Dice Speculation

By kpsmith, in Legend of the Five Rings Roleplaying Game Beta

I really wish they had kept d10's... considering I have a few nice sets of 10 sided dice (for reasons lol) At least dice can be cheap.

I'm very wary of blank sided dice, and while only 1 side is truly blank only about half of the sides actually contribute to success. I can easily see rolling 8-10 dice and failing to gain more than 1-2 success... People have said that "If you are rolling a d20, and you must roll over at least a 15 to succeed, then you have 14 blank sides." I must retort that when rolling multiple dice you can combine 2 that are less than 5, and have a 5 or more between them. Add to that the luck of an 8 or 9 and you can pass a roll without such risk of complete failure. I cannot get anything from 2 blank side dice and while the dice do explode, there is still only a 50/50 chance I'll get a success from it.

Putting ease to my mind is the fact that the system (as far as I've read it) sounds almost completely narrative. You shouldn't be rolling for things you are expected to do, so they shouldn't randomly completely fail at a trivial task even though the dice might allow it. I do wonder at the player satisfaction of going through a scene and maybe rolling the dice 1-2 times to complete everything - compared to previous systems with more mechanical engagements resulting in several satisfying dice rolls to both complete tasks that have now become easy (and even venturing raises to maximize on the now-effortless activity) as well as rolling the numerical reward (damage, influence, ect) for their success in addition to the challenging rolls they can sweat over, and spend their void on.

I do not believe I could trust these dice to reliably let me wipe my *** if I had to roll for it. I would invariably fail, resulting in a moistened bit breaking through the toilette dabbing my finger in filth causing me to frustratingly smear it across my bosses desk as I return to work possibly getting me reassigned to a distant office where I'll have to deal with questionable locals.

I'll give it a chance, but I hope to see some element of reliably adding at least 1-2 successes automatically to some rolls to offset the coin-flipping type dice.

4 minutes ago, shosuko said:

I really wish they had kept d10's... considering I have a few nice sets of 10 sided dice (for reasons lol) At least dice can be cheap.

I'm very wary of blank sided dice, and while only 1 side is truly blank only about half of the sides actually contribute to success. I can easily see rolling 8-10 dice and failing to gain more than 1-2 success... People have said that "If you are rolling a d20, and you must roll over at least a 15 to succeed, then you have 14 blank sides." I must retort that when rolling multiple dice you can combine 2 that are less than 5, and have a 5 or more between them. Add to that the luck of an 8 or 9 and you can pass a roll without such risk of complete failure. I cannot get anything from 2 blank side dice and while the dice do explode, there is still only a 50/50 chance I'll get a success from it.

Putting ease to my mind is the fact that the system (as far as I've read it) sounds almost completely narrative. You shouldn't be rolling for things you are expected to do, so they shouldn't randomly completely fail at a trivial task even though the dice might allow it. I do wonder at the player satisfaction of going through a scene and maybe rolling the dice 1-2 times to complete everything - compared to previous systems with more mechanical engagements resulting in several satisfying dice rolls to both complete tasks that have now become easy (and even venturing raises to maximize on the now-effortless activity) as well as rolling the numerical reward (damage, influence, ect) for their success in addition to the challenging rolls they can sweat over, and spend their void on.

I do not believe I could trust these dice to reliably let me wipe my *** if I had to roll for it. I would invariably fail, resulting in a moistened bit breaking through the toilette dabbing my finger in filth causing me to frustratingly smear it across my bosses desk as I return to work possibly getting me reassigned to a distant office where I'll have to deal with questionable locals.

I'll give it a chance, but I hope to see some element of reliably adding at least 1-2 successes automatically to some rolls to offset the coin-flipping type dice.

I think the Skill dice will be what balances out things. If you have a ring of 2 and skill of 2 you still only keep 2 dice. But the Skill die has a much lower chance of Strife while having a slightly higher success chance. It will Definitely make success at low levels more difficult, requiring players to Role Play their characters as best they can to benefit from their Advantages and higher Rings.

4 minutes ago, Richardbuxton said:

I think the Skill dice will be what balances out things. If you have a ring of 2 and skill of 2 you still only keep 2 dice. But the Skill die has a much lower chance of Strife while having a slightly higher success chance. It will Definitely make success at low levels more difficult, requiring players to Role Play their characters as best they can to benefit from their Advantages and higher Rings.

The ring dice have 3 success / 6 sides. The skill dice have 7 success / 12 sides. You're right that the skill dice are better, and I do like how they did the role and keep (keep up to your ring, meaning you don't have to keep 3 dice if you can keep only 2 and still succeed, possibly avoiding strife). Still... that is 5 non-success results. I guess its better than Arkham board game, but it still makes me worried about rolling for things with even a low TN, as any roll can completely fail. I've rolled over 8 dice in Arkham and failed to get 2 successes...

13 minutes ago, shosuko said:

The ring dice have 3 success / 6 sides. The skill dice have 7 success / 12 sides. You're right that the skill dice are better, and I do like how they did the role and keep (keep up to your ring, meaning you don't have to keep 3 dice if you can keep only 2 and still succeed, possibly avoiding strife). Still... that is 5 non-success results. I guess its better than Arkham board game, but it still makes me worried about rolling for things with even a low TN, as any roll can completely fail. I've rolled over 8 dice in Arkham and failed to get 2 successes...

You are discounting the Opportunity sides. The only way you can really fail a roll in the new R&K is to roll only Blank sides (1/6 on Ring, 2/12 on Skill). Opportunity is in many ways a partial success.

Edited by Ultimatecalibur

@Richardbuxton you were so close on so many things! Hope you're liking the system :D

2 minutes ago, llamaman88 said:

@Richardbuxton you were so close on so many things! Hope you're liking the system :D

I'm quite shocked by how close I actually was. I really like the system, it's going to take a lot of adjustment though now that you have to think about The way your character is approaching a situation and the consequences of that

26 minutes ago, Ultimatecalibur said:

You are discounting the Opportunity sides. The only way you can really fail a roll in the new R&K is to roll only Blank sides (1/6 on Ring, 2/12 on Skill). Opportunity is in many ways a partial success.

As I read it, Opportunities are not supposed to change the result of the test. They typically give you side effects such as adjusting the narrative to provide an alternate path, or a to cool off stress. These don't mean you succeed at what you're actually trying to do.

11 minutes ago, shosuko said:

As I read it, Opportunities are not supposed to change the result of the test. They typically give you side effects such as adjusting the narrative to provide an alternate path, or a to cool off stress. These don't mean you succeed at what you're actually trying to do.

But they can be used to gain an advantage even when you fail. Perhaps you don't roll enough Success, well what did you roll then? Probably Opportunity. Or maybe you did roll enough success, but you prefer to not suffer the Strife so instead keep composure and gain some opportunity for you or your allies.

Unless your rolling a very small number of dice the chance of a complete nothing roll is very very low

47 minutes ago, shosuko said:

As I read it, Opportunities are not supposed to change the result of the test. They typically give you side effects such as adjusting the narrative to provide an alternate path, or a to cool off stress. These don't mean you succeed at what you're actually trying to do.

Base Opportunity use allows you to assist another character for 1 opportunity on a failure/2 on a success, Air allows you to check opponents/allies strife and demeanor, Earth allows you to heal other's Strife, Fire allows you to deal strife to others, Water can heal your own Strife and Void can reduce the TN of your next Roll. Those are the base Mechanical Opportunity uses and don't include the double cost alternate uses. These do not include the benefits of opportunity gives various Kata, Kiho, Invocations and Shuji even when they do not succeed. Striking as Water is incredibly effective against hard targets (-2 physical resist per opportunity) and might make a fight easier even if you do not hit.

Triggering/preventing an Outburst also has a lot of potential in both Battle and Social conflicts.

Edited by Ultimatecalibur