18 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Elias, Mychal’el had already ruled it a Daunting (PPPP) Mechanics check, not an Impossible one. So it doesn’t require a destiny point. And given that S3 barely missed the roll (three successses canceled by three failures), it’s not as hard as you claim, particularly for a droid specifically designed forechanical work on starships. Not only that, but given the chances of Threat on the rolls, there are always the possibility of negative or positive consequences on top of success or failure. The droid’s first roll is a perfect example of that (failure with advantage).

And yes, the Full Throttle talents are increasing the actual speed. That’s the whole point of the talents: to push the vehicle’s speed past its normal top speed. And this is done within a single action or maneuver. It does not require spending additional rolls, additional actions or addymaneuvers. It is done as a single action or maneuver.

And no, not after this session is over. Immediately .

Tough luck. After the session. Players do not dictate terms to GMs.

5 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

Tough luck. After the session

No. Now. I do not accept your rulings. And would rather the game end immediately, until I have found a proper replacement and more players than be subject to these BS rulings that are in direct violation of RAW and which rob me of player agency over what I do.

Just now, Tramp Graphics said:

No. Now. I do not accept your rulings. The game is over until I have found a proper replacement and more players.

You are free to quit the campaign, that is your recourse. But don't expect to find a new GM or more players after you spent 8 weeks arguing instead of taking your turn and this thread is on the board for everyone to read it for themselves.

1 minute ago, EliasWindrider said:

You are free to quit the campaign, that is your recourse. But don't expect to find a new GM or more players after you spent 8 weeks arguing instead of taking your turn and this thread is on the board for everyone to read it for themselves.

If you hadn’t been screwing me over and going against the RAW, I wouldn’t be arguing. I didn’t have this problem with @killerbeardhawk , nor with @awayputurwpn . You came in and, right away, started from an adversarial position, going out of your way to prevent me from even attempting to evade my pursuers before going to hyperspace. You have gone out of your way to prevent me from using my skills and talents, and strategy to escape the TIE fighters, and prevent the Star Destroyer from potentially figuring out my destination from my hyperspace vector. I do not want a GM like that. One of the whole points of this campaign was to allow me gain practical experience with the rules as written, not how you interpret them, not with a bunch of house rules. This includes the rules on planetary range bands and the sensor ranges listed in the books. The rules say that Close range is only a handful of kilometers, roughly an hour’s walk, it is not thousands of kilometers . It is not low orbit. Thousands of kilometers is long range in space and extreme range in atmosphere. Whether you agree with that or not is completely irrelevant. That is RAW. And as far as the game goes, that is what is most important. That is because of game balance. Therefore, RAW trumps your interpretation of canon.

In your games at your house, you are welcome to run all of the house rules you want. I play by the RAW. And that means the range bands listed in the books, and the distances given for each as written on pages 244 and 245 of the F&D core rules, not what you want them to be. That means that the effects of the Full Throttle, Improved Full Throttle, and Supreme Full Throttle take effect immediately. The vehicle is boosted to a higher speed than it could otherwise reach as a single action or maneuver, as written and as intended.

And yes, an atmosphere does affect sensors and communications. This is true in game and in reality. Atmospheric conditions do affect electromagnetic signals. The various gases that make up the atmosphere, weather conditions, wind, all affect electromagnetic signals and, therefore, sensor ranges, not just a vehicle’s speed. I know this for a fact because the weather repeatedly affects the reception of my TV’s satellite dish. So don’t give me that BS about sensor ranges not being affected by atmosphere. It most certainly is.

5 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

If you hadn’t been screwing me over and going against the RAW, I wouldn’t be arguing. I didn’t have this problem with @killerbeardhawk , nor with @awayputurwpn . You came in and, right away, started from an adversarial position, going out of your way to prevent me from even attempting to evade my pursuers before going to hyperspace. You have gone out of your way to prevent me from using my skills and talents, and strategy to escape the TIE fighters, and prevent the Star Destroyer from potentially figuring out my destination from my hyperspace vector. I do not want a GM like that. One of the whole points of this campaign was to allow me gain practical experience with the rules as written, not how you interpret them, not with a bunch of house rules. This includes the rules on planetary range bands and the sensor ranges listed in the books. The rules say that Close range is only a handful of kilometers, roughly an hour’s walk, it is not thousands of kilometers . It is not low orbit. Thousands of kilometers is long range in space and extreme range in atmosphere. Whether you agree with that or not is completely irrelevant. That is RAW. And as far as the game goes, that is what is most important. That is because of game balance. Therefore, RAW trumps your interpretation of canon.

In your games at your house, you are welcome to run all of the house rules you want. I play by the RAW. And that means the range bands listed in the books, and the distances given for each as written on pages 244 and 245 of the F&D core rules, not what you want them to be. That means that the effects of the Full Throttle, Improved Full Throttle, and Supreme Full Throttle take effect immediately. The vehicle is boosted to a higher speed than it could otherwise reach as a single action or maneuver, as written and as intended.

And yes, an atmosphere does affect sensors and communications. This is true in game and in reality. Atmospheric conditions do affect electromagnetic signals. The various gases that make up the atmosphere, weather conditions, wind, all affect electromagnetic signals and, therefore, sensor ranges, not just a vehicle’s speed. I know this for a fact because the weather repeatedly affects the reception of my TV’s satellite dish. So don’t give me that BS about sensor ranges not being affected by atmosphere. It most certainly is.

You need a serious reality check and I'm going to try to give it to you in a non offensive way so please try to take this with an open mind

You argue because you LIKE to argue, you said so yourself to me in person face to face while I was in Buffalo.

My response was I can tolerate debating but I don't like to argue.

In the circa 1.5 decades we've known each other I've never seen you not argue with someone who expressed a different opinion than you, and I've never seen you actually admit to being wrong about anything, your equivalent to admitting that you're wrong about something is dropping the particular topic to argue something else (and you've done a lot of that in the last 8 weeks). That's arguing.

Debating means willing to be convinced of an opposing viewpoint, twice in the last 8 weeks I've admitted be wrong about things and changed my ruling on things (once reversing a point of conflict).

Back when you were first trying to set up this campaign I declined to GM on the basis of not having the time and 8 weeks ago I only offered to GM for you after you had alienated the latest of 3 GMs, Mychal'el, with your arguing about the particular thing we've been arguing about for the last 8 weeks. But since I don't like to argue, I put conditions on me GMing which were meant to deter arguments.

Now WHY would someone who you know firsthand doesn't like to argue, agree to GM someone (you) they know will argue over any difference in opinion?

The answer is I've been trying to provide you with an opportunity to play Korath as close as possible to the way you want to play him*

That is not an "adversarial GM" unless your definition of adverse is having any different opinions than you.

So let's check that assumption... I got you back into the star wars RPG after your saga long absence, and I've been sending you ffg star wars rpg books for your birthday and Christmas. That doesn't sound like the actions of someone who is "adverse" to you playing the star wars RPG

But maybe I'm just adverse to you playing Korath? I helped you build Korath, double checking and catching build errors using ogg dude's generator, suggested scar talents as a way to save you xp, and recommended you putting all of your starting xp into attributes for a more xp efficient build but adhering to your different wishes when I helped you build Korath. When it turned out that Korath's build wasn't such a great pilot (his talents weren't so helpful in practice), as GM I ***OFFERED*** you a mid encounter rebuild of Korath. Back in the day I also made sure that Mychal'el and Matt Skywalker got characters THEY WANTED TO PLAY so that they would be more likely to stay in the game. That doesn't sound like the actions of someone who doesn't want you to play Korath either.

So maybe I'm someone who adverse to you playing Korath the way you want to play him.... since I am (as this campaign has shown) rightly concerned about you abusing anyone who plays your padawan because your tendency to power trip, and you want another PC to play your padawan maybe you've got grounds for calling me being "adverse" to you abusing other players. Otherwise not so much.

But surely I have to be "adverse" in some way, how can any person have opinions and not be adverse to opposing positions...

This is where you get me, you are right that from the beginning I thought that your "plan"/"strategy" (I'm being generous with those labels) for out running the sensor range of ***state of the art*** FIRST ORDER tie fighters in a silhoutte 5 frieghter that dates back to the rise of the empire era (i.e. a design that's older than luke skywalker in universe) was pretty ludicrous, and a thought a snowball had a better chance on mustafar. But after debating it with you for 8 weeks I came around to the point of view that although it was long odds it was possible.

So yes I was "adverse" (still am) to your "PLAN" for leaving kamino without first order ships seeing your exit vector because in universe I think it's highly unlikely that even say Luke Skywalker could pull that off.

You and I have very different opinions about how likely you are to pull this off.

Mychal'el and I had very similar opinions on how difficult this is though we differed in details and probably also reasoning for the shared opinion, but that make 2 count them 2 GMs you've gone through on this 1 issue. Majority rule suggests that Mychal'el and i are reasonable while you are not. That doesn't sound very much like I'm out to get you.

I've long since let go of any hostility I had for you/Korath over how you treated me when I was a player in your game over a decade ago. I'm just not that petty. But that doesn't mean that i fold like a wet paper bag either.

So we've debated a lot of stuff over the last 8 weeks and you've seen to have abandoned (conceded) all but 2 of your arguments.

Regarding those

The RAW you quoted on Full Throttle and Supreme version had the word TOP in it which you were/are conveniently ignoring in your interpretation of RAW on these talents. (Omitting that word makes the talent much more beneficial for your particular "build" and ship, but your perspectives have always been skewed biased in your own favor for as long as I've known you.) And you haven't even attempted to explain away TOP you just claimed it wasn't relevant.

As for sensor Ranges, my ruling is consistent with Cannon, the rule text you're citing isn't (and is also nonsensical, logically the universe can't function that way), I don't think another GM would fault me for going with Cannon over the rulebook even if they went the other way.

The thing that surprises me, you being the cannon junky that you are, I mean I know you hated when Disney deep-sixed the EU but this comes straight out of the original trilogy... how did me pointing out that Luke's xwing (which has close sensor range by RAW) picking up "a whole lot of life down there" from low orbit over dagobah NOT convince you that close range is low orbit to surface IN UNIVERSE. Don't point to the rulebook and quote text on ranges, that's not what I'm asking, what I'm asking is WHY you the uber cannon junkie is insisting on going with text in a non cannon rulebook that is DIRECTLY CONTRADICTED by onscreen evidence from the original star wars trilogy? I haven't been able to wrap my head around this response from you, other than you disregard anything that's not beneficial to Korath.

The index of refraction of air is 1.0003, the index of refraction of vacuum is identically 1. Sensors that can see from low orbit to ground can just as easily see from ground to low orbit. The ionosphere and lightning mess up radio waves big-time during "storms" because they're in the same frequency range but they do next to nothing to other frequencies (e.g. visible light). If Luke's xwing can detect **life** through clouds (when he subsequently gets hit by lightning on the way down) yeah the effect is pretty darn neglible to star wars sensors, it's also a pretty good indication that their sensors aren't solely restricted to radio frequency EM (they got more than just radar).

But using a storm as a justification for a dramatic drop in sensor range under normal conditions is a straw strawman argument and you know it. Storms should be handled by adding black dice to sensor checks and if you recall I already offered you the chance to lose the tie fighters by flying into a hurricane, so I adequately covered that strawman objection long before you even raised it.

I will join the campaign as Korath's padawan, but only if Elias is the GM.

9 hours ago, SavageBob said:

I will join the campaign as Korath's padawan, but only if Elias is the GM.

I'm not sure I'm willing to be a party to the verbal abuse that I'm pretty sure Tramp in going to inflict on you that he's going to try to justify as good roleplaying. I'd shield you as much as I could (e.g. verbally abusing padawans earns conflict), but are you sure you want to do this???

I just wonder if part of the problem is that there's only one player, so the GM–player relationship seems more adversarial than it needs to be. (Not that I think you've been adversarial.) If there were other players involved, they might have just said, "Hey, this scene sounds good; let's roll with it."

Elias, the problem with your view on the sensors is that canonically, there are actually four different modes for sensors. The game only includes two of them, specifically the two most needed for combat. According to the New Essential Guide to Vehicles , Passive sensors cover a ship’s immediate surroundings, not great distances . They don’t reach out beyond that. Scan mode covers a much wider range, It was Scan mode that Luke used when he got those “massive life form readings”. Search mode narrows the sensor spread to sweep specific areas for greater detail, focus mode which really narrows down the feed to get the most information about the targets being scanned. The game only covers Passive mode and Search mode (known as Active mode here) because those are the ones most utilized for combat. Scan mode is what Luke used to scan Dagobah, since, it and Focus mode, have the longest ranges. However, they are not used in this game system. Passive Mode and Search (active) mode are used for detection of unknown objects or ships within the relatively immediate range of the ship. For a star fighter, this is within five to thirty kilometers or so. For a capital ship, because of the much longer range of its weapons, is up to several thousand kilometers. Scan mode and focus mode are for learning additional specific details of a scanned area, planet, region, etc. rather than detection of potential inclining threats. This is why sensors and comms don’t reach as far as you think they “should” in the game. The sensor modes used in the game are those designed for detecting enemies within the relative immediate surroundings of the ship in question, not for longer range scans of known locations to learn specific information. They don’t need to for combat since combat doesn’t take place at those kinds of distances. This is especially true of Starfighters. Starfighters fight at extremely close ranges of less than a few kilometers between them. They don’t target opponents thousands of kilometers away. That is why Starfighters only have sensor range of Close, and why Close range is only a handful of kilometers. That is all that is needed for detecting targets in combat in the game. Capital ships need to have passive sensors that reach hundreds or thousands of kilometers because their weapons can reach targets at those distances effectively. Starfighter weapons can’t. And that’s canon.

The second problem with your assertion that sensors always work at Space distances , even in atmosphere, is that you’re not taking into account line of sight and the curvature of a given planet. This is a key factor in atmospheric flight, and thus severely limits how far sensors can reach, and why sensors and comms are also adjusted by whether you’re in space or in atmosphere. In space, you don’t need to worry about a the curvature of a planet, As long as there are no obstacles, and the signal is strong enough, the signal will eventually reach its target. In an atmosphere or on the surface of a planet, you do. This is because electromagnetic signals travel in a straight line , not a curve. therefore, they cannot reach a target that is below the horizon. Instead , they simply travel in a straight line out into space, or out as far as they can before the signal dissipates. That is the main reason why sensors and comms use atmospheric distances for planetary range bands when in atmosphere or on a surface, and the only way to extend comms ranges is through communication relays, such as towers, buoys, and satellites.

As for the Full Throttle talents, no, I am not ignoring the term “Top” speed being used. My point is that you are taking that term out of context. If the Supreme Full Throttle worked the way you say it does, the full description would say that you you need to make additional acceleration maneuvers to actually accelerate to that speed, and this is not the case. The whole point of the talents is to push the vessel beyond its limits for a very brief period of time. Requiring additional maneuvers for acceleration defeats the whole point of the talent. So yes, in this regard Supreme Full Throttle does borrow a bit from Punch It. The difference is that Supreme Full Throttle is a talent , not a standard maneuver anyone ca use, which applies to up to Sil 5 ships, and you have to already be at top speed in order to make use of it. You can’t go from 0 to two over your top speed. You only go from your normal top speed to the higher one, but as written, and intended, this acceleration does happen within one action or maneuver (if also making use of the Improved talent). Talents, by design, enable the performance of deeds which would otherwise not be allowed. So no, by RAW, Supreme Full Throttle does not require additional time or maneuvers to accelerate to that new top speed. It is accomplished within that single action/maneuver. That is what the talent is intended to do. You appear to be the only one I have ever heard think otherwise.

As for a silhouette 5 ship being unlikely to pull off “stunts” like this, look at the Ghost . It’s pulled off even crazier stunts. And, for the record, what I’m trying to accomplish doesn’t require exceptional maneuverability nor a small size, nor great speed. It’s all about fooling the enemy’s sensors. All that requires is knowledge of the limitations of the opponent, and your ship, and a knowledge of tactics, and a healthy dose of guile.

Also, for the record, First Order sensors suck . This is explicitly stated in TFA. Finn did not tell Rey to fly low because the specific terrain of Jakku would make it harder for the FO TIE fighters to track them. He told her that the simple act of flying low to a surface confuses their sensors. First Order sensors are weak against any form of “nap of the earth” flying, regardless of terrain. It had nothing to do with the specific terrain and obstacles found on Jakku. First Order sensors are simply poorly designed for handling low flying aircraft. That is one of the very reasons why I chose to fly low and why I spent the advantages the way I did. To exploit that weakness, be it through setback dice against their sensor checks or piloting checks, or some other penalty to them (such as Mychal’el’s ruling that I had, at least temporarily, lost them). It is an inherent weakness of First Order TIE fighter sensors not a trait granted by any specific terrain. That is canon .

One thing that I only recently considered is that, given the president set by the developers regarding Enhance being able to be used to make three separate Force leaps (twice as maneuvers, and once as an action), it stands to reason that Korath should still have an action left for that first round to make an initial Enhanced competitive piloting check against the TIEs. I’m tempted to ask the devs about that, but it’s not that big of an issue, and my turn was already over before I remembered that precident.

For the record, I have submitted a question regarding the Full Throttle talents, specificallyas to whether or not additional maneuvers are needed to actually accelerate to that new top speed, to the developers—as well as a separate one about sensor ranges—for an official ruling on the matter, and am waiting on a response for both questions.

6 hours ago, SavageBob said:

I just wonder if part of the problem is that there's only one player, so the GM–player relationship seems more adversarial than it needs to be. (Not that I think you've been adversarial.) If there were other players involved, they might have just said, "Hey, this scene sounds good; let's roll with it."

No, it’s a fundamental disagreement on the rules. Having more players would definitely help, particularly for manning the guns, as well as putting this ship to it’s intended purpose.

2 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

No, it’s a fundamental disagreement on the rules. Having more players would definitely help, particularly for manning the guns, as well as putting this ship to it’s intended purpose.

Well, to me, telling a fun story for GM and players is much more important than rules. I always think it best to just roll with the GM and spin a cool yarn together.

@Tramp Graphics ill GM, but you must post in character.

On 4/1/2018 at 7:23 PM, SavageBob said:

Well, to me, telling a fun story for GM and players is much more important than rules. I always think it best to just roll with the GM and spin a cool yarn together.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/253621-jedi-quest-ic-thread/?page=12

Here's the link to the IC thread currently clocking at 12 pages of potentially salvageable yarn versus the currently 20 pages (and climbing) of excruciatingly trivial arguments in the OOC thread.

Save the story!

One thing, I double checked the Enhance rules again last night and I was mistaken about potentially getting another action. The Control Upgrade for Enhance I was thinking of that allows its use a maneuver is only when doing a Force Leap. So, my use of Enhance with my Piloting check for Improved/Supreme Full Throttle , was indeed my action for that round, as I originally thought. Had I not had the Improved Full Throttle talent (which allows Full Throttle as a Maneuver), I would not have been able to Enhance as part of that check.

On 4/1/2018 at 10:23 PM, SavageBob said:

Well, to me, telling a fun story for GM and players is much more important than rules. I always think it best to just roll with the GM and spin a cool yarn together.

Yes, however, if a GM's "house rules" inhibit said fun for the player(s), and prevent him from attempting what he seeks to attempt, whereas the RAW would certainly allow it, that ruins the fun of the game. This is one of the key reasons why I'm not a fan of house rules in general.

On 4/2/2018 at 12:55 PM, killerbeardhawk said:

@Tramp Graphics ill GM, but you must post in character.

I'm alright with that. I also have at least one more potential player/part time GM, @Rabobankrider said he could potentially be available starting at the end of the month, and am going to invite a few more from his Revan's War campaign to join as well.

17 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

One thing, I double checked the Enhance rules again last night and I was mistaken about potentially getting another action. The Control Upgrade for Enhance I was thinking of that allows its use a maneuver is only when doing a Force Leap. So, my use of Enhance with my Piloting check for Improved/Supreme Full Throttle , was indeed my action for that round, as I originally thought. Had I not had the Improved Full Throttle talent (which allows Full Throttle as a Maneuver), I would not have been able to Enhance as part of that check.

Yes, however, if a GM's "house rules" inhibit said fun for the player(s), and prevent him from attempting what he seeks to attempt, whereas the RAW would certainly allow it, that ruins the fun of the game. This is one of the key reasons why I'm not a fan of house rules in general.

I'm alright with that. I also have at least one more potential player/part time GM, @Rabobankrider said he could potentially be available starting at the end of the month, and am going to invite a few more from his Revan's War campaign to join as well.

Ok. Start posting in character when your ready.

@Tramp Graphics when do you plan on continuing? Will you be handling adding new characters?

5 hours ago, killerbeardhawk said:

@Tramp Graphics when do you plan on continuing? Will you be handling adding new characters?

Once this session is resolved, we'll take a small hiatus to get more players/GMs into the group. @Rabobankrider can't join in until the end of the month, so that's the earliest we'll be able to start the next session.

As for who will handle new characters, that depends on if we go with rotating GMs or if someone wants to GM full time. I can handle new characters if everyone wants me to, though we should probably come up with some better ground rules for deciding on equipment and money for the Master level characters, particularly any that are made from scratch instead of having been previously played.

As for making a new post, that'll have to wait until tomorrow. The library is about to close.

When I do make my post tomorrow, I will repost the rolls I had made that round, both for Korath's Full Throttle check and S3's Mechanics check for his first attempt to remove the tracker.

16 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Once this session is resolved, we'll take a small hiatus to get more players/GMs into the group. @Rabobankrider can't join in until the end of the month, so that's the earliest we'll be able to start the next session.

As for who will handle new characters, that depends on if we go with rotating GMs or if someone wants to GM full time. I can handle new characters if everyone wants me to, though we should probably come up with some better ground rules for deciding on equipment and money for the Master level characters, particularly any that are made from scratch instead of having been previously played.

As for making a new post, that'll have to wait until tomorrow. The library is about to close.

When I do make my post tomorrow, I will repost the rolls I had made that round, both for Korath's Full Throttle check and S3's Mechanics check for his first attempt to remove the tracker.

Please dont repost, just continue on.

2 hours ago, killerbeardhawk said:

Please dont repost, just continue on.

So then, it's the next round? If so we'll need a competitive piloting check vs the TIEs for the chase,though, they'll be hard pressed to locate me, and I need to roll S3's second attempt to remove the tracker. I'll be using the advantages he rolled to add 2 boost dice to this roll. I should be at least Medium range from the TIEs, so that's outside of even their active sensor range, and I'm flying less than 50 meters off of the ocean surface to confuse their sensors even further. I need difficulty numbers for the piloting check.

1 minute ago, Tramp Graphics said:

So then, it's the next round? If so we'll need a competitive piloting check vs the TIEs for the chase,though, they'll be hard pressed to locate me, and I need to roll S3's second attempt to remove the tracker. I'll be using the advantages he rolled to add 2 boost dice to this roll. I should be at least Medium range from the TIEs, so that's outside of their active sensor range, and I'm flying less than 50 meters off of the ocean surface to confuse their sensors even further. I need difficulty numbers for the piloting check.

2 challenge, 2 diificulty

14 minutes ago, killerbeardhawk said:

2 challenge, 2 diificulty

OK, so the same for the TIES, or should we add some of those advantages from my previous roll as setback dice against them?

Also, I'm gonna have the ship's Autopilot droid brain perform a Co-pilot action each round.

Here's my piloting roll:

Piloting Check : 2eA+1eP+4eF+2eC+2eD 4 failures, 1 threat, 5 Light Side, 1 Dark Side

With Improved Shortcut , I add an automatic success to that roll (at the cost of two strain), then I spend four LSPs to add four successes giving me a net +1 success, and the last LSP to cancel out that threat. Next round I need to make another Supreme Full Throttle maneuver to attempt to maintain speed 5, along with another competitive check for the chase.

Here's the Autopilot droid brain's Co-pilot check:

Co-Piloting Check : 2eA+2eD 1 success

That'll downgrade the difficulty of Korath's next piloting check next round by one.

And here's S3's second Mechanics check to attempt to remove the tracker,

Mechanics : 3eP+2eB+4eD 0 successes, 5 advantage
,

Still no successes, but five advantages; more boosts for the next attempt.

Can you roll the ties for me?

CCDD VS PPAAB

Also when did you have time to commit all your force dice to Enhance? If i read the thread correctly you only spent 1 action which is a single force dice.

9 minutes ago, killerbeardhawk said:

Also when did you have time to commit all your force dice to Enhance? If i read the thread correctly you only spent 1 action which is a single force dice.

I'm using the Piloting Space Control upgrade, which is a normal combined check as per F&D 280-281. That doesn't require committing Force dice. The Base Enhance power is used as part of an Athletics check, and it doesn't limit how many dice you roll as part of the check. Korath has both Piloting control upgrades (both Planetary and Space). As per the rules for combined Force Power checks (F&D page 280-281), you roll your Force dice (as per normal Force power checks) , as part of your skill check. (F&D Page 280 Force Power Checks second paragraph first sentence):

Quote

Characters generate Force Pips by making a Fore power check, rolling one or more Force Dice and generating Force Pips as a result.

Korath has a Force Rating of 4 , so that's four Force Dice he can roll for any Force Power check, unless a given power or talent says otherwise.

Enhance (with the Piloting (space) Control upgrade allows me to spend the resulting Force Points as my choice of Successes or Advantages to any combined piloting checks I make.There's no committing required. The upgrades Enhance has that require you to commit dice are the two that increase your Brawn or Agility attributes (F&D page 288), not the ones that combine with skill checks. That's where you got confused. I'm not committing any dice to boost an attribute. I'm just making a standard combined Enhanced Piloting (space) roll.

58 minutes ago, killerbeardhawk said:

Can you roll the ties for me?

CCDD VS PPAAB

Where are they getting a Boost die from? I'm guessing their Handling.

Here's their roll:

Piloting check : 2eA+2eP+1eB+2eC+2eD 1 success, 2 advantage