Considering the questions in the google form I would agree a significant goal of this beta is the character systems. Whatever dice mechanics we get will probably not change.

6 hours ago, Blackbird888 said:

The trick with video game betas is that they usually aren't testing the base game, but the servers . This is especially true for multiplayer games (which, surprise, are pretty much the only ones that get betas).

There are wounds, strain, and critical injuries.

You wound threshold is like your physical stamina; how much punishment a character's body can withstand before they break. Exceeding wound threshold incapacitates a character and inflicts 1 critical injury.

Critical injuries can stack, with every one you have increasing the severity of the next. If you continue to take wounds after being incapacitated, you take more and more injuries until death. You can also take a critical injury from a weapon or by falling and so on.

Your strain threshold is like your mental stamina. In Star Wars, strain is the non-lethal stunning damage. Strain is easy to take (threat on a dice roll can inflict strain) but just as easy to recover (advantage on a dice roll can be spent to recover it). Exceeding your threshold incapacitates you, but you don't take any critical injuries. Strain is also a resource, so you can voluntarily suffer strain to get extra maneuvers in a round, or to trigger an ability, among other things.

RE: Social -- Star Wars does have a pretty good handle on social encounters, I think. The dice are pretty well adapted for it, and I can think of at least three Star Wars sourcebooks where they discussed using the rules. At the least, there are individuals within FFG that are aware of social stuff, and are willing to develop it.

Tru dat. It's very difficult to properly prepare servers for a large scale multiplayer game, and even big companies can fail to get adequate testing even in open free betas.

Thanks for explaining the wounds system. I like how that sounds so far. I guess the big issue is - how quickly can a person die in that system? Its true that one of the biggest "features" of L5R is that it can be deadly, and I'd love to see some way to develop the mono no aware mechanic into the game. Do characters die easily in SW or is there a lot of give before they give up the ghost?

I'm still wary of blank sides on dice, and no numerical gradient. Just pass fail. I wonder how raises could be included in this system... I really like the L5R and FATE mechanics that allow the players to gamble for greater effect, or add some narrative to justify an advantage.

I'm excited to see what we get!

18 minutes ago, shosuko said:

I'm still wary of blank sides on dice, and no numerical gradient. Just pass fail.

For this it requires a mind shift. Rolling a blank side on a negative die means that the particular challenge was less difficult for some reason this time. Rolling blank on a positive die represents your skill or natural ability not being as significant in this situation. There are many other ways to explain it too.

As for no gradient that's not really true. When you succeed you count how much you succeed by to gage your level of success. When you fail the amount you fail by gives an indication of just how badly you fail.

19 minutes ago, shosuko said:

guess the big issue is - how quickly can a person die in that system? Its true that one of the biggest "features" of L5R is that it can be deadly, and I'd love to see some way to develop the mono no aware mechanic into the game. Do characters die easily in SW or is there a lot of give before they give up the ghost?

Star Wars is a different beast to L5R. For one the meta is guns dominate, all the best most powerful and most destructive weapons are Ranged. In Star Wars it's very easy to get knocked out, but with a little rest you can be up and fighting. The Critical Injury system is how you die, and death is a little further off. Usually characters pick up some nasty effects like maimed limbs or reduced characteristics before death calls.

The nice thing in Star Wars is that the GM has a very granular control over how quickly a group die. With a single star fighter I can kill basically any pc group with almost impunity. But in a heavy fight on the ground I can control how hard they get hit, I can throw a few Critical hits at them without fear of accidental death... but if the death of a character fits the story then death is just there ready and waiting.

Wheather FFG follows a similar philosophy here will be seen with time obviously.

22 minutes ago, Richardbuxton said:

For this it requires a mind shift. Rolling a blank side on a negative die means that the particular challenge was less difficult for some reason this time. Rolling blank on a positive die represents your skill or natural ability not being as significant in this situation. There are many other ways to explain it too.

As for no gradient that's not really true. When you succeed you count how much you succeed by to gage your level of success. When you fail the amount you fail by gives an indication of just how badly you fail.

Its not about conceiving how a die roll can be interpreted, it is more the very negative feeling I've had in every game I've played with blank sided dice, where I can roll many dice and still completely fail because blank sides are a complete non-result. Super Dungeon Explorer and Arkham Board Game both used blank dice, and I've rolled a handful of dice several times and utterly fail a check because of all the blank sides. The negative feelings of completely failing after dumping everything I could to roll extra dice even! lead me to completely drop these games. Compare this to R&K where not only are there no zeros on dice, but you are already weighted to keep the best. With no zeroes, even the small numbers can help you beat a TN if one of the dice explodes. These were pretty epic times at the table! And the potential to always roll slightly better than 5x your keep dice afforded players the ambition to throw down a raise for greater effect. It was also very clear when you needed to spend a void point to get that extra bonus. If there is a "spend a void point to roll an extra dice" with this, and that die comes up blank, I'm going to feel like garbage. I got nothing for my void point, and that sucks. With a numerical gradient you can "almost" succeed, and know you were close at least! A 0 is a zero, it's NOTHING.

Only 1 blank side for most dice? idk... I'm wary... Blanks feel bad, like really really BAD.

Again, RNK can have bad rolls too. Last game we had our player fail a TN 12 roll by rolling 7 (!) while keeping 3 dice and rolling 6.

I would suggest finding a Star Wars Dice Roller online and rolling some dice pools to get a feel. Most of them will probably also instantly translate the results into "X Success, X Failure, X Threat Advantage etc" text format so you dont have to decipher them by hand.

Because there's blanks on the negative dice, and the very small number of blanks, it's not quite as bad as some other games.

23 minutes ago, WHW said:

Again, RNK can have bad rolls too. Last game we had our player fail a TN 12 roll by rolling 7 (!) while keeping 3 dice and rolling 6.

I would suggest finding a Star Wars Dice Roller online and rolling some dice pools to get a feel. Most of them will probably also instantly translate the results into "X Success, X Failure, X Threat Advantage etc" text format so you dont have to decipher them by hand.

Of course failing rolls happen - but when you roll 10 dice, and only need 3 success, and get 8 blanks it feels much worse than rolling and just getting low numbers. Even low numbers can amount to something, a blank is worthless.

Ever since L5r went to FFG I assumed the rpg would shift to a different dice mechanic, and I always said that if it did, it would be great to have the elemental rings as the symbols. As a base assumption of that, I then liked the idea of element based challenges, where either the player is choosing a type of elemental approach or the situation dictates a kind of elemental approach.

The basic premise would be then to roll as many of a specific ring with perhaps Void being useable for any element. This might then be modified with abilities, powers, etc. Some might give an extra ring symbol if one is rolled, or there might be rules for splitting your approach between 2 or more rings, or maybe even critical rules centered around rolling all 5 rings.

Just a rough idea but one I wouldn't be terribly upset with. As is if it's even remotely dealing with elemental dice/symbols I'll be intrigued.

Fortunes and Winds, guys. Fortunes and Winds.

R&K is almost right out because I don't think FFG bought the R&K rights when they bought the L5R IP. Did they? I might be wrong on that.

I want to relate an experience about linking your dice experience to the game itself. Once upon a time, it was a lazy Saturday and it turned out it was also Free RPG Day. On a whim I scooted down to the ol' Gamin' shop where people were demoing games. A larger but still kindly gentleman who very poignantly did NOT smell of gamer funk asked me if I wanted to try his game, which had a very tempting Star Wars logo on it.

"Can I be a Twi-lek?"

"Yeah, sure you ca-"

"I'm in."

This guy, whose name I have completely forgotten, led me through character creation which was pretty quick for Edge of the Empire and by the time I was done some other people had shown up and we were ready to get underway. But of course, first we had to learn the dice mechanic. Cue a box of multi colored dice in fairly original Trilogy reminiscent tones. These dice were different, though. While they had familiar shapes to an experienced gamer (which would have been new and different to a person just starting in role playing), they were covered in weird symbols that didn't correlate to Roman characters. In short, they looked like someone had smuggled them out of a Tatooine gambling house. When the system was explained, it actually seemed pretty easy to grasp and as a group we didn't even learn the real terms for the symbols. Throughout the game we counted up Explosions, bad guy triangles, and winged light-sabers. It was super fun and I was enthralled the whole time. Of course, it wasn't like being a super rich Twi-lek mafia scumbag wasn't helping though.

Anyway, my point is this. The Narrative Dice design, as applied to a Star Wars game, was infinitely appropriate because it took something different and a little bit alien and applied it to an alien world. In Star Wars, while a lot of people speak understandable Galactic Basic, the text is all different and weird and of course aliens speak a myriad of other languages that have to be subtitled. So alien dice are right at home and even enhance the experience of playing Star Wars. also, having a different metric whereby you measure success is indicative of an alien way of considering measurement, which is, once again, very Star Wars.

So I think that the Narrative System worked quite well for Star Wars.

I don't know how well it will work for other genres, like steampunk, or medieval fantasy because there are different paradigms there that I think the same mechanics may have difficulty meshing with. Genesys is in a difficult position trying to be everything for everyone. We've seen from even past editions of L5R that such a feat is Herculean indeed.

Anyway, it is my hope like some others have stated, that FFG L5R has a system that will mesh well with the themes of its world. Something that will make it deadly, but fantastic, and prone to a little bit of wispy ennui. And also Shuigenja explosions.

Fortunes and Winds, guys. Fortunes. And. Winds.

On 9/28/2017 at 6:41 AM, daruthin said:

I really pray to have something similar to the R&K, and I pray even more for the genesys system to be forgotten.

If this new game have the genesys system it's without me. Seriously, this system is a cancer. It take a TED conference to explain only how to launch the dices and read them.

I played a star wars campaign with 5 of my friends, huge star wars fans, the kind that pay 300$ for a simple lightsaber lamp. We played 3 seances and 4 of them cancelled their participation to this campaign because of the system.

A "cancer"? That's more than a little extreme. The system is very good, it isn't difficult and emulates Star Wars very well. If it were "cancer" I highly doubt FFG would be launching another line based on it. You may not understand it or enjoy it, but your negative view of it does not make it, or anything attached to your opinion, "cancer".

52 minutes ago, Aedo said:

R&K is almost right out because I don't think FFG bought the R&K rights when they bought the L5R IP. Did they? I might be wrong on that.

You can't copyright game mechanics, only the text that contains them. Anyone can use the R&K die mechanic.

9 hours ago, shosuko said:

Of course failing rolls happen - but when you roll 10 dice, and only need 3 success, and get 8 blanks it feels much worse than rolling and just getting low numbers. Even low numbers can amount to something, a blank is worthless.

I'm bad at probabilities. Anyone else out there want to figure out the odds of rolling 8 blanks on 10 FFG green dice? How about yellow dice? Eight blanks on eight dice is pretty easy (1 in 16,777,216 for green dice, 1 in 429,981,696 for yellow), but man, those two extras are throwin' me.

It's a little harder to make this point using R&K dice, so I'm gonna use d20 as my example. I hope y'all can forgive me. Let's say I have +3 to my attack roll, and I need a 15 or better to hit. In essence, that means I'm rolling a d20 with 11 blank sides. 1-11 mean absolutely nothing, so they might as well be blank. 12-19 have a single little *POW* symbol on them, because I succeeded. 20 is a Triumph, but I can only spend it on a crit, and that only does extra damage, it doesn't give me any neat effects.

R+K, with multiple dice, makes that more complicated, but it essentially comes out the same. If you're successful, great, if you're not, all of your dice might as well be blank. And don't give me, "But you can be close, and that's cool!" If I roll three successes in Star Wars, but also three Failures, that's the same thing. I was hella close, and didn't make it. What's more, if my odds are about even, I will probably generate Advantage. If I failed, it's usually because my good dice didn't give me successes, and/or my bad dice gave me failures. That means my good dice probably gave me Advantage and my bad dice probably didn't give me Threat. Dice pools also tend to increase a bit faster than difficulties, so that effect only becomes more pronounced. If you're rolling four yellow dice and only two purple, you can still fail, but I guarantee you'll be sitting on a fat pile of Advantage. I don't care what day of the week it is, I will always prefer that to rolling 19 on a TN 20 Kenjustsu check.

1 hour ago, The Grand Falloon said:

You can't copyright game mechanics, only the text that contains them. Anyone can use the R&K die mechanic.

I feel like the entire concept behind the Open Gaming License belies that idea, but I would have to put more research into it before I could take a hard stance.

So.... I could see them using the Genysys Dice or similar enough dice.

What I hope for though:

- Combat is quick and deadly. L5R is unique in that not everyone in the group may/should have a combat role (Courtiers, most Priests). So it should be something handled in 1-2 rounds for the bushi. (Social Combat? for the courtier)

- Shugenja need to be reworked.

- Talking to the kami should be free, getting them to do something for you should be handled either RP or a skill roll.

- Actual spells, I like how Force and Destiny handled force powers.

- However, design wise I think each "class" should be able to handle any scene via putting XP into skills. (Even the kami, a Prayer or theology skill should allow even a bushi to appease the kami if need be), but each should have bonuses to their domain so a Shugenja should not usually outshine a Courtier in a social situation (just like a Shugenja should not do more damage than a bushi ).

54 minutes ago, Aedo said:

I feel like the entire concept behind the Open Gaming License belies that idea, but I would have to put more research into it before I could take a hard stance.

I'll corroborate. Only setting and game specific elements are covered under intellectual copyright. There are several prominent cases in RPG and gaming history that have outlined those aspects. And panels devoted to explaining it at GenCon every year for hopeful game designers. Theorectically anyone could use roll & keep, but only the rights holder can use it with L5R. The name, the symbols, the setting, the personalities, the story, etc. are all a part of that intellectual property (including school names, technique names, spell names, etc), mechanics are not.

35 minutes ago, bloodycelt said:

Shugenja need to be reworked.

- Talking to the kami should be free, getting them to do something for you should be handled either RP or a skill roll.

- Actual spells, I like how Force and Destiny handled force powers.

I agree. If there's one thing I really liked about Force and Destiny it's how they handled Force Powers. Now the Force Rating/Die system is an entirely different matter, but on a base character level I like the idea of how Force Powers gave immediate powers that were beyond human ability, but gave a very real reason as to why the lightsaber was more often used than not.

Firstly most force powers couldn't take the place of base weaponry. Secondly if they could they were a heavy investment. I like that. You can go for the more sensory, subtle, and utility powers for cheaper, or only dabble in those powers, or you had to invest heavily to be a truly awe-inspiring Force master. You can have your battle shugenja, but acquiring those powers/spells will require a great deal of resources. Resources other, non-shugenja characters, put into a bunch of other things. Definitely, in my opinion, would go a long way to balancing out the role of the shugenja/priest with other Rokugani archetypes.

It also shows those shugenja who delve most deeply into elemental mysteries are the most powerful but are increasingly detached from worldly concerns (i.e. skills, abilities, etc.). And why a shugenja who can also be a daimyo is an extreme rarity and why they are leaned on as spiritual advisors because to be that you need to devote a great amount of time and energy into that endeavor.

2 hours ago, The Grand Falloon said:

I'm bad at probabilities. Anyone else out there want to figure out the odds of rolling 8 blanks on 10 FFG green dice? How about yellow dice? Eight blanks on eight dice is pretty easy (1 in 16,777,216 for green dice, 1 in 429,981,696 for yellow), but man, those two extras are throwin' me.

It's a little harder to make this point using R&K dice, so I'm gonna use d20 as my example. I hope y'all can forgive me. Let's say I have +3 to my attack roll, and I need a 15 or better to hit. In essence, that means I'm rolling a d20 with 11 blank sides. 1-11 mean absolutely nothing, so they might as well be blank. 12-19 have a single little *POW* symbol on them, because I succeeded. 20 is a Triumph, but I can only spend it on a crit, and that only does extra damage, it doesn't give me any neat effects.

R+K, with multiple dice, makes that more complicated, but it essentially comes out the same. If you're successful, great, if you're not, all of your dice might as well be blank. And don't give me, "But you can be close, and that's cool!" If I roll three successes in Star Wars, but also three Failures, that's the same thing. I was hella close, and didn't make it. What's more, if my odds are about even, I will probably generate Advantage. If I failed, it's usually because my good dice didn't give me successes, and/or my bad dice gave me failures. That means my good dice probably gave me Advantage and my bad dice probably didn't give me Threat. Dice pools also tend to increase a bit faster than difficulties, so that effect only becomes more pronounced. If you're rolling four yellow dice and only two purple, you can still fail, but I guarantee you'll be sitting on a fat pile of Advantage. I don't care what day of the week it is, I will always prefer that to rolling 19 on a TN 20 Kenjustsu check.

My main point is about player experience, not the actual mechanics of it. As I've said many times - blank sides FEEL bad. Very bad. So much that I stopped playing otherwise fun games because blank sided dice are simply problematic.

Your comparison to D20 doesn't address the actual issue with blank sided dice. You can't say every side of a die is blank if the total adds to less than the TN required because there is a lot more going on then just that. If I roll 5 dice and keep 2 on a TN of 10 I could roll a 9 and 4 1's and those 1's wouldn't be blank. If I rolled on a TN of 20 and I got 1 exploded 10, and rolled a 9 on top of that, and the other 4 dice were 1's none of them would be blank.

Using symbols decreases the results to basically be a number of 0's and 1's. The disparity between 0 and 1, if those are the only options, is much greater than the disparity between 1 and 10. The numerical gradient helps a story teller set a more precise target number for any task. Do you want a 40% chance of success? 60%? A D20 essentially gives you percentage rolls by the 5% mark. MERPS gives you an actual percentage roll. R&K gives you something similar to a percentage roll with extra effects for dropped and exploded dice. Not only am I wary of negative experiences from rolling a lot of blanks, I'm also concerned with my ability to reliably set challenges. Basic systems like FATE, and like what Gensys sounds like to me, don't have much middle ground to roll for. You are either pretty much destined to succeed, or destined to fail, or you're flipping a flippin coin on it.

Further, it doesn't promote gambling or driving narrative for higher effects to allow players to be risk takers and story tellers the way FATE and R&K do. If the die rolls an advantage after the fact you can come back and say "Hey, something cool happens." This doesn't let a player venture to take risks, but simply rewards luck. I would rather have a more invested scene thinking about how they can gain an advantage for a tough roll first, than come back after and say "hey, that tough roll failed, luck gave you an advantage, we'll say his armor fell off."

You reliably set challenges by picking a number between 1 and 5 and handling the player appropriate number of difficulty dice. Good luck with that in RNK.

Remember that blank sides in Arkham are like, 4/6 of the results (you succeed on a 5 and 6, right?). The game was balanced for that. It's a horror board game, players are supposed to be helpless unless they invest really heavy resources into the challenge. Again, I suggest checking out some dicepools and seeing for yourself how often you get blank results. Arkham was designed to give you a lot of blanks.

R&K is incredibly swingy and I hate exploding dice mechanic, btw.

I think you need to experience the FFG dice system to really understand its nuances. Setting difficulty is really easy, you have a lot of granular control with the different types of negative dice. And PC's can still have a go at something that seems incredibly hard because any check has at least some chance of success.

In a Numerical system it's possible for a check to simply be impossible to make, a 22 when you haven't got +2 to the roll for example. The FFG systems though it's different, a character may be rolling 2 positive dice but 5 negative yet they still have a chance to succeed.

But againits a system you can't analyse on paper, it needs to be experienced, and the experience gets better and better as the GM unlearns all the other systems they have played.

22 minutes ago, Richardbuxton said:

I think you need to experience the FFG dice system to really understand its nuances. Setting difficulty is really easy, you have a lot of granular control with the different types of negative dice. And PC's can still have a go at something that seems incredibly hard because any check has at least some chance of success.

In a Numerical system it's possible for a check to simply be impossible to make, a 22 when you haven't got +2 to the roll for example. The FFG systems though it's different, a character may be rolling 2 positive dice but 5 negative yet they still have a chance to succeed.

But againits a system you can't analyse on paper, it needs to be experienced, and the experience gets better and better as the GM unlearns all the other systems they have played.

I really get tried of hearing this. Why do FFG dice system lovers always assume that if you don't like the system you never played it. I myself have played through 3 different campaigns of FFGSW and have to say I hated every minute of it both as a GM and a player. I'm not going to explain why I dislike the system I've done that to many times before. I am a firm believer in the system needs to be made for the setting and converting a setting never works. The truth is though its a flawed system R&K is L5R it was made for it, and FFG dice system was made for Star Wars. I will buy a 5th ed R&K sytem that after a good long beta fixes the issues with 4th, but if they decide to switch to FFG dice system they have lost my business. And just to clarify this is not some type of threat because I know FFG doesn't care. Its Just my decision not to support a product I dislike.

That as they say is that because I will never agree with you and you will never agree with me so why keep this going. There are not facts to this argument, it is all just our opinions.

46 minutes ago, Richardbuxton said:

I think you need to experience the FFG dice system to really understand its nuances. Setting difficulty is really easy, you have a lot of granular control with the different types of negative dice. And PC's can still have a go at something that seems incredibly hard because any check has at least some chance of success.

In a Numerical system it's possible for a check to simply be impossible to make, a 22 when you haven't got +2 to the roll for example. The FFG systems though it's different, a character may be rolling 2 positive dice but 5 negative yet they still have a chance to succeed.

But againits a system you can't analyse on paper, it needs to be experienced, and the experience gets better and better as the GM unlearns all the other systems they have played.

Yeah I'll definitely be playing it. I'm hopeful for the new system, and as some have said - there is only 1 blank on most dice. Not likely to have an entire roll blanked out. I'm still wary of blank sides on dice because a null result feels bad, and also a lack of gradient measuring can make things too fixed for success or failure. In FATE the biggest problem was that the numbers were small. You would always roll 4 dice with 2 sides -1, 2 sides 0, 2 sides +1. This meant you basically needed an advantage in every roll! If you were even just -1 on a skill check you had a high chance of failure, and +1 was too easy. The binary measure of success by dice makes me wonder if this system is similar, focusing less on risky rolls and more on the luck of the advantage, and the indirect punishment of the anti-advantage results.

Anyway - I'm just voicing my thoughts here. I'm not saying the system is bad, I'm just skeptical. I'm planning to re-do character creation with the new L5R beta for the game I'm starting. We'll see how it goes! I'm definitely in for the ride, at least for now.

33 minutes ago, tenchi2a said:

I really get tried of hearing this. Why do FFG dice system lovers always assume that if you don't like the system you never played it. I myself have played through 3 different campaigns of FFGSW and have to say I hated every minute of it both as a GM and a player. I'm not going to explain why I dislike the system I've done that to many times before. I am a firm believer in the system needs to be made for the setting and converting a setting never works. The truth is though its a flawed system R&K is L5R it was made for it, and FFG dice system was made for Star Wars. I will buy a 5th ed R&K sytem that after a good long beta fixes the issues with 4th, but if they decide to switch to FFG dice system they have lost my business. And just to clarify this is not some type of threat because I know FFG doesn't care. Its Just my decision not to support a product I dislike.

That as they say is that because I will never agree with you and you will never agree with me so why keep this going. There are not facts to this argument, it is all just our opinions.

Feeling like he was talking to the person who sounds like they haven't actually played Star Wars who replied after you.

You don't have to like the Star Wars system. But seriously there's not going to be an R&K 5e. And why would we want to buy the same darn books a 5th time when the world's been reset anyway? 4e has more storyline than FFG can possibly have for the next... 20 years. Only reason to reset the timeline is because they're making L5R their own, and with that they have to walk this thin line of "familiar but new". I feel like they landed it with their LCG, and am personally excited for whatever this new RP system is. I expect it to be familiar (see 5 rings, skills, advantages, disadvantages and techniques) but new (see that stuff about dice and giri)

3 minutes ago, llamaman88 said:

Feeling like he was talking to the person who sounds like they haven't actually played Star Wars who replied after you.

It not just this one post. I see this as a defense all the time. "you don't like it, must have never played"

3 minutes ago, llamaman88 said:

You don't have to like the Star Wars system. But seriously there's not going to be an R&K 5e. And why would we want to buy the same darn books a 5th time when the world's been reset anyway? 4e has more storyline than FFG can possibly have for the next... 20 years. Only reason to reset the timeline is because they're making L5R their own , and with that they have to walk this thin line of "familiar but new". I feel like they landed it with their LCG, and am personally excited for whatever this new RP system is. I expect it to be familiar (see 5 rings, skills, advantages, disadvantages and techniques) but new (see that stuff about dice and giri)

First, you don't want to open this can of worms ( a lot of the same story with gender swaps, the idea that tactics are dishonorable, etc.)

The only reason I'm still here is to give it a chance. If its a new system with no specialty dice then I'll give it a chance. If its just the Star Wars system reskin then its not worth my time.

You both raise really great points. When FFG released WFRP 3e they drove a huge divide between fans of the franchise, people either loved the dice or hated them with hardly any in the middle ground. Players either couldn't go back to 1e/2e or sold their 3e core set with disgust. Exactly the same thing happened with Star Wars, love or hate.

I think it happens with most systems when there's a new edition, just in the case of FFG it's always been the dice that's the dividing factor with the rest of the system changes being irrelevant. I know it fuels little disagreements but I think it's great FFG does this, it brings variety to the RPG landscape. Personally I can't go back to numerical systems*, to me they are archaic, so FFG is providing something I can't get easily elsewhere.

In this case, with 4 previous editions of the game I can not see FFG trying to use traditional R&K directly. Perhaps they will come up with a hybrid approach, R&K with various symbols on the dice instead of numbers. They may keep the 3 axis (Success/Advantage/Triumph) system but integrating the keep system which explains their bit in the article about player choices

*Cubical 7 now holds the license for WFRP. They have made it clear their 2 systems, AoS and Old World, will be number based not symbols. So I'll buy the core books, probably as PDF, I'll read them and I'll feel exactly the same as you do with this FFG L5R. Then I'll go and convert Genesys to my own version of WFRP 3.5

15 minutes ago, llamaman88 said:

But seriously there's not going to be an R&K 5e.

The jury is still out, buddy.

I could say that the new system is based on how high you can throw cats and I would have the same evidence to say that as you have to say that the next edition of L5R will not be based on R&K.

I actually think that there is more evidence of that than for it to be a variation of Genesys, given that I can't see why they would lose the opportunity to promote their in-house system with the L5R RPG announcement, unless they aren't related.

4 minutes ago, Richardbuxton said:

You both raise really great points. When FFG released WFRP 3e they drove a huge divide between fans of the franchise, people either loved the dice or hated them with hardly any in the middle ground. Players either couldn't go back to 1e/2e or sold their 3e core set with disgust. Exactly the same thing happened with Star Wars, love or hate.

I think it happens with most systems when there's a new edition, just in the case of FFG it's always been the dice that's the dividing factor with the rest of the system changes being irrelevant. I know it fuels little disagreements but I think it's great FFG does this, it brings variety to the RPG landscape. Personally I can't go back to numerical systems*, to me they are archaic, so FFG is providing something I can't get easily elsewhere.

In this case, with 4 previous editions of the game I can not see FFG trying to use traditional R&K directly. Perhaps they will come up with a hybrid approach, R&K with various symbols on the dice instead of numbers. They may keep the 3 axis (Success/Advantage/Triumph) system but integrating the keep system which explains their bit in the article about player choices

*Cubical 7 now holds the license for WFRP. They have made it clear their 2 systems, AoS and Old World, will be number based not symbols. So I'll buy the core books, probably as PDF, I'll read them and I'll feel exactly the same as you do with this FFG L5R. Then I'll go and convert Genesys to my own version of WFRP 3.5

That could be pointing to a Dual stat system: Bad idea

or a hybrid approach with rule to shift it either way.

I guess we'll know for sure in a few days. But I mean... go look at the LCG. I'd say evidence points to them honoring the old, but making it new. And you're high if you think they're not going to try and sell us dice. Can't you imagine it?! 8 dice sets for the 7 clans and the imperial families with fancy pants kanji instead of star bursts and triangles. Yea, and dice bags with the new mons on them. Special edition core books with your clan dice. >.> a boxed game with a unique set. Dice everywhere! an app that changes the dice to the faction you like most.