9 minutes ago, llamaman88 said:

8 dice sets for the 7 clans

That would be a monumental shift for FFG. All the games they make with custom dice only have one set, playing the game with efficiency usually requires multiple of those sets though.

18 minutes ago, tenchi2a said:

That could be pointing to a Dual stat system: Bad idea

or a hybrid approach with rule to shift it either way.

What I'm imagining is the dice have good and bad symbols on the same dice. The GM calls for a 2 success keep 3 roll, pc rolls their 5 dice and gets:

2 Advantage

1 success 1 Threat

1 Advantage

1 Blank

1 Success.

To succeed they must keep the Threat (bad luck) so they also choose the 2 Advantage (good luck) option to offset it. They could decide to intentionally fail the roll to get 3 Advantage if they think it's going to be more beneficial in the long run.

IDK, I have so many different ideas of how the system could work, it's ridiculous.

My first thought when reading the press release was something cortex like.

Rate your rings at different dice value (one d4, d6, d8, d10, and d12) to represent the strength of your affinity, and then skills/ techs/ other things add additional modifiers or extra dice to roll

Sensei across Rokugan teach samurai-in-training to observe and express these different elements in all that they do. In the Legend of the Five Rings Roleplaying Game , characters are defined by their strength in different elements. In every task they undertake, they must choose an elemental approach, and the suitability of one approach over another can give them the edge they need or diminish their chances of succeeding.

I have been thinking about this part of the announcement. To my interpretation it says that each character has 5 Characteristics, one for each Element Ring. Then it suggests any Ring can be used with any check but the suitability of that Ring will influence the difficulty. I really like the sound of that, the idea that you're attitude and method of approach has an influence over the outcome of a task.

I would assume Skill training is still an influencing factor.

This makes me happy, I can not wait, please launch the PDF FFG!

If you can use Rings for both mental, social and physical applications, it will be much easier to make broad characters.

35 minutes ago, Richardbuxton said:

I have been thinking about this part of the announcement. To my interpretation it says that each character has 5 Characteristics, one for each Element Ring. Then it suggests any Ring can be used with any check but the suitability of that Ring will influence the difficulty. I really like the sound of that, the idea that you're attitude and method of approach has an influence over the outcome of a task.

I would assume Skill training is still an influencing factor.

This makes me happy, I can not wait, please launch the PDF FFG!

That's an interesting idea. What I wonder about though is, if I'm really strong in one element, why wouldn't I choose that for every action?

Just now, Sir Jolt said:

That's an interesting idea. What I wonder about though is, if I'm really strong in one element, why wouldn't I choose that for every action?

Each element could offer its own unique spin or quality to a skill. So while fire may be useful in certain circumstances, water may be better in others.

Alternatively, while all skills could be used with any element, skills would have greater affinity with a specific element.

1 minute ago, Blackbird888 said:

Each element could offer its own unique spin or quality to a skill. So while fire may be useful in certain circumstances, water may be better in others.

Alternatively, while all skills could be used with any element, skills would have greater affinity with a specific element.

That's what I was thinking of at first as well but then that seems to get away from 'every element can be used'. If Fire (for example) gives a benefit to Social skills then that's what everyone is going to use unless their Fire "rating" is completely awful. Or, you end up with a system where there's no real difference between someone who has a rating of 4 with no benefit and a rating of 2 with benefit. For the kind of system described, there needs to be a real and distinct reason to use each element for each skill. But, if using Fire with social gives the same result as Earth with social then why have different elements at all?

6 minutes ago, Sir Jolt said:

That's what I was thinking of at first as well but then that seems to get away from 'every element can be used'. If Fire (for example) gives a benefit to Social skills then that's what everyone is going to use unless their Fire "rating" is completely awful. Or, you end up with a system where there's no real difference between someone who has a rating of 4 with no benefit and a rating of 2 with benefit. For the kind of system described, there needs to be a real and distinct reason to use each element for each skill. But, if using Fire with social gives the same result as Earth with social then why have different elements at all?

That's why I think, if they do go this route, each element will give an attribute to whatever skill is being used, and this could be good or bad. So using fire with social skills will make the user seem passionate and driven, which would be useful when trying to rally troops into battle, but may be detrimental while in court, where poise and grace are expected.

Alternatively, characters may be attuned to certain elements and weak in others. If a character is strong with fire but weak with earth, and a situation calls for an earth skill, then that character will be severely disadvantaged.

On rings and skills I could see something like this:

What ever skill that is used for courtiers you could...

Make an impassioned speech or fiery oratory using the fire ring.

Gather court rumors using the air ring.

Observe someone with and make a deduction with the water ring.

To resist someone influencing you with the earth ring.

The void ring would encompass all of the above.

This is just a guess and I might of used the wrong ring combinations in my example, but I believe this is what they meant.

Which would be swell. It would encourage characters to overlap their skills, but because of having different high Rings, they still would participate in the encounters in different ways. Your bushi having high Water could help you with spot-on observations, for a low price of few points into Courtier skill. Not having to split XP between attributes "for combat only" and "for social only" would make "dipping" into out-of-focus skills much much much more attractive.

I'll use Genesys terminology here in place of the correct L5R wording but this is what I'm imagining:

Every check is a skill check, ie there's a skill for everything and when you want to do something you choose the appropriate skill.

Each skill has an natural affinity to one Ring, Melee to Fire, Archery to Air, Stealth to Void, Resilience to Earth, Perception to Water etc

If a character wants to use a different Ring then the difficulty of the check is Increased (Or Upgraded) and the GM may choose to add Setback as well due to the approach being taken.

So players then have to make decisions about the increased risk against the increase in chance of success.

Then to through a final spanner in the works the issue of Honour should be paramount. If actions taken in the wrong way would cause a loss of honour then that should be part of the process of deciding.

I wonder if Honour will be an important element on the dice?

Should any skills map to Void, though?

Depends on if they keep the elements as they are now. If they do, then probably not. But if void becomes a measured, enlightened approach, while earth is a resisting and stubborn approach, air is a quick and graceful approach, fire is a fierce and impassioned approach and water is a fluid and creative approach for example, then sure skills should be tied to it.

11 minutes ago, llamaman88 said:

Depends on if they keep the elements as they are now. If they do, then probably not. But if void becomes a measured, enlightened approach, while earth is a resisting and stubborn approach, air is a quick and graceful approach, fire is a fierce and impassioned approach and water is a fluid and creative approach for example, then sure skills should be tied to it.

This was exactly my thought. They list Void as an element then suggest every check is connected to an element so it's reasonable to think they have changed that aspect of previous editions

idk, I'm not sold on this "use any ring" idea unless its clearly defined by each skill. The problem with that is that each skill then becomes its own system, and not every skill could fit so easily into 4-5 feats. We also lose track of how a character is physically, and mentally.

Maybe Katana has a disarm for air, heavy damage with fire, full defense on earth, and riposte using water. Rather than using raises for maneuvers, it could possibly use a weaker trait if a character is less balanced. A character could pick a weapon based partially on which ring it uses for which feats. This gets a bit tougher as you try to define a skill like Courtier, or Orator which are much more ambiguous.

I would be perfectly happy with ditching tracking the physical/mental attribute split and instead focusing on Rings as attributes. I find the classic setup of phys/mental breakup very boring.

49 minutes ago, shosuko said:

idk, I'm not sold on this "use any ring" idea unless its clearly defined by each skill. The problem with that is that each skill then becomes its own system, and not every skill could fit so easily into 4-5 feats. We also lose track of how a character is physically, and mentally.

Maybe Katana has a disarm for air, heavy damage with fire, full defense on earth, and riposte using water. Rather than using raises for maneuvers, it could possibly use a weaker trait if a character is less balanced. A character could pick a weapon based partially on which ring it uses for which feats. This gets a bit tougher as you try to define a skill like Courtier, or Orator which are much more ambiguous.

I definitely agree, it could get very complex if not done properly.

One way to have a feeling of difference without literally a different skill description for each ring is to implement a dice mechanic. If there's a Ring symbol on the dice then it allows you to add to the results based on the Ring used for the check. In this way there can be five lists of options, one for each Ring, that are skill generic. Perhaps some of the options have additional costs such as Strain for a greater effect, or simply cost more Rings to activate.

In Genesys every option cost the same Advantage for everyone, this Ring system would allow variable costs depending on the situation the character is in.

Perhaps a Fire based attack has a better chance of Critical, but it's more expensive to increase your defence. Earth may find it easier to increase your defence but Criticals are harder to do.

It gets complex, so I hope there's a great structure to whatever they have chosen. Expect rules to change a bit throughout the beta as they test different options too. They may throw three different ways of building a character at us then blend them for the final release

I'm a little worried about the use of the FF dice mechanic. I love the narrative dice mechanic in certain circumstances, specifically: games like Star Wars that are enhanced by random events and happenchance, and one-offs

My reasoning for this is that games like Star Wars benefit from the sort of hijinks that overly random mechanics like this can produce, such as Han Solo hacking a blast door to open only to cause another even thicker blast door to close. And one-offs because I find that over time the interesting outcomes of the dice tend to be become a burden as people (in my experience) get weary of too much randomness and trying to constantly invent new occurrences becomes a chore and to not invent new ones creates repetitiveness. It almost gets to the point that due to the fear of failing (or succeeding but also somehow failing), players tend to be apprehensive about even rolling dice (something that isn't an issue in one-offs where people tend to care less and looking like idiots).

For me Legend of the Five rings is a very strict, ordered and disciplined setting and I fear that the FF dice mechanic, which is aggressively random, could be thematically antagonistic to the setting (Legend of the Five Rings as a setting isn't favourable to people looking like the aforementioned idiots). This does not mean I think a 'weird dice mechanic' is necessarily wrong, just that I feel to import the same mechanic that is used in say: Star Wars, would be inappropriate, and one more thematically tailored would be better.

Overall though I'm excited, so don't get me wrong, FF's production quality is amazing and I'm very much looking forward to the product due to it being set in the best time period of the game.

Well.

Custom dice.

*leaves boat*

5 minutes ago, Mirumoto Saito said:

Well.

Custom dice.

*leaves boat*

Bye, Felicia

Don't worry. I'll be on the docks throwing stuff.

Its both R&K and a new custom dice system.

2 minutes ago, Ultimatecalibur said:

Its both R&K and a new custom dice system.

Yep. Gives me hope to convert the custom dice thing away with relative ease.

One thing must be said: I like what I see in the Character Sheet.

14 minutes ago, Mirumoto Saito said:

Yep. Gives me hope to convert the custom dice thing away with relative ease.

One thing must be said: I like what I see in the Character Sheet.

Either:

remove Strife/Opportunity

or

Roll three dice instead of one for each rank of ring(d6) or skill(d12). Keep one positive dice up to ring rating, must keep one strife dice For each positive dice kept.

Honestly their system adds a new depth to the game with minimal complexity in the dice themselves. The complex and challenging element of this system is going to be the choice between rings for every check and not the dice themselves

Oh well. At least it's just d6s and d12s. I was worried we'd have customs of all the types. I still wish they'd kept d10s with actual numbers, I have those. With l5r clan symbols for the zero. Take some time to wrap my head around the system but it could have been worse.