-more actions per nation (so annoying to have only 3 turns when they give you an army of more than 15 bases/tanks etc!! u never get to activate all of them!)

Just a quick response. The action phase continues until both players are unable to complete any more actions. So the person with initiative gets 3 actions, then the other person gets 3 actions. Then the first person takes another 3 actions, etc. This continues until both players have declared an end to their action phase. So you should have activated all of your units by the end of the action phase before moving onto the command phase.

SHUT UP!!! are you serious!!¡???? you mean all this time i have been playing it wrong!!??? hoooooooooollllyyyyyy !!!!! geeez...I am speechless....are you sure about this? ths would make such a huuuuuuuuuuugggeee difference in the game! i cannot believe it..i gotta go read the rulebook again..

LoL

Yes thats the way its supposed to be played

Yep, I would have to say this would have to be one of the most misunderstood core rules of the game. When i first read the rule book upon getting the game over 2 years ago i thought it was played the same why you have been playing. But after setting up a test game and reading the rule book again it just didnt feel right so i went to the forums and found my mistake.

Its funny this is the one mechanic of the game that is misunderstood the most yet FFG has never put a clearer explanation of the rule in the eratta. Well the offical FAQ hasnt been updated since 2009 (very poor FFG) much smaller game companies seem to update mistakes within a month of a release and the desingers are on the forums answering questions.

I still play ToI (mostly making my own scenarios) but other games seem to hit the table more often due to much better support and releases which keep them fresh and exciting.

I have not bought anything from FFG since FotB (I was very disapointed in the final product released, very sloppy work) and I will not be buying anything from them until I see FFG lift their game (not holding my breath though) ToI could have been a huge series that by now should have had all theaters covered with expansions for them all, well this would have been the case if a company other than FFG had control of it.

Out of all the differnt games I have all the ones by FFG have to be the worst for final released product and support (I know their componates are nice but that dosnt mean much if the rules and scenarios that dive the game are released in sub standard condition.

FFG please lift your game ToI could be huge.

I played the game as it should be last night ...and boy what a difference!! I totally enjoyed it ! You are right Aussie, the FotB was a disappointment for me too....i was expecting sniper specializations, many more scenarios, expecting comander cards for the russians (to fit with the normandy stuff) and also weather cards for snow terrain, plus more snow maps, city fighting, etc etc.....also, i think it was kind of misleading to have such a large box when the components inside could easyly fit in a box the size of normandy and DotF!...

I am too disapointed that FFG hasnt updated the website...they have now 3 expansions to work with and they shyould include more scenarios for people to print. I really would like that scenario editor....i found out about it so late that i never had a chance to get a copy of it...i looked everywhere and i could not get one....oh well...maybe in the future someone will post it..

the one thing i liked about FotB is the amount of T34 tanks..that was cool...i hope we get a scenario when we can use all of these!! anyways...since I now know how to play the game properly I am going to have to replay AAAALLL my scenarios from the begining! hahaha...that's ok though, it will be like playihng new scenarios again!

oh AND ONE MORE THING....thanks KAISER33 for showing me the way! hahaah.

Sure. It's one of my favorite games.

If you do some searching around on www.boardgamegeek.com you can still find the editor and a lot of user-generated scenarios. Some of those are more fun than the official scenarios.

First, i would like to see a Scenario Book #2.
I liked the first, others hated the first, there are always mixed feelings.

Then i would like to see Map Pack #2, #3 and #4 expansions.
What kind of maps those should include? Well all of the 3 expansions.

Then, since they are doing the same with the Star Wars Miniature Game.
Miniature-Expansions would be a no brainer for TOI, would get sold out in no time!

After that it would be nice to see an boxed 4th Expansion that includes something with water, i'm missing naval units and air units.
I know that the battlefield would be quite big with naval and air units, but it is not impossible to accomplish.

That's just my personel wishlist, really, i would be happy with any release for TOI.

1.Would like to see the MM44 Equipment Pack next. Would like it even more, if it were FFG offering something similar, only with the better quallty models they are able to find. (50% probable)

2.Would surely pay for models like M7 Priest, Hummel, Marder II, SU- 76, T34/43 model (hex turret), T34-85, SU 152, Katusha rocket truck, Nebelwerfers, 105mm towed howiter, GW38 SPG, 25pdr field gun, Sniper figures and so forth and so on.(10% probable)

3.It would be excellent if the GHQ 1/285th scale models could be used to make molds for plastic models, Then use board with hexes in smaller scale, so could play on larger battlefield in same area set up. That would require A&A minatures 144th scale infantry figures too. (0.1% probable)

above listed in order of probability of attaining (from FFG)

No. 3 is actually Conflict of Heroes board with GHQ models so it already exists, and my money can go there perhaps when this post gets ignored as so many other players have also.

Yes, a vehicle and equipment expansion pack for TOi would be great. For memoir it's a nice addition, but for TOI I'd go as far as saying that it's an essential one!

Well i think any sort of expansion will be a miricle at this point in time. Although it one dose come out I wont be surprised if it is on the same sub par level as FotB, errors everywhere and they still cant fix them over a year since its been out. shame FFG shame!!

I have gone looking into other war games and have come across the lock n load system (band of heroes, but there are many expansions), now its a counter game (but the art of the counters and boards are amazing) its squad level and incorporates so many of the rules I wished were in ToI (I even think the rule book many even be shorter than ToI's but there is some much more meat to the game and almost seems easier to learn that ToI.also its soooo fun and has so much support from the designer.

Im even starting to think about selling of some of my ToI gear (as I have 2 copies of everything)

All I can say is if FFG kept this customer happy (even working rules and unbroken scenarios and maybe some support for the game) I might not have gone looking for where the grass was greener.

Aussie_Digger said:

I have to agree with this comment. I'd be really suprised to see anymore expansions for good ole' Tide of Iron.

Zvezda's Art of Tactic, much as I never thought I'd be typing here, but they have just top notch miniatures that surpass the high quality of the FFG Tide of Iron pieces. Of course, Zvezda is a model company to begin with, but the level of detail they bring to the table in their pieces is just not going to be beaten.

On top of that, Zvesda has kicked into high gear with supporting that game. They have just a ton of additional pieces available to add to the game, kinda like the above pictured equipment expansion shown for M44. We've talked on these boards for the past 5 years + now, about we'd like to see additional, stand alone models made available for Tide of Iron to add to the game. Well…Zvezda is doing just that for their game. If you don't paint (I do) you just snap the kits together and you wind up with just the same kind of pieces Tide uses…meaning nice looking but unpainted pieces. Zvezda's pieces beg to be painted just like the Tide of Iron pieces.

Then you have Zvezda having released not one, but two expansions for their game. Blitzkrieg 1940 is due out sometime around GenCon time. Battle of the Danube is already out.

So some of the things I type here in these forums about what I'd like to see get done for Tide of Iron, I actually see getting done by Zvezda for Art of Tactic. That makes me gravitate to Art of Tactic, as opposed to Tide of Iron, where I have to type posts about the things I would like to see them do for their game, on a forum that the company says they don't read.

kaufschtick said:

I have to agree, the minis Zvezda make are great, detailed and easy to assemble. I have been using their vehicles for ToI since they first came out.

I tried Lock'NLoad a while back, but it just did not click with me.

I have now found "I Ain't Been Shot, Mum" by TooFatLardies, and for me, this is just IT. Very flexible rules, elegantly designed, sterling support. Despite the slightly whacky name, this is a realistic company-level game which incorporates command, control and communication features with battlefield friction in a way I have not seen before. The card-activiation mechanism reduces analysis paralysis to an absolute minimum, giving the game a nice flow. It is a table-top system, but can easily be adapted to hex boards. And I can use all my toys with it. This is a game where realism and fun are not mutually exclusive.

TooFatLardies have already published tons of scenario and organizational supplements.

Its sad to see ToI die like this, cuz in many ways it is a good simple miniature game.

But the combination of broken scenarios and no support…

Grand Stone said:

It ain't dead yet, I think. I will continue playing ToI whenever I get the chance.

But given the speed of publication and variety of products from Zvezda, and the already existing range of M44, I think it will be hard to sell any newcomers on ToI.

KlausFritsch said:

It may not be dead…but when fans like you guys are talking of other games, that's not good for it's vital signs.

A real shame that not only does FFG not directly support this game, it doesn't even support it indirectly…I would've had a couple of campaigns out by now if I could've and that alone would've kept the community happy.

What is wrong with game companies?! Don't they know we want to play! We want to help! We want to be involved!

Sad but it seems FFG has caused a lot of use to go seeking other games. I had been working on some custom scenarios for ToI but I have just lost interest as I have come across other games that are very well supported and rules questions are cleared up offically in days not years.

Maybe someday my spark with ToI will return, but I don't think FFG will be the casue of that (unless they somehow release some flawless expansions and right their wrongs of the past.) I think the main reason will lay with the community.

Even though FFG my not see ToI as a money earner for them, seeing how they have treated the community has convinced me that I should not buy any of their products. Their are a number of games on here that look interesting but Im not going to buy anything with the FF badge on it, last time i did it was FotB when released, and they still havent had the decency to fix their mistakes that they charged us all for. Iv even had emails personal replyed to by the designer Rob Kouba telling me he was putting out the correction / Errata very soon, that was 12 months ago and again 6 months ago (making sure the current products are 100% before moving to the next one) So i will also be very careful about any products I see from other games companies that feature him as the designer aswell in the future. Anyway sorry to rant but FFG fires me up like that.

I will still keep hold of my ToI gear but really finding it hard to justify haveing 2 of all the expansions and base game.atm.

Brummbar said:

You're right, a couple campaigns would have keep the community happy. Th trouble for Tide of Iron was FFG's commitment to the fantasy game, Dust Tactics, or is it just Dust? I'm not sure, but the fantasy game on the alternate reality WWII deal. They decided to go that route, and ToI was left to wither on the vine, IMHO.

I seriously do not see myself ever playing ToI again, and it is a sad thing to say. It's funny, but I like ToI better than I do M44, but M44 gets the support from Days of Wonder…and for me, that's the difference. I still play M44, and will for quite some time. The game is like the energizer bunny, the support for it just keeps going, and going, and going…so I keep playing and playing, and playing.

Art of Tactic has moved in to fill the spot ToI used to occupy for me. Game boards for AoT are just as good in the practical sence as ToI, and Zvezda trumped FFG on the pieces, they raised the bar there. You are not going to beat Zvezda pieces.

The kill shots for AoT vs ToI are: A) the individual unit costs for the AoT pieces, and B) the support the company gives in terms of addition pieces and expansions. The unit costs makes it incredibly simple to DYO scenarios, and obviously, the rich choices offered with all the additional game pieces that are being added non stop, make AoT an easy choice over ToI.

Also, when you read things from the game designer for AoT, I'm probably misspelling his name here, but I think it's Konstatin; you get the feeling that he created the game with a vision in mind, and you can see he is making good on his follow through. Other than the scenario book for ToI, I never really felt that there was any meaningful feedback from the game designer. Kinda like fire and forget weapons, FFG did ToI like; "design and forget".

ToI had it's moment in the sun, it had a lot of potential at one point, but FFG was just not the company to make it happen.

Aussie_Digger said:

I agree on the not buying FFG games stuff anymore…ToI brought me back to boardgaming, but ever since I joined BGG my eyes have opened to the wealth of games out there from different companies…..and the level of support by them is fast and quick….

FFG games now seem to me to be more on the "heavier" and "longer" side, and while FFG components are great, so too are those by other game companies.

Well, I got TIde of Iron back when it first came out, because at that point, I had gotten frustrated with Axis and Allies Miniatures, fed up with the bait and switch marketing. Basically show the desirable units on the box, then you buy it, and all you get is a lot of undesirable and mixed up figures.

So Tide of Iron had this complete set of figures and vehicles, and nice graphics, and interesting description of game system, so I was sold.

Glad still, to this day, that I bought the game, and it is set up right now on my game table. The figures are painted, the vehicles I meticulously spent some time painted in correct looking colors and with the newer boards, it looks like a miniatures display.

Thing is, I rarely actually play the game with the TOI system. Instead, I have a synthesis of TOI and Memoir 44, called VolkSturm, which is more in depth than Memoir 44 but not nearly as complex and tedious as TOI. So it is quite easy to set up the board, and the pieces and teach someone how to play almost immediately. And the system I have does not require having to remove the figures from the squad base, which is a plus if you have painted them. All the markers for TOI are useful, as are the cards for Memoir 44, and also use the Airplane models from M44 AirPack. Likely, I will probably get that M44 Equipment Pack and integrate that in the game as well.

The one thing missing is a nice set of Russian infantry and vehicles which matches my sets of Brits,Americans, and Germans from TOI. So I may have to buy the FOTB just to get that set and some extra winter boards from TOI also.

Equipment Expansion Pack for Tide of Iron, Advanced Edition:

New Rulebook, clarifications, and options for additional units (listed below)

Rules suggestions:

Concealment expanded definition (requires spotting for ALL units in bldgs/woods not adjacent to enemy if not moved or fired in LOS )

Armored cars recon/command vehicle functions?

AA guns vs Aircraft attack

Transportation of field guns, AT guns by truck, halftracks

Limit number of units in a Combined Fire attack to 3 units, and the attack expends 3 actions, one concentrated fire action for each unit..The CF attack will still be resolved by adding lead unit full attack strength to the other 2 participating units at half strength for a total single die roll vs one enemy unit.

Redesigned hedgerow map sections (hedges along hexsides instead of in middle of hex),hex tiles with edge stone walls

Full size destroyed building/rubble hex tile

plastic model fortification (wall along permeter and with room to place AT gun/squad

Full size entrenchment hex tile

Model packs expansions for each nation:

American

2 75mm field guns

2 M7 Priest SPA

4 larger scale 57 mm AT gun models

6 M5 Stuart light tanks

2 Pershing heavy tanks

4 M8 Greyhound Armored cars

2 40 mm AA halftracks

2 Jeeps

British

2 25 pdr field guns

2 Bofurs 40mm AA gun

2 Sexton SPA

4 M4 Sherman Firefly tanks

4 larger scale 6pd AT gun models

2 17pdr AT guns

6 Cromwell tanks

2 Churchill tanks

4 Daimler Armored cars

German

2 75mm field guns

2 GW38 SPA

4 larger scale 50mm AT guns

2 Maultier Nebelwerfer Halftracks

2 PZ-IV Whirblewind quad 20 AA tank

4 Puma armored cars

4 Pz-38 model early war tank

8 Pz-III tank (needed for FOTB early war scenarios)

2 Marder-II TDs

2 Jagpanthers (88mm)

Russian

4 larger scale 76.2 AT guns

4 SU-76 SPGs

6 T-26 early war tank

4 Bt-7 early war tank

4 T-34/85 tank

2 SU-152 SPG

4 BT-20 Armored cars

2 Katusha rocket trucks

8 T34/43 plastic turrets to replace those 1/2ass turrets on the FOTB models

Second that rule clearifications, updates and scenarios is a major +1 for me. Or, even support would be nice. Ie. fan made scenario booklet is completly doable, but that needs some support…

Volkscamper, would you be willing to share your combined rules? Sounds interesting. I do not get to play TOI that often and a quicker set up time will encourage me to play solo more often

As far as expansions go. I woulsd like to see the other half of Fury And The Bear published, this will bring it in line with the supposed original expansion which was obviously bigger. After that a Pacific expasnsion will be great. The rules need to be re written to claify all the mistakes and things that are not very clear.

Player aid cards need to be redesigned so each nation has all their info on one card. A terrain and special effects player aid card would be handy.

Pacific, Sea Battle!

Let's face it, TOI is not a moneymaker like Dust Tactics, Descent or the future Star Wars Miniature Game.
Well you know all the things that sell well.

I doubt we will ever see any expansion again for TOI.
And to be honest, i don't really care anymore since there is no support at all for TOI since ages.
FFG has given up on it long time ago.

Would be really simple to bump the system up, VolksCamper posted the best examples for expansions that would bump up TOI big times.

VolksCamper said:

I was actually shocked a little that they didn't run hedges along hexsides. When the Normandy expansion came out, that was one of my biggest complaints. Also by using hexsides, they can introduce fences and walls. But currently, they way they do things is that each "hex" is a terrain type.

As for limiting the number of units that can perform a Combined Fire, I actually like this. Limit number of units in a Combined Fire attack to 2 units for green or untrained troops, 3 units normal or regular troops, and 4 for veteran or elite troops. Though, I would still make a Combined Fire attack one action regardless of the number of units that participate. That way it doesn't mess up the game mechanics. Also if you only have two actions per turn, how would you fire three units in a Combined Fire?