casual fan of the marvel films... I have a passing knowledge of the comics so can follow the story but most of the stuff that hacks off the marvel fans means nothing to me....
Edited by slasher956I enjoyed The Last Jedi, but not as much as I enjoyed the other Rian Johnson-directed films I've seen (Brick, Looper). I was hoping The Last Jedi would have more of Rian Johnson's visual style.
1 hour ago, TheEasternKing said:The issue is politicizing a fantasy movie.
I mean why state anything like has been stated, and simply not just do it? I mean it is supposed to be a galaxy ffs, a very densely populated I'm sure there must be all sorts of weird **** going on it, we manage weird **** on a single planet with a single species.
This is why the seabrooks of the world are getting angry / upset, by the very act of stating what has been stated you make people think they were excluded or included for "reasons" there is no need to list ANY reason in a made up galaxy, just do it and people will be completely fine with it. They feel like things they do not feel comfortable with are being forced on them, where is their choice to like or dislike something? that is what they feel is being removed from them, and thus all the nonsense we have seen here and elsewhere.
A classic example the "N" word, decades ago it was a word with real weight, disgustingly so, and yet over time it has lost nearly all of its power, but people who like to get offended for everyone else keep trying to tell us all it is a disgusting word, and they are empowering it again, it was becoming a slang word, harmless just like most words, yet people keep telling everyone its not harmless and all of a sudden its not harmless again. Doing exactly the same thing as telling people "well no gays are represented in SW, so we are putting it in." all of a sudden something that could have just been put in the movie, it is now something being shoved in peoples faces (that is how they perceive it).
And for the record before any people read things I have not written. I am in the camp of people can do what they want to each other, with each other, believe what they want, eat what they want, BE what they want so long as it is not taking anything away from me, you live your life, I'll live mine.
And we found seabook’s sidekick.