You asked me to cite the rules regarding ships having different active and passive sensor ranges, I did so. Page 233 of the F&D core rules which specifically state that sensors in passive mode are the listed range on the ship’s stats with sensors in active mode being one range band farther, but only in one firing arc. The G9 Rigger (sil 4), ZH-25 (sil 4) Simiyar Light Freighter (sil 4), all have Medium range sensors ( F&D pages 263-265). The ADZ-class destroyer and IR-3F class Light frigate (sil 5) have a listed sensor range of extreme, the CR90(sil 5) has a listed sensor range of Long(all in F&D page 266), the ND-47 Stalwart bulk freighter (sil5) has a listed sensor range of Medium (KtP page 62). The YZ-775 , of which the YZ-900 is the sister ship of, is also listed as having a sensor range of Medium range. And, by RAW (F&D page 233) that is passive mode.

So, by RAW, all ship’ s in FFG have two sensor ranges, the listed range being passive mode.

Therefore, please explain to me how. TIE fighter, with a listed sensor range of Close (and active sensor range of Short ) which you have already stated and is backed up by RAW, equates to a ship with a listed sensor range of Medium is somehow limited to short range with passive sensors when, by RAW, passive sensor range equals the listed sensor range of any given ship , with Active range being one range higher than listed sensor range. It seems to me like you’re trying to handicap me further when I’m already at a disadvantage to begin with.

34 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

Also, if you're just going to continue to roll mechanics checks until you remove the tracker there's no point in rolling at all. I've already ruled that s3 can/did remove the tracker, it took 2 rounds flying at speed 3, and the 4 ties caught up to you just as s3 came back in the hatch. This is the point in time at which Korath resides. What do you do.

Which would have meant four rounds had to have passed since I was originally flying at speed five for two rounds. Regardless, I already said once the tracker is removed, but before I ditch it completely, I need to use my Full Throttle, Improved Full Throttle, and Supreme Full Throttle with Enhance to get back up to speed 5, to get out of their sensor range, then ditch the tracker completely and make a b-line in another direction to try and lose that tail so that they won’t know where I’m going. That’s my plan. And that will take another two rounds of actions and maneuvers (first round for the enhanced Supreme and Improved Full Throttle ( a maneuver for the Full Throttle tree and an action for Enhance) piloting check; and second round for an Enhanced piloting check with Improved Shortcut (an incidental) to add an automatic success to attempt to lose them). That’s the plan. And to do that, I need to get out of their active sensor range. And that will take at least two rounds of Enhanced piloting checks alternating between activations of the Full Throttle tree and Improved Short Cut.

On 1/24/2018 at 7:26 PM, EliasWindrider said:

Second, the sensor and comm rules in ffg star wars is one of the biggest deficiencies in the games and require house ruling to produce a sensible universe. Also close space range is quite a bit bigger than close planetary range, so if you were in space you might have an argument there, but you stated you wanted to lose them in atmosphere so you don't have a leg to stand on with this argument. Also active sensors have greater range than passive sensors and someone using active sensors shines like a beacon to anyone within their sensor range. Basically if you can see them, they can see you unless you're both using passive sensors.

@Tramp Graphics

You are misrepresenting my statement and RAW.

See me quoting myself in the previous post and others like it.

If we were restricting ourselves to RAW you wouldn't be flying a yz-900.

My ruling stands.

Make that 2 conflict, do you care to keep arguing to make it, 4, 8, 16, ...?

You aren't going to win this, I recommend that you cut your losses before Korath has an uncontrollable fit of rage while flying the Jedi star and falls to the darkside.

1 hour ago, EliasWindrider said:

Also, if you're just going to continue to roll mechanics checks until you remove the tracker there's no point in rolling at all. I've already ruled that s3 can/did remove the tracker, it took 2 rounds flying at speed 3, and the 4 ties caught up to you just as s3 came back in the hatch. This is the point in time at which Korath resides. What do you do.

1 hour ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Which would have meant four rounds had to have passed since I was originally flying at speed five for two rounds. Regardless, I already said once the tracker is removed, but before I ditch it completely, I need to use my Full Throttle, Improved Full Throttle, and Supreme Full Throttle with Enhance to get back up to speed 5, to get out of their sensor range, then ditch the tracker completely and make a b-line in another direction to try and lose that tail so that they won’t know where I’m going. That’s my plan. And that will take another two rounds of actions and maneuvers (first round for the enhanced Supreme and Improved Full Throttle ( a maneuver for the Full Throttle tree and an action for Enhance) piloting check; and second round for an Enhanced piloting check with Improved Shortcut (an incidental) to add an automatic success to attempt to lose them). That’s the plan. And to do that, I need to get out of their active sensor range. And that will take at least two rounds of Enhanced piloting checks alternating between activations of the Full Throttle tree and Improved Short Cut.

Traveling at speed 5 will not get you out of their sensor range since they also travel at speed 5.

Upon further review... I was wrong. RAW ffg sensor rules are still nonsensical, as in a tie fighter can travel faster than it can see but it is not as nonsensical as I thought. I will be introducing a sensor house rule as of the next encounter but to be above and beyond fair to tramp we will be using sensor RAW for the remainder of this encounter. But starship sensors work at space range not planetary and your movement in atmosphere is using planetary range bands which are smaller than space range (close space range is from low "earth" orbit to the surface so that comms can travel the same distance)

The first point of conflict remains for simply arguing/regurgitating previously espoused views without presenting new info AND MORE IMPORTANTLY attempting to dictate events (you are not the GM I am), the second is reversed because you actually did present new info that I had misread in my first pass read of what you wrote.

If you want to hold on to the tracker that's fine

However, the extremely good piloting roll under Mychal'el's tenure only increased the distance between the ties by about 4 speed units, you did not loose the ties because you still had the tracker on you. And they did NOT stop following you. The 4 speed units of distance allowed you to travel at speed 3 for 2 rounds while they traveled at speed 5 for 2 rounds which means they caught up to you at the end of the 2 rounds at which you were traveling at speed 3. The 4 ties are within close range of you. You can detect other ties a good distance to your port and starboard. If you attempt to argue against that current reality it will earn Korath conflict for trying to bend the universe to his will.

You have NOT justified the use of chase rules. If your base speed was the same as a tie, or if there was a defined endpoint (a race to a hyperspace jump point) or you had a way to exploit the environment, that would justify a chase scene. If you are going to continue to try to justify a chase scene you will either need to present a NEW idea as to why it's reasonable OR Korath will earn MORE conflict for trying to bend the universe to your/his will. The pattern is 1 point of conflict the first time you argue and the conflict doubles each subsequent time you argue the same issue.

@EliasWindrider ,

If you need me to edit my posts in the IC thread to make the narrative reflect any changes that have been made let me know.

As always, I'm very interested in reading the the narrative in the IC thread. It's a shame how meager it is compared to the OOC thread. And there is a lot of OOC content spilling into the IC thread.

@Tramp Graphics ,

I'd love to see in character examples that prove that Korath is a Paragon of the light side. Not just because it says he is on a character sheet.

1 hour ago, Mychal'el said:

@EliasWindrider ,

If you need me to edit my posts in the IC thread to make the narrative reflect any changes that have been made let me know.

As always, I'm very interested in reading the the narrative in the IC thread. It's a shame how meager it is compared to the OOC thread. And there is a lot of OOC content spilling into the IC thread.

@Tramp Graphics ,

I'd love to see in character examples that prove that Korath is a Paragon of the light side. Not just because it says he is on a character sheet.

If you want to refluff it as a force vision/possible future that didn't work out as desired and thus korath intends to avoid it, that would be great.

Also Korath is a jerk/@ssh*le. Although Tramp prefers to describe him as "a tough as nails drill sergeant of a Jedi master"... poe-tay-toe/poe-tah-toe. He supposedly is a jerk that fights on the side of angels though.

Because I know tramp in real life, and I've seen his "true character" (he is a good person underneath that extremely thick crusty exterior) I know it possible for morally good people with abysmal social skills to be commonly perceived as jerks and @ssh*les based on their interactions with other people. The real inconsistency is not the morality rating but that I think tramp put ranks into Korath's social skills.

Despite that, refusing to accept reality, attempting to bend/reshape it through force of will to what he wants it to be is darkside/conflict worthy in my book.

Given the expected amount of back and forth, I'm going to wait until a narrative is actually decided before I post narrative text in the in character thread, it's just the "cost of doing business" with tramp as a player.

14 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

If you want to refluff it as a force vision/possible future that didn't work out as desired and thus korath intends to avoid it, that would be great.

You got it!

I think I made it work. If there's anything else I missed, let me know.

4 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

I know it possible for morally good people with abysmal social skills to be commonly perceived as jerks and @ssh*les based on their interactions with other people. The real inconsistency is not the morality rating but that I think tramp put ranks into Korath's social skills.

Despite that, refusing to accept reality, attempting to bend/reshape it through force of will to what he wants it to be is darkside/conflict worthy in my book.

Being morally upright would cause someone to be selfless and kind even in social interactions. Even if one was oblivious of others feelings and hurt them unintentionally, they still would not be able to get to paragon in actual play. That feat would be less believable than the setting itself.

Before I meant, I'm curious to see how Korath proves his morality in social interactions.

19 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

Tramp prefers to describe him as "a tough as nails drill sergeant of a Jedi master"... poe-tay-toe/poe-tah-toe. He supposedly is a jerk that fights on the side of angels though.

To a "drill sergeant" type of person, the end justifies the means (Machiavellianism). They act like bullies and justify that method with the good results they observe, ignoring the negative emotional and mental side effects. Then they undermine any criticisms against them in the same contentious and argumentative way. They may try to bribe their victims with generosity in order to pacify them, and they generally will keep score of the good things they have provided, in an effort to earn their victim's loyalty (Stockholm Syndrome).

Even if a "drill sergeant" fought for the "good guys", they still employ a form of negative coercion (bullying) on their allies, which would at least disqualify them from being a Paragon.

FWIW, a lot of people play lawful goog dnd paladins as holier than thou, self righteous, anoying jerks. Depending how in your face they are about it, that's not a far cry from a "drill sergeant." There are a lot of fundamentalists/extremists across different religions who use their religion to justify "not so nice behavior" towards others that perceive as "less holy" than themselves. This is not a mark against the religion but towards the people who use their religion to justify the "not so nice behavior." To err is human, to forgive is divine. If people focused on forgiveness more and judgment less they would be better people and members of their religion. Tramp has given me the impression of having fundamentalist leanings. And i imagine Korath does too, but that's a common trope among relgious characters in rpgs, so im not 100% positive it should disqualify Korath from paragon.

19 hours ago, Mychal'el said:

You got it!

I think I made it work. If there's anything else I missed, let me know.

Thanks!

In case it wasn't clear I'm waiting on @Tramp Graphics to tell me what his next move is given his current reality which isn't going to change until Korath changes it somehow.

On 2/3/2018 at 10:00 AM, EliasWindrider said:

Upon further review... I was wrong. RAW ffg sensor rules are still nonsensical, as in a tie fighter can travel faster than it can see but it is not as nonsensical as I thought. I will be introducing a sensor house rule as of the next encounter but to be above and beyond fair to tramp we will be using sensor RAW for the remainder of this encounter. But starship sensors work at space range not planetary and your movement in atmosphere is using planetary range bands which are smaller than space range (close space range is from low "earth" orbit to the surface so that comms can travel the same distance)

To clarify low earth orbit is an altitude of 2000 km, close space range has to be a little bigger than that so you can comm someone who isn't exactly below you, the radius of the earth is about 6500 km, so close space range is about a third of the radius of the earth. The bottom line is that extreme planetary range easily fits within CLOSE SPACE RANGE. If the Jedi star can get 2 maneuvers past the start of planetary extreme range away from the nearest Tie (at the end of a round), then I'll rule that your outside of the sensor range of the ties. I have no idea how you'll manage that though.

@Tramp Graphics still waiting on your next action

BTW if you want to use space range bands for movement, you'll need to leave the atmosphere.

My plan is simple. I'm going to use my Full Throttle talents, to get back up to speed and the Short Cut talents with an Enhanced Piloting check to try and get outside of their short sensor range. In the mean time, I want Hacker to attach the tracker to one of my concussion missiles in the forward tube. Once I get out of the TIEs' sensor range, I want to launch the missile and take off in a different direction. Hopefully, they'll follow the missile. I just need to make the rolls. Since chases are competitive

On 2/3/2018 at 12:00 PM, EliasWindrider said:

Upon further review... I was wrong. RAW ffg sensor rules are still nonsensical, as in a tie fighter can travel faster than it can see but it is not as nonsensical as I thought. I will be introducing a sensor house rule as of the next encounter but to be above and beyond fair to tramp we will be using sensor RAW for the remainder of this encounter. But starship sensors work at space range not planetary and your movement in atmosphere is using planetary range bands which are smaller than space range (close space range is from low "earth" orbit to the surface so that comms can travel the same distance)

The first point of conflict remains for simply arguing/regurgitating previously espoused views without presenting new info AND MORE IMPORTANTLY attempting to dictate events (you are not the GM I am), the second is reversed because you actually did present new info that I had misread in my first pass read of what you wrote.

If you want to hold on to the tracker that's fine

However, the extremely good piloting roll under Mychal'el's tenure only increased the distance between the ties by about 4 speed units, you did not loose the ties because you still had the tracker on you. And they did NOT stop following you. The 4 speed units of distance allowed you to travel at speed 3 for 2 rounds while they traveled at speed 5 for 2 rounds which means they caught up to you at the end of the 2 rounds at which you were traveling at speed 3. The 4 ties are within close range of you. You can detect other ties a good distance to your port and starboard. If you attempt to argue against that current reality it will earn Korath conflict for trying to bend the universe to his will.

You have NOT justified the use of chase rules. If your base speed was the same as a tie, or if there was a defined endpoint (a race to a hyperspace jump point) or you had a way to exploit the environment, that would justify a chase scene. If you are going to continue to try to justify a chase scene you will either need to present a NEW idea as to why it's reasonable OR Korath will earn MORE conflict for trying to bend the universe to your/his will. The pattern is 1 point of conflict the first time you argue and the conflict doubles each subsequent time you argue the same issue.

Remember, I was traveling at Speed five for those two rounds because of the Full Throttle talents (which is what that piloting roll was made for). not speed three . Also, one key goal given with the chase rules is to get beyond Extreme range from your pursuers.

On 1/2/2018 at 8:37 PM, Tramp Graphics said:

"S3, get that tracker off the hull. Hacker, break through that jamming. I'm plotting a course out of here."

Going all out Full Throttle with all upgrades of the talent in play, so I can use Full Throttle as a maneuver and boost the ship's speed by 2 for the next two rounds and using Enhance to boost my piloting skill. This takes the Jedi Star 's speed to 5 for the next two rounds.

Piloting : 2eA+1eP+4eF+3eD 1 success, 1 threat, 8 Light Side

I use the 8 Lightside pips to gain additional Advantages, canceling out the three threat and take advantage of the enemy ships' and pilots' vulnerabilities.

I'm also keeping Enhance committed.

That was what that original piloting check was for. It was to boost my speed to five .

To get out of their sensor range (assuming they weren't using active sensors), you'd have to get beyond close space range which is about 3 maneuvers past the start of extreme planetary range before you'd even have an opportunity to use the chase rules/shortcut, unfortunately for you, you are traveling in planetary range bands because you're in atmosphere, so I have no idea how you would even have a chance to pull off what your proposing as you proposed it because speed 5 simply lets you keep pace with ties not outrun them. If you want to climb out of atmosphere then you'd get to use space range movement and you could attempt what you propose.

The rules only have two sets of range scales: personal or planetary. Planetary range only has minor differences between when a vehicle is in atmosphere or in space, which are covered on pages 244-245 of the F&D core rules. The planetary range band for Close range is only a few kilometers. Short range is only few dozen , whether in space or in atmosphere. Long range in the atmosphere is up to few hundred kilometers and a few thousand in space. Extreme range is several thousand kilometers (F&D page 245), beyond the range of most sensors. The differences between in atmosphere and in space are not that extreme. So Close or Short range in space does not equate to past Extreme range in the atmosphere. The differences are minor . I don’t know where you got the idea that Extreme range in the atmosphere was shorter that Close range in space, but, by RAW, it most certainly is not.

For the record, the only “house rules”( aside from the high XP of the “Master” characters) that were established in this campaign were the allowance of races from the USM, and ship’s from This is the Blog You’re Looking For , for obvious reasons, not any of the actual game mechanics . And even then, only to cover those species (or ship’s) not already covered in officially published FFG material. This is primarily to allow those of us new to the system’s mechanics to become more familiar with them. So, please stop trying to throw in your table’s house rules.

What I am proposing is fully within the rules as written, is tactically sound, and within what we see in canon and Legends material.

10 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

The rules only have two sets of range scales: personal or planetary. Planetary range only has minor differences between when a vehicle is in atmosphere or in space, which are covered on pages 244-245 of the F&D core rules. The planetary range band for Close range is only a few kilometers. Short range is only few dozen , whether in space or in atmosphere. Long range in the atmosphere is up to few hundred kilometers and a few thousand in space. Extreme range is several thousand kilometers (F&D page 245), beyond the range of most sensors. The differences between in atmosphere and in space are not that extreme. So Close or Short range in space does not equate to past Extreme range in the atmosphere. The differences are minor . I don’t know where you got the idea that Extreme range in the atmosphere was shorter that Close range in space, but, by RAW, it most certainly is not.

For the record, the only “house rules”( aside from the high XP of the “Master” characters) that were established in this campaign were the allowance of races from the USM, and ship’s from This is the Blog You’re Looking For , for obvious reasons, not any of the actual game mechanics . And even then, only to cover those species (or ship’s) not already covered in officially published FFG material. This is primarily to allow those of us new to the system’s mechanics to become more familiar with them. So, please stop trying to throw in your table’s house rules.

What I am proposing is fully within the rules as written, is tactically sound, and within what we see in canon and Legends material.

Unfortunately for you the rules are self inconsistent, it's impossible to follow all of sensor RAW because sensor RAW does not follow sensor RAW. RAW defines starship comm range and sensor ranged to be the same, and the comm range (close) on ties is at least from the surface to low orbit (you can get an in helmet comlink that reaches to low orbit). Because RAW for sensors is not self consistent with regards to sensor ranges, it's up to the GM, i.e. me, to choose which part of the contradictory RAW for sensors, makes the most narrative sense. I'm sorry if you don't agree with my decision about which part of the self contradictory RAW for sensors to retain and enforce, but that is my final ruling. As for your quote, it establishes numbers for planetary range bands but space range bands are left fairly undefined, as for your quote about long and "several thousand kilometers" several is an, I believe intentionally (so that the GM has the flexibility to adjudicate it), vague statement. Close space sensor range is surface to low orbit, or about 2K km, short is center of earth to low earth orbit, or about 8.5K call it 10K km, medium, is center of earth to GPS orbital radius (the archetypal middle earth orbit) or about 27K (call it 30K) km, and long is geostationary orbit or about 42K (call it 50K) km (about 50K is "several thousand"), extreme is from the earth to the moon or a little under 400K km. Because that's what makes narrative sense for sensors/comms and is consistent the PART of the self contradictory sensor RAW I believe is most important/necessary to uphold. For the duration of this encounter (BEFORE the house rule comes into play) you also get to use those range bands for exoatmospheric movement (because RAW is that movement and sensors have the same range bands).

Actually, the book does specifically state the distances involved with planetary range bands, both in atmosphere and in space. Specifically, the only point where two range bands overlap depending upon whether it's in space or in atmosphere is with Medium range and Long range. Specifically, In atmosphere, Medium range extends out to roughly fifty kilometers, whereas in space it extends out to a few hundred kilometers. In atmosphere, Long range is anywhere from one to two hundred kilometers, but in space is a few thousand. Thus, Medium range in space overlaps L ong range in atmosphere. With Close range and Short range, there is no overlap. And Extreme Range in atmosphere is way past most vehicles sensor ranges, way beyond several thousand kilometers either in atmosphere or in space. Thus, Close range is Close Range, Short range is Short Range. It doesn't matter if it's in space or in atmosphere. Close Range is dog-fighting range , it's essentially " Point blank " for vehicles and starfighters. The book does not leave Planetary Range bands in space vague at all. It gives very specific numbers, particularly for Medium and Long range. To quote

Quote

In Space, something may be within medium range at a somewhat longer distance, up to a few hundred kilometers.

Quote

In space , however, long range can be up to several thousand kilometers.

These are the distances covered in kilometers for Medium and Long Planetary range bands in Space. Close Range and Short range don't even come close to that. They don't even reach the distances Medium range covers within an atmosphere. Close Range in Space doesn't even cover Short Range in atmosphere.

I don't know where in the book you got your "close sensor ranges" from, but they're not in the book I have in front of me now. Close range is several kilometers , not several thousand kilometers. There is nothing in the rules about sensor ranges being any different. and, by RAW, there are no separate "Space range bands". Only a slight difference in how far Planetary range bands extend whether in atmosphere or in space. There is no such thing as "Space range bands" , only Personal and Planetary. Also, nowhere in the book does is say that close sensor range extends to Low Earth orbit either. Close range is Close range, whether for movement or Sensors. The only real difference between space and atmosphere is how fast a vehicle can travel at a given speed rating . IF there is any "inconsistency" its with comms , (because the writeup on personal comlinks ranges can potentially extend to low orbit range) not sensors themselves . This is because the book specifically states that Extreme Range is far beyond most vehicle's sensor ranges. So, no, Close Range sensors do not go out to low earth orbit. They only go out to maybe 10-15 kilometers. Short range sensors only go out to 36-40 kilometers or so(i.e. several dozen kilometers). Anything beyond that is Medium, Long, or Extreme range by RAW . So I don't know were you're getting your "internal inconsistency" from. The book seems very clear to me how far each range band extends whether in space or in atmosphere.

Remember, when I was in the Army, my job was communications. I can tell you that My radio did not have a range out to low Earth orbit; only the Satellite vans had that kind of range. There is a reason why Comms and sensor ranges are not as far as you seem to think they are, particularly in atmosphere: Line of sight. Radio signals travel in a straight line, and, therefore, after a certain distance, the curvature of a planet blocks line of sight. Even Air Traffic Control towers only have a communications range of 200-300 kilometers with aircraft. Any sensors or communications are limited by that simple fact. to get beyond that, but need to be able to bounce a signal off of a communications satellite. And this requires communications systems specifically designed for Satellite relays. In other words, Long range satellite communications systems. This does not include the standard comms on a starfighter or real world jet fighter. Those are short range radios. Those do not extend out to low Earth orbit. Nowhere in the book does it state that Close sensor range is 2000 kilometers or equates to low orbit. Close range is only several kilometers (low double digits here, less than twenty), not a few thousand. A few thousand is long and extreme range.

Thus, if the range on a TIE fighter's comms limits it to Close range communications, that means the TIE fighters comms only reach about ten to fifteen kilometers or so. That's it , because that's the limit to how far their sensors can reach. Not Low Orbit. There is no inconsistency there. Close Range is only several kilometers, not several thousand, not even a few thousand . Several thousand kilometers is getting into Long and Extreme range. Regardless of whether you're in atmosphere or in space. That is by RAW. There is a reason why TIE Fighters stay close to their Star Destroyers. Starfighters do not dogfight at ranges of several thousand kilometers.

Therefore, a TIE fighter's sensors only extend out to about ten to fifteen or so kilometers, (up to maybe 40 or so if in Active mode). The Jedi Star 's sensors extend out to about 200-300 kilometers, at best, in space, and only about fifty kilometers or so in atmosphere. That's it. In active mode, I'd be lucky to get out to 200 Km in atmosphere. That is because it has Medium range sensors, and that's the limit for Medium range. There is no inconsistency there. I don't know where you're getting your sensor ranges from, but it's not the rule book.

So, show me, in the rule book where it states that Close range comms (and sensors, by extension) reach low orbit. The only passage in the book I find regarding any communicator reaching low orbit is in regards to some personal comlinks having that capability.

1 hour ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Actually, the book does specifically state the distances involved with planetary range bands, both in atmosphere and in space. Specifically, the only point where two range bands overlap depending upon whether it's in space or in atmosphere is with Medium range and Long range. Specifically, In atmosphere, Medium range extends out to roughly fifty kilometers, whereas in space it extends out to a few hundred kilometers. In atmosphere, Long range is anywhere from one to two hundred kilometers, but in space is a few thousand. Thus, Medium range in space overlaps L ong range in atmosphere. With Close range and Short range, there is no overlap. And Extreme Range in atmosphere is way past most vehicles sensor ranges, way beyond several thousand kilometers either in atmosphere or in space. Thus, Close range is Close Range, Short range is Short Range. It doesn't matter if it's in space or in atmosphere. Close Range is dog-fighting range , it's essentially " Point blank " for vehicles and starfighters. The book does not leave Planetary Range bands in space vague at all. It gives very specific numbers, particularly for Medium and Long range. To quote

These are the distances covered in kilometers for Medium and Long Planetary range bands in Space. Close Range and Short range don't even come close to that. They don't even reach the distances Medium range covers within an atmosphere. Close Range in Space doesn't even cover Short Range in atmosphere.

I don't know where in the book you got your "close sensor ranges" from, but they're not in the book I have in front of me now. Close range is several kilometers , not several thousand kilometers. There is nothing in the rules about sensor ranges being any different. and, by RAW, there are no separate "Space range bands". Only a slight difference in how far Planetary range bands extend whether in atmosphere or in space. There is no such thing as "Space range bands" , only Personal and Planetary. Also, nowhere in the book does is say that close sensor range extends to Low Earth orbit either. Close range is Close range, whether for movement or Sensors. The only real difference between space and atmosphere is how fast a vehicle can travel at a given speed rating . IF there is any "inconsistency" its with comms , (because the writeup on personal comlinks ranges can potentially extend to low orbit range) not sensors themselves . This is because the book specifically states that Extreme Range is far beyond most vehicle's sensor ranges. So, no, Close Range sensors do not go out to low earth orbit. They only go out to maybe 10-15 kilometers. Short range sensors only go out to 36-40 kilometers or so(i.e. several dozen kilometers). Anything beyond that is Medium, Long, or Extreme range by RAW . So I don't know were you're getting your "internal inconsistency" from. The book seems very clear to me how far each range band extends whether in space or in atmosphere.

Remember, when I was in the Army, my job was communications. I can tell you that My radio did not have a range out to low Earth orbit; only the Satellite vans had that kind of range. There is a reason why Comms and sensor ranges are not as far as you seem to think they are, particularly in atmosphere: Line of sight. Radio signals travel in a straight line, and, therefore, after a certain distance, the curvature of a planet blocks line of sight. Even Air Traffic Control towers only have a communications range of 200-300 kilometers with aircraft. Any sensors or communications are limited by that simple fact. to get beyond that, but need to be able to bounce a signal off of a communications satellite. And this requires communications systems specifically designed for Satellite relays. In other words, Long range satellite communications systems. This does not include the standard comms on a starfighter or real world jet fighter. Those are short range radios. Those do not extend out to low Earth orbit. Nowhere in the book does it state that Close sensor range is 2000 kilometers or equates to low orbit. Close range is only several kilometers (low double digits here, less than twenty), not a few thousand. A few thousand is long and extreme range.

Thus, if the range on a TIE fighter's comms limits it to Close range communications, that means the TIE fighters comms only reach about ten to fifteen kilometers or so. That's it , because that's the limit to how far their sensors can reach. Not Low Orbit. There is no inconsistency there. Close Range is only several kilometers, not several thousand, not even a few thousand . Several thousand kilometers is getting into Long and Extreme range. Regardless of whether you're in atmosphere or in space. That is by RAW. There is a reason why TIE Fighters stay close to their Star Destroyers. Starfighters do not dogfight at ranges of several thousand kilometers.

Therefore, a TIE fighter's sensors only extend out to about ten to fifteen or so kilometers, (up to maybe 40 or so if in Active mode). The Jedi Star 's sensors extend out to about 200-300 kilometers, at best, in space, and only about fifty kilometers or so in atmosphere. That's it. In active mode, I'd be lucky to get out to 200 Km in atmosphere. That is because it has Medium range sensors, and that's the limit for Medium range. There is no inconsistency there. I don't know where you're getting your sensor ranges from, but it's not the rule book.

So, show me, in the rule book where it states that Close range comms (and sensors, by extension) reach low orbit. The only passage in the book I find regarding any communicator reaching low orbit is in regards to some personal comlinks having that capability.

2 conflict, care to make it 4

The book defines sensor range to be the same as comm range. Which given the established comm ranges is contradictory with the passages you quoted which leaves it up to the GM to choose which parts of the contradictory RAW to uphold. I've alread made that final decision for this encounter it's time to move on with the story.

No, Established comm ranges aren't contradictory. And, the book says that ship comm ranges are the same as Sensor ranges, You're mis-quoting the book. Nowhere in the book does it say what you think it does. It defines the various ships' and vehicles' sensor ranges based upon standard planetary scale ranges:

Close: several kilometers

Short a few dozen kilometers

Medium, fifty or so kilometers in atmosphere, a few hundred in space

Long, a few hundred kilometers in atmosphere, a few thousand in space

Extreme: Several thousand kilometers.

Those are the ranges and distances within them. There is nothing in the book that contradicts that.

Those are the sensor ranges according to the rule book. and, ships comms equal those ranges.

You're getting it backwards. IF a ship has close range sensors, they only go out to a few kilometers, and given that comms are limited to sensor range, they too only go out to a few kilometers. IT's that simple. There is no contradiction there.

The only passage that even remotely suggests any comms reaching orbit are certain personal comlinks. Close Range comms do not reach orbit. Close range sensors do not reach orbit. There is no contradiction here.

Give me a page number and quote to prove me wrong. I have given you direct pages and quotes to back me up. There is nothing in the rule book that contradicts that.

If you’re not going do follow the RAW on sensor ranges and keep trying to railroad me into a space battle with the TIE fighters and Star Destroyer, don’t GM for me. Your “ruling” is in direct contradiction to RAW.

I have stated my intended actions which are perfectly in line with RAW, and the narrative system of this game, so let me attempt to do so.