VanCamper said:

I would apply those rules only to troops trained in these tactics. Most infantry of all nations rode their halftracks to the battlefield, dismounted and proceeded on foot. The halftracks the provided fire support from farther back.

VanCamper said:

Both players could also secretly bid command points before making the roll to get a bonus of +1 per point on the result of the roll.

Or - perhaps just secretly bid every turn?

Hefsgaard said:

Sounds cool, will try that.

Thanks for the info everyone, I am still learning this game, and there are still some scenarios I have not yet played because they are too large really for solitaire, and also, not that many of my fellow workers are interested in larger games. So I have had to resort to making smaller scenarios, and leaving out a lot of rules to get some of them to be willing to play. (They want to play Memoir 44 more often)

If anyone has used VASSAL, there is a TOI module, which has a simple editor to make maps as a PNG. image, but do not know how to post them on this forum. The Vassal program uses images of the 3d models, which can be set up on the map, along with extra markers, etc. but there is no mechanism really to play the game with another player other than to use the die roll and manually move units. Its an easy editor to use, however, and boards and overlays are easy to set up, but so far, all I was able to do was download it as a PNG. file into my own Windows pictures library, and then can open it with the Paint program, to remove the extra hexes from the editor template. Not sure how you upload it on Google, where it could be an image that can be imported into this forum, similar to other images I have already posted.

In Paint program, you can erase the standard 3d plastic image, and paste images that from Google images, like those WTM models,, or Axis and Aliies vehicles, etc., but of course that wiil be just a fixed image edited map. Still, it might be useful if it could be posted in a topic devoted to scenario maps setup.

.Need to bring back the Scenario Editor, or make a new program so maps can be posted on the forum

Would be interesting to have quick turn scenario tactical challenges posted with commentary on what moves to make and what cards to activate to best completed the turn or turns, similar to a chess problem.

The more i think about it, the more I'm convinced the next expansion should be "Stalingrad". Why?

1.) We only have half a Russian army as opposed to the other nations. The Brits also saw their ranks filled out in the Normandy expansion after being introduced in DoTF ( I actually own two copies of FoTB because I didn't want to wait that long for the rest of my Russian army, haha. The extra snow maps are a nice addition to my collection too.

2.) We have an Eastern front expansion, but when you say "Eastern front WW2", I guess the first name that comes to mind with the majority of people will and should be Stalingrad. In other words, what's an Eastern front expansion without any Stalingrad scenarios?

3.) It would offer a great opportunity to add terrain such as: factories, (heavy)ruins, (wide) rivers, river banks, rubble, sewers etc.

4.) Op-cards and strategy decks could be added to depict urban warfare ("rattenkrieg" tactics deck, for example)

Kingtiger said:

Would love it!

Bastonge, Bulge Market Garden, Cobra, Pacific theater, France 1940.

At this point, I would be stunned to see another expansion for ToI.

What was FotB, something like two years after Normandy?

kaufschtick said:

I really wouldn't worry too much about that. I'm pretty sure something's in the pipeline. I wouldn't be surprised if we still saw some new product for the holiday season. I'm also quite confident that sooner or later the Japanese will be added to TOI. After all, the company literally announces this intention at the beginning of the base game's rulebook.

I hope the next box also comes with an extra rules compilation for all expansions so far and cards for units, obstacles and terrain.

Blitzkrieg East Campaign: 1941-1943: Advance to Smolensk, Encirclement of Kiev, Russian counter: Yelnya Offensive, Advance to Vyazma, Battle of Mozhaysk, Bryansk, Orel, Tula,Kalinin, Zhukovs winter counter attack., Advance to Stalingrad, Stalingrad, Mansteins counter offensive, Battles of Kursk.

Additional vehicles and tank models:

German: 4 SdKfz 234/2 Puma armored cars, 4 PzKw-II Light tanks,2 Gw-38 Spg, 8 Pz-III tanks,2 Marder-II, 1 Nashhorn, 1 Wespe 105 SPG, Quad 20mm Flak AA gun, 37mm AA gun on halftrack,, Maultier nebelwerfer halftrack, and 1 Wirblewind or Oshwind AA gun tank.

Russian: 8 BT-26, 6 BT-7, 4 BA-20 armor cars, 2 SU-76, 1 Katusha rocket trucks,1 Bofurs AA gun on truck,2 57mm AT halftrack, 6 T-34/85, 2 SU-85s

Model aircraft like Memoir 44 size and aircraft stands too. More detailed armament and attack values for aircraft. Rules for fighter aircraft to shoot each other in addition to attacking ground targets.

Game system simplified and with rules for transportation of towed guns/AT guns.

Bunker, fortification tiles, and entrenchment tile . Design some tiles that look more like destroyed bldgs and partial walls to replace the existing small round destroyed bldg markers. Reclassify those small markers as "Wreckage" markers for destroyed tanks (they actually kind of look like that IMO).

KlausFritsch said:

Separately added cards such as memoir 44 came up with would be very handy, I'd say.

To be honest a bought the game when I saw Fury of The Bear Expansion. I really hope to see Stalingrad Expansion it would be a must buy for me.

Reworked Tide of Iron Rules, with easier Turn sequence, an Action deck,and a Command deck, similar to Memoir 44, from which both players draw from each deck in the Command phase, which begins the turn, then the cards are resolved in the Action phase, after an initiative roll is made to see who plays a card first, followed by other player, until all cards are played. Then the status phase, and determination of control of objectives, which add +1 to owning players next intiative roll and a supply and communication determination relative to HQ and officer squad location to other combat units., which may effect if they can move or not, or limits their movement, until a line clear hexes unoccupied by enemy units, or in the ZOC (zone of control) of armored vehicles. Trucks could become like mini supply depots for determination of HQ and supply., by extending the distance a unit can be from HQ and still be in supply.

VolksCamper said:

Supply rules are completely out of place in a tactical setting such as ToI. Supply becomes important at the operational level and above. ToI scenarios represent around 30 minutes at most for very long scenarios. No need to refuel your tank in that timeframe.

Operational supply failures do have their influence on ToI scenarios, but they do not improve during the game. Therefore, they are represented by Operations Cards.

KlausFritsch said:

Actually I think that in practice the scale of TOI varies, although perhaps not as much as in memoir 44. In theory they're indeed relatively minor, short-lasting engagements, but there are many (offfcial) scenarios out there that definitely do depict much larger battles (e.g. Tank fight at Prohorovka, Operation Goodwood, Assualt on Kidney Ridge etc.)

Personally, I don't have any problem whatsoever with this, though, I mean the very terminolgy used in TOI (e.g. "division 1 and division 2") is out of line with the supposed scale of the game. I can accept just fine that in one scenario one tank represents one tank, while in another it may represent a dozen.

VolksCamper said:

I do agree with Klaus Fritsch though that what is being described here indeed belongs in operational and strategic wargames. I'm thinking of designing a future (Stalingrad) scenario with supply rules in them, but it would be more like the Germans becoming less effective the longer the game lasts, so supply would be represented as an off-board event. The position of the units that are on the board itself would not actually make any difference. However, an increasing lack of clothing, food, ammo and fuel would obviously affect the units' effectiveness.

Since most of my fellow co workers have not enough interest, nor the patience to play TOI or even want to set it up, I can usually only get them to play Memoir 44. So what I have tried to do is use the squads and vehicles, and the 88 flak guns, from TOI, to fill out some details in Memoir 44 scenarios, and use the basic deck of cards in 44 in place of the action phase. And instead of just rolling the normal 3 or 4 dice, I use the TOI unit tables for attack values and ranges of the units. I use the TOI boards and arrange them in similar fashion to M44 scenarios.

Now I have to figure out how to add Command cards, and so I thought of making a Command phase, Action phase, and Status phase similar to TOI, but made simple enough so that my co worker opponent does not start falling asleep while I re read the rules again.

So here is an experimental simple version:

Begin Turn:

Command Phase : Both players draw one card from their Command deck, and one card from the Action Deck (Memoir 44 deck)

Initiative phase : Each player rolls one die, adding the no. of objectives controlled, to the die roll. Winner may play his Command card now if card says it must be played in Command phase, or may hold it to play in the Action phase, preceding play of his action card.

Action Phase 1: The 1st (winning intiative)player may play his Command card, and play his Action card in whichever order he wishes. Or he may choose to hold his Command card for the next turn., and just play the Action card.

The 2nd player may choose to fire one or more of his units at any of the 1st players units if they move in LOS while executing the players action card instructions.

After both 1st player and 2nd player have resolved combat resulting from 1st players action phase., place fatigue markers by those units which fired, moved, or Op fired

Action Phase 2: Repeat sequence as in Action phase 1, for 2nd player. 2nd player may play his Command card or not, and must play his Action card. Any remaining non fatigued units may be given orders according to 2nd players action card instructions. 1st player, may fire any remaining non fatigued units with Op fire at any of 2nd players units that move while in LOS.

Status Phase: Players mark which objectives controlled if at least one combat unit occupies objective. All fatigue markers are removed.

End of Turn

Movement pt values and Terrain modifications (optional)

Panther, T-34, M-10, Crusader= 5

Sherman, PZIII/IV, JagPz, Stug,=4

Tiger 1, KV-1, Matilda = 4 * ( these tanks must expend 1 pt extra to enter hill hex from lower elevation hex.)

KingTiger= 3* (expends 1 pt extra to move uphill)

Halftracks= 4

Trucks= 3* ( Trucks move along roads at 1/2 pt, and may use road bonus also to move one addtional hex if still along road, for a max of 7)

Infantry Squads= 2

All NonClear terrain, except those with roads, costs 2 movement pts. Sand dunes require unit to stop upon entry. No vehicles may enter swamp hexes or building hexes.

Roads allow a unit to move one additional hex, if along road. So an Infantry Squad ,for example, may move 3 if on road.

Next, I need some kind of Table of combat values for individual Aircraft like ME109, Yak, etc. planes used in WW2, with both a ground attack value, and a figher combat value..

Then I need some AA values for Bofurs, 20mm Flak ,and 88 flak guns, maybe adding them in on the TOI charts.

Kingtiger said:

I know many designers think so, but at higher levels, the firing ranges and movement distances are completely off. The stats only fit at the small tactical level.

Using the word "division" was not a very good choice.

Yes, I agree to both your observations. Then again, to me it's not a big deal. TOI doesn't claim to be a truly realistic recreation of tactical scale battles. IMHO there is enough room and leverage to play with this idea a little. But hey, I can perfectly understand that someone else might diagree with me on this.

Prior to TOI, I played more platoon/ company level games which had a larger board, more hexes, and hex scale was 250 meters or more. So every kind of weapon was on the battle field as the board represented about a 10 mile by 10 mile area.

So I miss some of those elements. TOI could use some kind of HQ/communications/supply effect IMO, if not like ZOC or such, maybe at least something like in Aussie thread, radio communication and coordination of units. Proximity of units to one another and to their command unit may be more crucial for Russians than Germans. So a Russian unit not "in communication" ie. within a certain hex range, of the command unit, might have its firepower and movement halved, because tank crew is mostly reliant on platoon leader tank for instruction., so might not spot or engage enemy targets, or even move at all, fearing more the consequences of acting independently of "orders".

New units and addition rules for their use would round out TOI tactical options.

1. Airplanes- Memoir 44 Air expansion pack has a nice assortment of model planes that match TOI scale perfectly

2. Anti- Aircraft Halftracks- The small AA gun in Axis and Allies WW2 strategy games fits perfectly atop TOI halftrack models.

3. Additional vehicles for FOTB expansion:( including Addtional Scenarios for Early War, Stalingrad, Kursk)

German: PZ-II, PZ-III, GW38 SPG, Puma Armored Car

Russian: T-26, BT-7, SU-76, BA-6 Armored Car

Awakening of the Bear: Operation Barbarossa scenarios from June 1941- Feb 1942

Taunting the Bear: Operation Case Blue: May 42- March 43

Containing the Bear: Operation Citadel May 43- August 43

Slowing the Bear down: Aftermath of Citadel and Battles in Ukraine Sept 43-Jan 44

Fleeing the Bear: Destruction of Army Group Centre Feb 44- Sept 44

The Last Tiger: Defending the Fatherland. Oct 44- March 45