jhaelen said:

You know what? You are absoultely right and you just gave me a great idea of to how to revise him: (notice I also chaged the start of battle)

kroen said:

Nope, final battle's still easier than Cthulhu (because there's no epic battle deck for Zebulark). And besides, if you can get a 3 focus investigator 20 cash they can survive for ten turns. Ehhh... And you can't trade items... Mmmm... I suppose it's at a similar level. It'll be interesting to fight him.

Avi_dreader said:

There's not enough room for all these teaks without rendering the text readable only with a magnifying glass...

And you're sayng Cthulhu is tougher because of plot cards...? please, give me a break. if that's your reasoning I can easily make plot cards for Zebulark. Try again.

And good luck on getting 20$... and even if you does, how many investigatos will get so much money? other than you probably non... with ctuhlhu, EVERY investigator gets 7 turns without having to prepare himself years before the final battle hoarding for money rather than spending it on weapons... And you plan on getting 20$, for each member of your team, after ofcours they each have an ivnestigator with focus of 3 (most investigators don't have 3 focus), and non of them would even bother buying weapons? you may all get to the final battle with 20$, but that -6 would cut terribly trough your attacks as you would probably won't have any powerful weaponsl... unless you're suggestion that the 20$ that each and every one of your investigators have is AFTER they spent money buying weapons? I think you're underestimating the difficulty of getting cash. Sure, you can trade all your gates for cash at river docks, and you can camp at the newsletter for retainers, but isn't that time better well spent collecting clues and sealing gates? you know, you don't HAVE to find something wrong with everything...

kroen said:

Ten dollars can be gained instantly at the bank, and two gate trophies can make twenty bucks. It's not that hard to get (especially if you hunted for a retainer early in the game). I would assume that players would shop for common items against this AO (because the items in that deck are cheaper, and because he doesn't have phys res). I wasn't suggesting that all investigators could or would pull it off, but all it takes is *one* three focus investigator with alot of cash to just wait the guy out. ::Shrug:: the thing with Cthulhu is a couple of his sinister plot cards are lethal (and can take the players out prior to them dying from reduced max stats). I really don't think it's farfetched for a 3 focus investigator to play with a contingency plan (even if going for a sealing victory) and being able to take out the AO, even if the other lower focus investigators get picked off.

And yes, I do have to find something wrong with everything, I signed a contract ;') Seriously though, don't take it so hard, I wouldn't say anything if I didn't like your general idea. I don't believe I gave any criticism that wasn't intended as constructive. I thought you might want to be aware that a certain type of investigator will be able to play against your AO as it is currently designed and run circles around it ::shrug:: but you're probably right, without trading it'll be fairly difficult even for a high focus investigator to accumulate an arsenal. Sooo, lets say +8 combat with +5 fight. Seven dice per turn, a bit more than three successes per turn. With regenerate he could hold that off. I give you half an apology.

If your game plan is to hoard for cash and not spend it, rather than to spend then time hoarding for cash collecting clues and sealing gates, than you're one of a kind. 99% of all players would rather win by sealing/closing gates rather than to wait for the final battle.

And againt, your argument about one investigator lasting long holds no ground-- okay, so one ivnestigator would alst long. big deal. with cthulhu, EVERY investigators get 7 turns without even trying and cthulhu gains a maximum of 1 doom token per attack.

And you know what? even if zebulark is weaker than cthulhu, so what? so the hell what? most of the ancient ones are weaker than cthulhu, what's your point? why do I have to make an ao stronger than him? why?!?!?

kroen said:

::Shrug:: I go for sealing victories, but I also try to build up strong investigators for a possible final battle as a contingency plan (for most of the AOs— not ones like Tsoggogua though). Personally, I never thought Cthulhu was that tough, I'd typically manage to win with seals or to turn him into Calimari in direct combat, but then again, I usually play in three player teams— I was very pleased when the epic battle cards came out. Since two of them can potentially wipe out a team in a single shot (and of course there's the red epic battle card that kills a team instantly). I didn't say I think Zebulark is weaker than Cthulhu (I think, if I did what I meant was that I view him as potentially weaker in combat). His in game effect is much stronger and I like how it hangs together thematically, especially for its place in the 20s. Cthulhu always disappointed me, I felt like for such a big name he was an equally big pushover. Now if he reduced Sanity and Stamina by 2 ;') now there would be an Elder God worth having nightmares about. On the whole, I think your guy is tougher than Cthulhu, but as I said, I think you left open a potential hole for a combat exploit.

Don't all AO's have potential holes for a combat exploit?

MrsGamura said:

Eh, many do, but those weak spots are available for everyone. And some do to the point of absurdity (which is why I loved the epic battle cards). Believe me, if someone posted Nyarlethotep, I'd say I love him as an idea, but letting players use clue tokens while losing a roll is a really really bad idea ;') I'm still somewhat sour on the fact that Nyarlethotep is so easy in combat.

Avi_dreader said:

I know! My first time ever actually in final battle was when I was solitaire playing to playtest a Guardian and Herald together (I was running 2 investigators) against Nyarlathotep. One of them was offed instantly b/c he'd just lost all his Clue tokens to one of the Herald cards. The other was Gloria Goldberg, and she happened to be blessed a couple turns earlier. She had about 8 or 12 Clue tokens, not because I was planning to fight Nya but b/c she got kind of lucky with a few draws (and the doom track was so high I realized sealing a gate wouldn't help). With her Blessing and Shotgun (and 12 Clues), she single handedly killed Nyarlathotep (needing 2 successes to remove each token). I'd been under the impression that final battle was supposed to be difficult, but she only failed her Lore check twice ! (And the second time was because the modifier had finally gotten low enough that she was rolling no dice.) GAAH! [/rant]

Incidentally, the herald was Fah'ic, and his "Add a doom token" card popped up like 4 times that game. Not to mention the Impact cards he starts with in play, which cost a doom token to remove. (I removed only one; the other two sucked, but they weren't as bad as adding a doom token.)

Yenreb said:

Heh... Dkw posted a lovely Nyarlethotep Herald that allows you to play the masks without using Nyarlethotep as the Ancient One. i'm very fond of it.

I revised the modifier and defence on one the Ancient Ones, plus a brand new Ancient One:

Has anyone provided a Chaugnar Faugn great old one sheet?

Yenreb said:

If you click the button to the right of the link in the dialog, it will copy the URL to the clipboard and you can skip opening it and copying it from the address bar. Also, there is a small bug in the plugin; if you want a different resolution it isn't picked up the first time you change it. You need to cancel, then start the export again after clicking the new resolution. I've fixed the bug, but I can't remember if I've posted the update yet. I'm in the middle of a massive number of updates for SE and can't remember what's posted and what isn't. There is some pretty neat stuff on the way, though.

Cheers,
Chris

Here is the most ferocious ancient one:

Squirrels are evil and this one is really evil. Beware his minions the Squirrel Mob!

So that's what happens when Foamy finally takes over.

Yeah but this one doesn't complain and isn't funny. He just rips your head off and drinks your bodily fluids like a Push-up Pop. I guess that is still funny...

Here is an Ancient one I made in honor of one of my favorite movie villians

Bela Lugosi was badass in that movie.

Lord of Squirrels said:

I like everything about this card except the picture :')

Seriously though, if it had a picture more fitting with AH, I would make a printout of it.

Google Images if you care.

http://images.google.com/imghp?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hl=en&tab=wi

Dude this guy would be impossible to kill unless everybody just buys spells and ignore everything. Otherwise lots of dead monsters and a 20-30 doom track or higher. One guy I might want to wake up early just to get him at +2 or less (which the Dark Mark does for me so I guess that's cool). Should be a short game and a brutal beating by one party over the other.

Lord of Squirrels said:

You can try to win by sealing/closing gates? Voldemort's attack isn't half as devastating as Azathoth's...

I don't think any AO's attack is half as bad as Azathoth's half of the investigators lose?

Yeah but anything that messes with the terror level makes him show up real quick. I guess I would rather take the easy way out and just murder him. Besides I like shopping lol.

He's actually really easy if you just spend all your time shopping for spells and gearing up for the final battle, ignoring monsters except for any Dementors or Death Eaters that pop up. Once you hit the monster limit without any of those in play, the terror level should climb and he'll wake up with an most one or two extra tokens and a modifier of +0, then you just need to make sure the spells are spread evenly amongst your fighters (Which should be everyone, given all the time you have to shop).