VanCamper said:

dont forget T-26 and Panzer II's, there were heaps of these at that start of the invasion

the expansion i would like to see next is one that has no errors, is play tested and proof read before hitting store shelves

That is most unlikely. I have yet to find a game that has no errors in the rulebook. From Any publisher.

I'd like the next expantion to be an electronic scenerio editor. Create a mechanism to share them online too, like they had before. Not sure why they removed the upload/download site from support. I'd say 'very odd', but I've not come to expect much in the way of communication from FFG.

If FFG provided one they could see a resurgence in their game interest. I'd imagine they could do it for a lot of their games too, not just TOI.

Well, I'm in my mid 40's now, and the rate at which FFG bring out new stuff for this game I don't bank on seeing another expansion in my life time.

I wish that FFG could make a computer version of TOI using the format similar to PanzerGeneral II game shown here, but just change the mechanics to match the TOI rules, so there are ranges, and the scale is like TOI, so, like the city, changed to the individual building , and such. The damage could be incremental or follow the light/heavy damage model of TOI. There could be concealed units, and additional images used, and it would really be something if a player could import photos of his own painted units in place of the standard image of a unit. A kind of editor, like in the old Axis &Allies/Iron Blitz edition, where you could import an image of like 60x60 pixels.

This is something I had posted on a forum labeled "Dear Santa (FFG)" but I think it fits better here.

So I was trying to think of a way FFG could create an expansion that would satisfy several fans of ToI by significantly expanding the game but at minimal cost and time on the part of FFG so they can also focus on other games they are working on.

A Urban Map Expansion pack could do this because it would require no new plastic. The pack could feature 9 double sided urban boards along with terrain overlays that would allow players to customize the maps to look like specific urban battles (An Eiffel Tower, Brandenburg Gate, and Reichstag token for example). This would allow FFG to simultaneously expand both Eastern and Western Front game play. New scenarios could include the liberation of French and Italian cities, Stalingrad, and the capture of Berlin. A historical fiction scenario could allow all three allied nations to hit Berlin Simultaneously in a massive battle.

The Russian campaign is large enough for several expansions, perhaps one for each operational phase.

1. Operation Barbarrosa- The first phase of invasion, to include early war German, Russian tanks PZ-II and T-26, a GW-38 mobile artillery gun, and maybe a 122 mm field gun for Russians

2. Operation Typhoon- Advance towards Moscow, and including Zhukovs counter offensive

3. Case Blue- 1942 Advance in the Caucasus and Stalingrad,

4. Operation Zitadel- Kursk and Kharkov battles- Some Su-76, more Russian 76.2 AT guns, nebelwerfer, and Katusha rocket truck

Nebelwerfer and Katuska would hopefully never see direct combat. They proberly could not even target anything as close as a large ToI map will allow.

Its true that Nebelwerfers and Katushas would not be used closer than about 1200 meters, if my former favorite wargames data is correct, having a rule that would not allow a unit of such to use indirect fire within that range. However, the rule did allow for direct fire if necessary. And Russians especially used SU 122, and SU 152 in direct fire closer ranges.

Likewise, artillery guns like 105, 155, or wespe, Hummel, would be off board, but I think since there already is a lot of abstraction in TOI, especially with the ranges of the weapons, vs movement values, it could be allowed.. So its possible to have some other pieces on the board, as in A&A, which is what I think is what makes A&A so interesting to play, even if somewhat more abstract. I guess, I just like to have a large variety of different kinds of weapons and vehicles, on the board, which TOI seems to be missing. Certainly a GW-38 could be included, and 25 pdr field gun, and a 122mm Russian field gun. A Whirblewind, Oshwind flakpanzer would be great, also. Definitely need some Cromwell tanks, and maybe a Churchill . Need a Jadgpanther too, and some armored cars to round it out nicely. I even have my planes models from Memoir 44 on the board, flying around and strafing or bombing ,and combating with each other also as an action phase option.

Individual units are quite easy to add to your own game. I even made a stab at it once, not with complete success though. The problem is that the current mechanics does not realy allow for much variation in the stats of diffrent vehicles. How to diffrenciate a PzIII b and PZIIIc for instance. In my own attemt I actualy had a PzIII version that mimicked a PzIV, simply because there is so little you can do to variate gunsize, speed and armor.

Hefsgaard said:

The armor units that are the smaller scale like the M10, Crusaders, Pz III, Panthers, and the assault guns,that came with the expansions, could be matched with smaller scale infantry figures from A&A, or Pegasus, and then the boards could be color copied and reduce the size slighty, so you can fit more boards in an area like a typical 2'X4' desktop. Probably something like a 30% reduction would work. But I am not sure if there are any similar scale armor to replace the larger Sherman, Tiger 1 and PZ -IVs.

Maybe thats what FFG should offer, is a replacement for the larger scale armor, including the Tiger II, with the same scale as the smaller units of Panther, Crusader, etc. And then continue to add some more vehicles, like armored cars, Cromwells, Sherman Firefly, M7 Priest, Marder IIs, in that same smaller scale (I am guessing its the 10mm type). I think the detail of these slightly smaller scale armor is actually better, expecially the Crusader and Pz IIIs., than the larger scale armor is.

Thought this might help with scale, all the tanks that are painted are world tank museum models 1/144 scale. I use WTM instead of the ToI minis i know they are a little bigger but they all fit in the hexes and look cool.

http://boardgamegeek.com/image/1059817/jesters_race?size=large

and while im at it here is the anti tank guns too.

http://boardgamegeek.com/image/1059841/jesters_race?size=large

I found this site that has a lot of 10mm scale variety of tanks and vehicles, which are like the TOI expansion set vehicles like Panther, T-34s etc., just slightly smaller I than the original TOI base set of Shermans, Tigers, and PZ-IVs

www.magistermilitum.com/prodtype.asp

www.magistermilitum.com/popuplargeimage.asp

I bought alot of my WTM minis from that store. The other figs that are there the 10mm are metal and unpainted, i didnt go with them because im not much of a painter, plus the WTM ones are very detailed

Hey everyone, I have been considering going Micro Armor scale, and reducing the TOI maps to about the actual size hex as seen above. The photo of the Tiger is a Micro Armor model, at approx. its actual size (fits within an area about the size of a US quarter) and the other photo is Axis and Allies Minature Mosin Nagant Russian soldier, also (as close as I can approx.) to its actual size.

Not only can I get lots of other vehicles, but also will have a larger size battle field in a typical 2'x3' area ,so more longer range units could be abstractly included without being completely unrealistic. So a Hummel, Wespe, M7 Priest, and 25 pdr, 105 mm field guns, and Nebelwerfer, Katusha, and Maultier mobile Nebelwerfer could be on board too.

it might have to require some modification of infantry stacking. I may go with some kind of max of 4 figures per hex, with MG figure or Mortar figure counting as 2 regular figures. And only one tank or heavy vehicle per hex . Or if staying with TOI stacking, use plastic chips under each type of figure to represent a whole squad.

.Back to what expansions one would like to see:

An Optional Rules Edition:

1. AT guns are attached to one infantry (non MG / mortar) squads as equipment, giving the squad the AF value and cover value of the AT gun. One AT gun + one squad not including a MG or Mortar= an AT gun unit with armor value of 2, and able to sustain 4 hits before destroyed. An AT gun unit is considered an infantry type unit on the attack table of reference sheet.

2. Combined Fire is limited to 3 units per action phase, and requires 3 actions( the same as if each unit was activated separately.).

3. Assault Actions :

A. Squads which are fatigued may not participate in an Assault action in the active players action phase, but may be part of the defense of a hex attacked by an assault in the opposing players Action phase.

B. Halftracks in the same hex as a squad activated to conduct an Assault, may participate in the attack, with 1/2 AF value. The HT counts as one squad..

4. Fire and Move : Tanks and Assault guns cannot move more than 1/2 their MP (rounded up) if executing a F&M. However, for Tanks the AF is modified by -1 AF per Mp expended, to differientiate them having turrets. Assault guns, having a fixed arc of fire, use 1/2 AF as per original TOI rule.

4a, Halftracks fire at 1/2 AF and may then move up to 1/2 rounded up their MPs, or vice versa.

5. Mechanized Assault Action : A Halftrack begining the turn in the same hex with unfatigued squad may declare a Mechananized Assault. The HT and squad may then be moved together, up to 1/2 rounded up of HTs MP, to a hex adjacent to an enemy unit and conduct an assault with 1/2 AF of HT and full strength of squad. The squad may not contain MG or Mortar., but may be a squad with AT weapon specialty or Flamethrower specialty.

6. Transport Action

A. It only requires one action to conduct a transport of a squad by designating a Truck or Halftrack as an activated unit, and conducting a Transport action. The sequence is the same, except that the squad(s) loaded and or unloaded do not require additional actions. The squad still must pay the 2 mps to load,or unload as per original TOI rule.

B. An AT gun unit (AT gun+ squad) may be transported like a regular squad, expending 2 mps to load or unload..

VanCamper said:

1.) Although I agree the AT rules certainly aren't flawless, your solution seems to complicate matters too. You're suggesting that an AT gun get the defense of the AT gun, but that it's treated as infantry? Might cause some complications. Do you pin it then or damage it? Also, I like it that theoretically another squad can man it once the first squad has been eliminated or pinned. How about capturing one? Does the enemy have to designate a squad to to man it? The only thing that really bothers me personally about AT guns is that they may not be placed in an entrenchment but can somehow still get +1 cover if one is in the same hex. Also, it would have made more sense to introduce an equipment subtype of unit rather than being torn between two thoughts in the sense that it's treated as a vehicle but is basically different in all respects.

2.) First of all, it seems better to me as a scenario specific rule. Secondly and more importantly, what if there are two actions per turn? In other words: change the wording!

3A.) While it is indeed a rule that's very different from the game's core rules, it's the only thing that really makes an assault attack worthwhile: being able to use your units twice! Also, without it, basically only flamethrower squads would consistently be able to successfully assault an enemy position in cover. You desperately need those extra supporting dice from up to two adjacent friendly units, even if fatigued.

To me it would make more sense not to allow units in op-fire to assist in the assault (attacking side). I would like to see an op card that allows for the assaulting of hexes containing heavy vehicles to be used in specific scenarios.

3B.) HTs being both squads and vehicles is confusing. See AT guns comment. I wouldn't go there.

4.) Wouldn't it be easier to simply say that units without a turret can't make fire and move attacks? Also, scenario specific rules (mud, heavy snow, mountainous terrain etc.) could be used to limit vehicle movement. On the whole I feel the current rules work just fine. Why do you have a problem with them, if I may ask?

4A.) I don't quite get that one. What's AF? Armor firepower?

5.) This idea I like. At the very least an op card to this effect might be nice That's the beauty of TOI: with the op cards small deviations from the core rules can be very easily introduced. I would have the unit start on board the HT as a prerequisite for the action, though! Here I like severely limiting the MV of the HT because otherwise a MV of 7 (6 for assault if we stick to the current assault rules for infantry) will allow you to assault from all over the place.

6.A) What's the problem with the current rule?

6B.) Yes, I definitely like the idea of an AT gun being towed by a truck or halftrack. OP card might help here too, but this is definiely a candidate for an advanced ruleset. Other things that ought to be included in such a ruleset are in my opinion:

* Facing, at least for vehicles. This will allow for more differentiation between units as well as for more tactical options.

* Possibly revised Anti infantry values for tanks. Now, apart from the SU 122, they all have 5-6. Again, this will create some more differentiation between units.

* Revised rules for especially balka and hedgerow terrain. As written they are utterly ridiculous and little fun to play.

* Possibly revised LOS rules regarding hills. Though I finally get them, they feel more intuitive in for example Conflict of Heroes.

When it comes to AT guns, I'm in favor of a few things

1) both the AT and the squad is fatituded when the AT gun fires.

Its not a major thing, but it feels so much more correct, and eliminates some frustration: damned, I fired my squad before I fired my AT gun. Sorry, no AT gun action for you.

2) Towing: we all agree on this one. But, we dont want to transform the AT gun to a mobile tank. So therefor, it should requier that you mount and dismount the gun BEFORE being able to be used. Maybe there should also be limitation to ofroad movement. I definitively feel that roads are to unimportant in ToI. So a rule that trucks & halftrucks only can tow AT guns on raods might be fitting

3) An op-card which state that AT guns may START inside a house, trench, entrenchement, heck even pillbox and bunkers. But that AT guns not starting in these position, cannot enter these fortifications.

4) concealment. As an op-card, both AT guns and maybe stugs and other vehicles may start concealed. In many cases that could make defenders life conciderably easier. And, historicly, it does make a lot of sence also.

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When this is said, I know that Bill J created another scenario for the russians which was playtested and found balanced. If that scenario could be published, that would be great.

I have made some rules for transporting AT guns for a scenario that I am working on, they only apply to trucks at the moment as there are no halftracks in the scenario.

Towed AT gun rules:

(Limbered - is attached to a transport truck) (unlimbered - is seperate from the transport)

- Limber AT gun, as an action fatigue an AT gun in the same hex as a transport truck, use the numbered transport tokens as you would with transporting squads (the transport may then make its own action if it has not spent any movement points this round)

- Unlimber AT gun, as an action fatigue an AT gun that is limbered to a transport, the AT gun is then considered unlimbered. (if the transport spent movement points in the same round before the unlimber action of the ATgun it is also fatigued)

- A limbered AT gun can not be targeted by an enemy unit (only area attcks affect AT guns directly), the attack targets the transport. If the transport is destoryed the AT gun becomes lightly damaged.

- A limbered AT gun that is in the hex of a area attack rolls its own defence dice (for timing issues roll transport defence dice first then AT gun, as if the transport is destroyed the AT gun is lightly damaged before rolling it defence)

- AT guns may start the game limbered.

the transport truck holds all of its other abilities listed in the base game rules.

For the most part, I am OK with most of the TOI rules, and the concept of breaking up the turn into action phases, with an average of 3 actions per phase and then alternating to the other players action phase.

Concerning Transportation : It seems to require more actions than necessary to load and transport, and then unload a squad, requiring 3 "Advance" actions., or at least 2 actions, if the squad is already loaded at beginning of turn., to move and then unload.

Initiative: I have been just rolling a 6 sided dice,at the start of each new turn, and adding the number of Victory Objective Markers controlled to the total,and which ever player has the higher die roll wins the initiative. It does not really seem right that one could "buy" or predetermine initiative the way it is done in TOI, because initative is relative to individual unit commanders, and sometimes just a single soldier, and is unpredictable.

Combined Fire Rule ( rephrased): When a unit makes a concentrated attack, or an opportunity fire attack, the attacking player may declare that other friendly units will support the attack with Combined Fire. A lead unit is activated with one action, which will use the units full AF (attack factor). Then any other friendly units, which have LOS (line of sight) to the enemy unit which is being attacked may join in the attack., adding +1 AF per vehicle or AT gun, or 1/2 AF per squad, which participates with the lead unit.

I have a question about Op fire Combined fire attacks. If one unit in Op fire mode is activated as a lead unit to conduct a CF on an enemy unit that moves at least one hex in LOS of the Op fire unit, may other unfatigued friendly units be added,or is it that only other Op fire units may be added? I interprete it to mean only other Op fire units, since non Op fire units are normally not eligible to shoot at moving enemy units.

Also, if a unit not in Op fire mode, is activated to conduct a normal CF attack, you cannot add units in Op fire mode can you? since the enemy unit being targeted has not moved, therefore by Op fire rule, is not eligible to be fired upon by Op fire units.

VanCamper said:

I like the way ToI dose the initiative, gathering the command points from the differnt command markers to me represents in an abstract way the knowdge, intelligence and resorcese that the commander has avilable to them from holding these parts of the board. Therefor allowing them to use their points (the intelligence) to focus on initiative (studying their oppenents weaknesses and such, therfor giving them an edge and able to act first) or focus on strategy cards (putting the knowlege and resorces into gaining support from HQ). I find that this too adds another level of straegy deciding what is best in your situation.

`VanCamper, Only units in op fire mode may support a combined op fire attack.

It doesn't realy requier an action to unload infanteri from transports, it requiers 2 movement points. A completly different thing. You can still to a fire & movement and assault.

Allthough I might agree that loading, moving and then unloading may be a bit much, but on the other hand I find movement points in ToI be somewhat large.