On 1/15/2018 at 2:38 AM, Mychal'el said:

Did you read anything we are saying? Your unrelenting obstinance is a severe hindrance to your human relationships. If people are replaceable to you, then you may not care. Maybe that's why you don't listen to others. Your argumentative spirit is unbearable. I don't know if you actually want to play this game or if the game your really playing is arguing with people until they give up.

I just wanted to get your character to the end of this session QUICKLY and give him some sweet narrative meat to take to the next table. I had such an awesome meal prepared.

But you keep pushing for more, then when I give you an extra inch because I'm feeling generous, you take a mile. Then when you exhaust me with ridiculous arguments, and I agree with whatever you want just to make the argument stop, then you start another argument because you would rather do that than actually play.

I don't understand why you think this is ok to treat people this way but it isn't.

That’s not why I’m arguing. The issue I have is the abrupt cut of a pretty important series of checks and ignoring of the intent and stated points of my intended actions to the point of essentially being railroaded into a predermined confrontation I was deliberately trying to avoid.

I was expecting you to give me difficulty values for the necessary skill checks (piloting, mechanics, and computers) but instead got a scene cut into the scenario you planned, that I was actively trying to evade , with no skill resolutions or explanation to determine how or why I ended up there. That’s railroading.

You skipped a whole series of events and railroaded me into a fight Korath can’t win without even giving me the opportunity to even try to make my plan work.

How would you like it if you told your GM your plan for avoiding a fight you know you can’t win, making your first action ( and only the first action ) towards that goal, and then being told the scene just cut to a new one with you in exactly the situation you were trying to avoid with no logical reason nor game mechanics reason for it either.

I’m sure you wouldn’t be too happy.

Now, you already said that what I planned would make for a great role-play sequence, so why not actually play it out like it should have been in the first place?

28 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Now, you already said that what I planned would make for a great role-play sequence, so why not actually play it out like it should have been in the first place?

(It goes without saying but, I'm responding to your whole post even though I'm just quoting part of it. I'm doing this in order to save space, like @awayputurwpn asked you to do when he took over. Ignoring direction is a pattern here.)

I was trying to get you to jump to lightspeed and to safety. If you feel you were railroaded then don't ignore the GM's warning that a train is coming down the track you're standing on. But you thought you could outrun it I guess.

On 1/3/2018 at 2:25 AM, Mychal'el said:

In atmosphere the Jedi Star does not have enough fuel to outrun a First Order Destroyer at sublight speed for more than a few hours (Galactic Standard Time).

I warned you that your ship would run out of fuel flying through atmosphere.

And your response was to fast forward to the other side of the planet. You skipped ahead assuming your success without asking for difficulty.

On 1/5/2018 at 4:00 PM, Tramp Graphics said:

Korath takes the ship around to the opposite side of the planet before pulling up out of the atmosphere, making sure to keep the planet between himself and the enemy.

So of course you ran out of fuel like I said you would. Then I assumed that you were out of atmosphere at this point because if you weren't you would have stalled and crashed into the ocean and died. TPK from you ignoring the GM's warning would have been stupid. So if I railroaded you, it was to save you from yourself.

You're welcome.

But you still need to feel the consequences of your decisions or else it's not an RPG. What you are demanding now (not politely asking) is a 'revert to save' type of situation. In order to get that, you will have to admit fault, and that would require an ounce of humility on your part. I'm sure it would make many people proud of you, if you learned how to do that.

Even then, I think @EliasWindrider would be a better GM for you. I have a more narrative style, and you clearly want a more crunch-focused experience.

That’s just it, I did not fast forward at all. All I did was order S3 to remove the tracker and make one Piloting check to use Supreme Full Throttle with Improved Full Throttle to get far enough ahead of the Tie fighters to give the droid a chance to do so. Those talents only last two rounds . That is not nearly enough time to get to the other side of the planet. All it does is give me some breathing room and a couple of rounds to allow the food the time to do his job. In other words, I initiated the start of a chase sequence. As long as that tracker remained on the hull, yes, there is no way to lose the enemy. However, without that tracker, using the chase rules and with the right rolls on the dice, and proper tactics, it is possible to evade the enemy and make a clear shot out of the atmosphere and into hyperspace with the enemy clueless as to my heading. I never fast forwarded anything. You did.

As for crunch vs narrative, I actually like the narrative system. However, there is still a certain amount of “crunch” necessary, to adjudicate the successs or failure (and degrees thereof) of actions and their outcomes. You bypassed that and simply assumed failure was inevitable, and didn’t even give me a chance to try. You simply assumed I was heading into orbit without removing the tracker, completely ignoring what I posted.

Understand, without gunners, this ship cannot survive running a gauntlet against a Squadron of TIE fighters and a Star Destroyer. The ship only has the one Gunner droid brain for the four guns. It can only operate one of them. That leaves three guns useless. And leaves the ship vulnerable. Not only that, but if the enemy knows my exit vector, they can calculate potential hyperspace destinations. Thus, evading them before leaving atmosphere is essential .

@Tramp Graphics you've apparently alienated @Mychal'el to the point of him resigning, so do you want the campaign to die or do you accept the conditions I put on being the GM?

You seemed to be missing the point that ditching the tracker won't change anything because your plan simply isn't feasible.

Heck I'll be extremely generous and let you just ditch the tracker without even making a roll but you have "zero" (as in it's "impossible") chance of ditching the tie fighters because you simply aren't fast enough, trying to use the chase rules on Kamino (essentially a featureless planet) while in atmosphere is utterly pointless, as they can simply stay at short range and make lazy turns instead of your tight ones because there's no terrain like a mountain range for you to make a tight turn and hide behind. But I would let you have a chase scene to get to a precomputed jump point. That has a clearly defined start and end point, once you get there you're just gone they don't have infinite opportunities to catch up.

A *very* risky alternative that could get you what you were asking for is to fly into a hurricane, but that give you greater than 41% odds of sinking the Jedi star and dying in the process). I'd run this as an "impossible" skill check, you have to spend a destiny point just to attempt it, you'd be rolling against 5 red and 5 black (modified by any talents you have), if you get at least one despair (about a 41% chance)or at least 4 uncancelled threat you sink the Jedi star and die (unless you also roll triumph or 4 uncancelled advantage in which case you, hacker, and @Mychal'el 's droid will make it to an escape pod). If you succeed with no despair and 3 or fewer uncancelled threat, you'll loose the the tie fighters like you declared that you would and be able to fly to the far side of the planet and leave undetected, but with black dice equal to the uncancelled threat on the astrogation check.

Success whether or not the jefi star sinks means that you lost them, i.e. they won't pluck you from the water in time to save your life if you sank the Jedi star.

Failure with despair means you sank the Jedi star and the imperials rescue/capture you.

19 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

That’s just it, I did not fast forward at all...

...I never fast forwarded anything. You did.

Then did someone hack your account and post this? I didnt hack you.

On 1/5/2018 at 4:00 PM, Tramp Graphics said:

Korath takes the ship around to the opposite side of the planet before pulling up out of the atmosphere, making sure to keep the planet between himself and the enemy.

On 1/22/2018 at 2:04 AM, Mychal'el said:

Then did someone hack your account and post this? I didnt hack you.

Mychal'el, you do realize that taking the ship to the other side of the planet takes more than 2 rounds, even at Speed 5. That is a statement of my goal. It is my ultimate destination . The trick is getting there in one piece and losing my pursuit in the process. Also, Do you honestly think those TIE fighters would just hang back and let me do that? No, they'd try to intercept me and shoot me down. And do you honestly think I'd just let my pursuers follow me? Of course not. The whole point of getting to the other side of the planet is to put the planet between me and the enemy so that they can't track me. Hence my need to out fly them, and lose them in order to achieve my goal. This requires a chase over a variable number of rounds until I succeed in removing the tracker and then losing my pursuers (including the SD, or fail and get shot down). So, no, that is not fast forwarding anything. You made an assumption and fast forwarded past what should have been an entire chase encounter after having already decided upon a predetermined railroaded outcome that I had no opportunity to avoid.

On 1/22/2018 at 12:13 AM, EliasWindrider said:

@Tramp Graphics you've apparently alienated @Mychal'el to the point of him resigning, so do you want the campaign to die or do you accept the conditions I put on being the GM?

You seemed to be missing the point that ditching the tracker won't change anything because your plan simply isn't feasible.

Heck I'll be extremely generous and let you just ditch the tracker without even making a roll but you have "zero" (as in it's "impossible") chance of ditching the tie fighters because you simply aren't fast enough, trying to use the chase rules on Kamino (essentially a featureless planet) while in atmosphere is utterly pointless, as they can simply stay at short range and make lazy turns instead of your tight ones because there's no terrain like a mountain range for you to make a tight turn and hide behind. But I would let you have a chase scene to get to a precomputed jump point. That has a clearly defined start and end point, once you get there you're just gone they don't have infinite opportunities to catch up.

A *very* risky alternative that could get you what you were asking for is to fly into a hurricane, but that give you greater than 41% odds of sinking the Jedi star and dying in the process). I'd run this as an "impossible" skill check, you have to spend a destiny point just to attempt it, you'd be rolling against 5 red and 5 black (modified by any talents you have), if you get at least one despair (about a 41% chance)or at least 4 uncancelled threat you sink the Jedi star and die (unless you also roll triumph or 4 uncancelled advantage in which case you, hacker, and @Mychal'el 's droid will make it to an escape pod). If you succeed with no despair and 3 or fewer uncancelled threat, you'll loose the the tie fighters like you declared that you would and be able to fly to the far side of the planet and leave undetected, but with black dice equal to the uncancelled threat on the astrogation check.

Success whether or not the jefi star sinks means that you lost them, i.e. they won't pluck you from the water in time to save your life if you sank the Jedi star.

Failure with despair means you sank the Jedi star and the imperials rescue/capture you.

There is also the option of shooting those two TIE fighters out of the sky if I can't lose them, particularly given that I have much longer longer range sensors and weapons than the TIEs. TIE Fighters' sensor Range is Close range, essentially point blank . If, once the tracker is removed, I can get beyond their sensor range, I've lost them. By simply making a beeline in a different direction after exceeding their sensor range, they would have no way to know where I went. And that takes more than simply who has the fastest ship. It's who is the better pilot and can get the most out of his ship. That's why the Chase rules are written the way they are. IF it were simply a matter of who had the faster ship, all chases would be predetermined, which would make for some very poor Role-playing experiences. Also, I'm not sure about the FO TIEs, but the TIE/Ln only has a Speed of 5 as well, so, as long as I can keep making the Full Throttle rolls, I can keep up the same speed.

On 1/24/2018 at 4:37 PM, Tramp Graphics said:

There is also the option of shooting those two TIE fighters out of the sky if I can't lose them, particularly given that I have much longer longer range sensors and weapons than the TIEs. TIE Fighters' sensor Range is Close range, essentially point blank . If, once the tracker is removed, I can get beyond their sensor range, I've lost them. By simply making a beeline in a different direction after exceeding their sensor range, they would have no way to know where I went. And that takes more than simply who has the fastest ship. It's who is the better pilot and can get the most out of his ship. That's why the Chase rules are written the way they are. IF it were simply a matter of who had the faster ship, all chases would be predetermined, which would make for some very poor Role-playing experiences. Also, I'm not sure about the FO TIEs, but the TIE/Ln only has a Speed of 5 as well, so, as long as I can keep making the Full Throttle rolls, I can keep up the same speed.

When you're the GM you get to decide what options are on/off the table and how to ascribe intent to the rules, but at the moment I'm the GM and it's MY perogative.

First of there is a squadron (12) of tie fighters in 3 flights of 4 fighters, the flights are spread out at large distances as if they were herding you so if you escape the flight of 4 directly behind you the flight a good distance to your port or starboard will pick you up. If you're about to complain about the number of fighters don't, they caught up when you were traveling slow enough for your Droid to remove the tracker.

Second, the sensor and comm rules in ffg star wars is one of the biggest deficiencies in the games and require house ruling to produce a sensible universe. Also close space range is quite a bit bigger than close planetary range, so if you were in space you might have an argument there, but you stated you wanted to lose them in atmosphere so you don't have a leg to stand on with this argument. Also active sensors have greater range than passive sensors and someone using active sensors shines like a beacon to anyone within their sensor range. Basically if you can see them, they can see you unless you're both using passive sensors.

Third the chase rules are optional rules to be used at the discretion of the GM. The intents I ascribe to the chase rules, read as "how I use them" are

• Primary: to break ties between opponents with equal speed (e.g. foot chases)
• Secondary: to allow a better racer/pilot-in-a-slower-ship to take advantage of terrain/environment.

Real life fighter pilots seek to control the terms of engagement, they want to be at an altitude at which they have a higher thrust to mass ratio than the other guy. This comes from real life friends of mine who were fighter pilots. The term terrain/environment refers to literal terrain such as mountains and asteroid fields and also weather (e.g. ionospheric conditions, hurricanes) . Unfortunately for you, you're on kamino which is pretty close to a featureless planet, so there isn't any literal terrain for you to exploit (unless the Jedi star is submersible and I'm pretty sure it's not), which leaves environment/weather. If you want to dramatically change altitude, that's one way you could exploit the environment in a chase scene, another is flying into a hurricane. Or you could go dark at night and risk crashing.

Finally I want to commend and reward you for trying to brainstorm rather than argue in the post I am replying to. It's a subtle distinction that other readers of this thread might not have caught but I did. If you want to brainstorm for creative ways that korath could exploit the environment to enable an in atmosphere star ship chase scene I am open to that, and depending on what you/we come up with as a narrative scenario I may still allow a chase scene to shake the ties. The moral of the story is get naratively creative and work with me rather than against me to tell a good story and I will reward that.

3 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Mychal'el, you do realize that taking the ship to the other side of the planet takes more than 2 rounds, even at Speed 5. That is a statement of my goal. It is my ultimate destination . The trick is getting there in one piece and losing my pursuit in the process. Also, Do you honestly think those TIE fighters would just hang back and let me do that? No, they'd try to intercept me and shoot me down. And do you honestly think I'd just let my pursuers follow me? Of course not. The whole point of getting to the other side of the planet is to put the planet between me and the enemy so that they can't track me. Hence my need to out fly them, and lose them in order to achieve my goal. This requires a chase over a variable number of rounds until I succeed in removing the tracker and then losing my pursuers (including the SD, or fail and get shot down). So, no, that is not fast forwarding anything. You made an assumption and fast forwarded past what should have been an entire chase encounter after having already decided upon a predetermined railroaded outcome that I had no opportunity to avoid.

That may have been what you were intending to communicate @Tramp Graphics but you WROTE it in a way that reads as a fast forward. Fast forward is partly because you couldn't get halfway around the planet in 2 rounds and partly because you declared it as having happened rather than as a goal you intended to pursue. You can't blame someone else, particularly someone who is unfamiliar with you, for misunderstanding the unclear and peculiar way that you tried to communicate your INTENT. This one is on you.

20 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Mychal'el, you do realize that taking the ship to the other side of the planet takes more than 2 rounds, even at Speed 5. That is a statement of my goal. It is my ultimate destination . The trick is getting there in one piece and losing my pursuit in the process. Also, Do you honestly think those TIE fighters would just hang back and let me do that? No, they'd try to intercept me and shoot me down. And do you honestly think I'd just let my pursuers follow me? Of course not. The whole point of getting to the other side of the planet is to put the planet between me and the enemy so that they can't track me. Hence my need to out fly them, and lose them in order to achieve my goal. This requires a chase over a variable number of rounds until I succeed in removing the tracker and then losing my pursuers (including the SD, or fail and get shot down). So, no, that is not fast forwarding anything. You made an assumption and fast forwarded past what should have been an entire chase encounter after having already decided upon a predetermined railroaded outcome that I had no opportunity to avoid.

Well, giving you the benefit of the doubt. Let's say that's what you meant by what you posted. Ask around, I'm sure others would agree that your post was very misleading. To properly convey intent you should either have posted it in the OOC thread or changed the wording to reflect intent rather than a present-tense exposition. For example:

Korath took the ship around and headed for the opposite side of the planet before pulling up out of the atmosphere, making sure to keep the planet between himself and the enemy.

You could have easily said, "my bad, this is what I meant to say..." and just edited it. Simple as that. There would have been no need for a long, drawn out, exhausting argument.

Also, the enemy (including a Star Destroyer) was tracking you with a tracking device so could afford to hang back at a greater distance, then the Ties could intercept very quickly in case the tracker was disabled. Work smarter, not harder, am I right?

Your rule lawyering is incredibly overblown and doesn't help you in any way.

And I didn't put you in an impossible situation. I was trying to build tension and encourage you to jump to hyperspace.

13 hours ago, Mychal'el said:

Well, giving you the benefit of the doubt. Let's say that's what you meant by what you posted. Ask around, I'm sure others would agree that your post was very misleading. To properly convey intent you should either have posted it in the OOC thread or changed the wording to reflect intent rather than a present-tense exposition. For example:

Korath took the ship around and headed for the opposite side of the planet before pulling up out of the atmosphere, making sure to keep the planet between himself and the enemy.

You could have easily said, "my bad, this is what I meant to say..." and just edited it. Simple as that. There would have been no need for a long, drawn out, exhausting argument.

Also, the enemy (including a Star Destroyer) was tracking you with a tracking device so could afford to hang back at a greater distance, then the Ties could intercept very quickly in case the tracker was disabled. Work smarter, not harder, am I right?

Your rule lawyering is incredibly overblown and doesn't help you in any way.

And I didn't put you in an impossible situation. I was trying to build tension and encourage you to jump to hyperspace.

I don't think @Tramp Graphics knows how to react to a difference of opinion in a non argumentative way (I've never seen him exhibit a healthy way of disagreeing)

18 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

Finally I want to commend and reward you for trying to brainstorm rather than argue in the post I am replying to. It's a subtle distinction that other readers of this thread might not have caught but I did. If you want to brainstorm for creative ways that korath could exploit the environment to enable an in atmosphere star ship chase scene I am open to that, and depending on what you/we come up with as a narrative scenario I may still allow a chase scene to shake the ties. The moral of the story is get naratively creative and work with me rather than against me to tell a good story and I will reward that.

I agree, bravo @Tramp Graphics !

A point of caution: Analysis Paralysis is an excellent way to avoid actually playing the game and getting caught up in an endless debate. Break the pattern.

On 1/24/2018 at 9:26 PM, EliasWindrider said:

Finally I want to commend and reward you for trying to brainstorm rather than argue in the post I am replying to. It's a subtle distinction that other readers of this thread might not have caught but I did. If you want to brainstorm for creative ways that korath could exploit the environment to enable an in atmosphere star ship chase scene I am open to that, and depending on what you/we come up with as a narrative scenario I may still allow a chase scene to shake the ties. The moral of the story is get naratively creative and work with me rather than against me to tell a good story and I will reward that.

Well, remember, this roll:

Piloting : 2eA+1eP+4eF+3eD 1 success, 1 threat, 8 Light Side

That was my piloting check to engage the three Full Throttle talents to begin my attempt to evade the TIE Fighters.

I had seven uncancelled Advantages from the light side pips I rolled on my piloting check. These specifically were to be spent to exploit the inherent weaknesses ( established TFA) with First Order Sensors not being able to track low-flying aircraft, specifically so that I can get away from the TIE Fighters, particularly long enough for S3 to get the tracker off the hull , and then really attempt to lose the pursuit through further piloting checks. Secondly, Kamino, being a water planet with no land masses, is also means relatively high winds, and a lot of large waves, many of which can be tens of meters in height, as seen in AotC. This is "terrain", moving terrain to be specific, further confusing enemy sensors. This is what the majority of those Advantages were supposed to be spent on: flying low in order to use the environment to confuse First Order Sensors. Some of those Advantages can also play out the fact that the Star Destroyer is still gathering shuttles from the surface. That would certainly prevent it from trying to intercept the Jedi Star, at least for a relatively significant amount of time.

There's also the issue of Hacker attempting to break through the First Order comms jamming; something I did specifically state I ordered him to do in the IC thread.

21 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

There's also the issue of Hacker attempting to break through the First Order comms jamming; something I did specifically state I ordered him to do in the IC thread.

@EliasWindrider is the new GM so it's all up to him now...

...But while I was GMing the other PCs escaped to hyperspace shortly after splitting off with Korath (tracker still attached). I'm not trying to encourage metagaming or anything. Just a note of reference.

On 1/31/2018 at 4:27 PM, Tramp Graphics said:

Well, remember, this roll:

Piloting : 2eA+1eP+4eF+3eD 1 success, 1 threat, 8 Light Side

That was my piloting check to engage the three Full Throttle talents to begin my attempt to evade the TIE Fighters.

I had seven uncancelled Advantages from the light side pips I rolled on my piloting check. These specifically were to be spent to exploit the inherent weaknesses ( established TFA) with First Order Sensors not being able to track low-flying aircraft, specifically so that I can get away from the TIE Fighters, particularly long enough for S3 to get the tracker off the hull , and then really attempt to lose the pursuit through further piloting checks. Secondly, Kamino, being a water planet with no land masses, is also means relatively high winds, and a lot of large waves, many of which can be tens of meters in height, as seen in AotC. This is "terrain", moving terrain to be specific, further confusing enemy sensors. This is what the majority of those Advantages were supposed to be spent on: flying low in order to use the environment to confuse First Order Sensors. Some of those Advantages can also play out the fact that the Star Destroyer is still gathering shuttles from the surface. That would certainly prevent it from trying to intercept the Jedi Star, at least for a relatively significant amount of time.

There's also the issue of Hacker attempting to break through the First Order comms jamming; something I did specifically state I ordered him to do in the IC thread.

That roll bought you 2 rounds at speed 3 before the ties caught up, in which your droid could remove the tracker and get back inside. The ties caught up at the exact moment s3 came back through the hatch, that is the sum total of what that roll bought you.

The situation on Jakku is not analogous to your situation because of different physical properties of your environment. Water propagates and and absorbs/dissipates energy, solids reflect it, metal reflects energy better than carbon based solids (e.g. dirt and rock). Differences between your situation (nothing but water beneath you) and theirs's (solids with valleys they could fly through, littered with the metal starships are made out of, heck they flew through the wreck of a star destroyer) is why the first order ties TARGETING computers got confused on Jakku, and them DETECTING your ship is not even an issue. The wind and rain and waves would screw with sonar but do Jack to em sensors. You haven't even said that you were trying to flow through the valleys between waves (if you do you'll need to make a pilot check with 2 red 2 purple and 2 black EACH ROUND and a despair means you crash the Jedi star into a wave).

Regurgitating previously rejected arguments is not brainstorming for new ideas but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt (that you didn't realize that your previous argument had already been rejected) this time.

6 hours ago, Mychal'el said:

@EliasWindrider is the new GM so it's all up to him now...

...But while I was GMing the other PCs escaped to hyperspace shortly after splitting off with Korath (tracker still attached). I'm not trying to encourage metagaming or anything. Just a note of reference.

@Tramp Graphics who were you hoping to comm?

18 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

That roll bought you 2 rounds at speed 3 before the ties caught up, in which your droid could remove the tracker and get back inside. The ties caught up at the exact moment s3 came back through the hatch, that is the sum total of what that roll bought you.

The situation on Jakku is not analogous to your situation because of different physical properties of your environment. Water propagates and and absorbs/dissipates energy, solids reflect it, metal reflects energy better than carbon based solids (e.g. dirt and rock). Differences between your situation (nothing but water beneath you) and theirs's (solids with valleys they could fly through, littered with the metal starships are made out of, heck they flew through the wreck of a star destroyer) is why the first order ties TARGETING computers got confused on Jakku, and them DETECTING your ship is not even an issue. The wind and rain and waves would screw with sonar but do Jack to em sensors. You haven't even said that you were trying to flow through the valleys between waves (if you do you'll need to make a pilot check with 2 red 2 purple and 2 black EACH ROUND and a despair means you crash the Jedi star into a wave).

Regurgitating previously rejected arguments is not brainstorming for new ideas but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt (that you didn't realize that your previous argument had already been rejected) this time.

Actually, water only absorbs radio waves if they are sent from within it, not if hitting it from outside. Usually, water reflects RADAR quite easily whereas RADAR propagates through the ground quite readily, hence why NASA plans to use Ground penetrating RADAR to look for water on Mars . So, it’s actually SONAR that travels more easily through water, water is great for fouling up RADAR; just as effective as metal.

Also, the Jedi Star has a passive sensor range of medium. So, I will definitely see any TIE fighters coming before they can get a sensor lock on me.

And, for the record, I never expected to completely lose those TIE fighters with that first roll, not with that tracker still on the hull. I do expect to need at least a couple more.

18 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

@Tramp Graphics who were you hoping to comm?

The plan was to try and earn Jarrash about about the tracker on his hull. I’m not sure about the feasibility of it now, however, since the Jedi Star doesn’t have a dedicated ECCM suite (I just discovered from Stay on Target).

1 hour ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Actually, water only absorbs radio waves if they are sent from within it, not if hitting it from outside. Usually, water reflects RADAR quite easily whereas RADAR propagates through the ground quite readily, hence why NASA plans to use Ground penetrating RADAR to look for water on Mars . So, it’s actually SONAR that travels more easily through water, water is great for fouling up RADAR; just as effective as metal.

Also, the Jedi Star has a passive sensor range of medium. So, I will definitely see any TIE fighters coming before they can get a sensor lock on me.

And, for the record, I never expected to completely lose those TIE fighters with that first roll, not with that tracker still on the hull. I do expect to need at least a couple more.

The plan was to try and earn Jarrash about about the tracker on his hull. I’m not sure about the feasibility of it now, however, since the Jedi Star doesn’t have a dedicated ECCM suite (I just discovered from Stay on Target).

You are oversimplifying the physics of water and EM (not necessarily restricted what would be a traditional "radar" i believe that you are the only one to have mentioned "Radar") but regardless.

Final ruling: Water shows up as different than metal on sci-fi sensors.

Email me the full specifications on the Jedi star. FFG star wars ships normally don't have separate listings for active and passive sensors, if the Jedi star does you'll need to cite one ffg published ship with separate listing of ranges for active and passive sensors (I'm not aware of any). Otherwise passive sensors will only detect the tie at the point the tie detects the Jedi star, because they are passive sensors.

You are treading very close to arguing which will earn conflict because you/Korath are trying to bend the universe to your will.

Basically that was only the first round. And what I described is narratively how I used those seven Advantages in order to temporarily lose them in the first place. I still need to roll another Piloting check, using the Short Cut and Improved Short Cut talents, for the second round as well as a second attempt by S3 to remove the tracker (with two boost dice from the two Advantages rolled on his first failed Mechanics check) to try and completely lose them.

8 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Basically that was only the first round. And what I described is narratively how I used those seven Advantages in order to temporarily lose them in the first place. I still need to roll another Piloting check, using the Short Cut and Improved Short Cut talents, for the second round as well as a second attempt by S3 to remove the tracker (with two boost dice from the two Advantages rolled on his first failed Mechanics check) to try and completely lose them.

You haven't justified a chase scene yet so short cut etc. are currently off the table and as I previously stated there are a lot of things I'm going to just say "you don't need to roll for that" and narrate thr outcome. BTW don't try to farm advantage and triumphs from me, if there is a meaningful roll to make (where success/failure is in question and it could make an impact on the story) then and only then will I call for a roll

3 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

You haven't justified a chase scene yet so short cut etc. are currently off the table and as I previously stated there are a lot of things I'm going to just say "you don't need to roll for that" and narrate thr outcome. BTW don't try to farm advantage and triumphs from me, if there is a meaningful roll to make (where success/failure is in question and it could make an impact on the story) then and only then will I call for a roll

Not t trying to. Mychal’el had already called for that Mechanics check, and it was rolled before you took over, the results of which were:

Mechanics : 3eP+4eD 0 successes, 2 advantage

So S3 hadn’t got the tracker off just yet. He needs to make a second attempt to remove it and I want to use those two Advantages to give him two boost dice on that second attempt next round.

As for the Jedi Star ’s stats, those can be found here . The listed sensor range is Medium. According to the sidebar on page 233 of the F&D core book:

sensors operate in two modes: passive and active. Sensors operating in passive mode operate at low power and see everything around the ship up to their maximum listed range band. Using sensors in passive mode requires no skill check as they are largely automatic and are relaying the minimum amount of data their programming provides. Sensors operating in active mode are more powerful and focused, however.

When operating in active mode, sensors can see one range band farther than their listed maximum range, but can only see in one of the ship’s firing arcs.

The Jedi Star has the stock YZ-900 listed maximum sensor range of Medium , which is pretty standard for Silhouette 4 and smaller Silhouette 5 transports and freighters. By RAW, that is for passive mode. A TIE/LN has a listed maximum sensor range of close (F&D page 262) . Thus , even using the Jedi Star ’s sensors in passive mode, I have a longer sensor range than a TIE fighter using its sensors in active mode. That is by RAW. So yes, I can see them well before they see me, and why it’s so important to get that tracker off the hull before anything. Once I do get it off the hull, I plan on using it as a decoy to trick them into following it while I head in a completely different direction. This means, after I actually get the tracker off the hull, I need to at least get out to Medium range from them and then ditch the tracker, either in the ocean or onto a passing fish or aiwha, before I head off in another direction completely, using my Short Cut talents and further uses of the three Full Throttle talents, in order to lose pursuit completely as per the chase rules. But that’s going to require some fancy flying, and a bit of some more help from the Force ( Enhance with the Piloting Space control upgrade to boost my piloting rolls).

4 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Not t trying to. Mychal’el had already called for that Mechanics check, and it was rolled before you took over, the results of which were:

Mechanics : 3eP+4eD 0 successes, 2 advantage

So S3 hadn’t got the tracker off just yet. He needs to make a second attempt to remove it and I want to use those two Advantages to give him two boost dice on that second attempt next round.

As for the Jedi Star ’s stats, those can be found here . The listed sensor range is Medium. According to the sidebar on page 233 of the F&D core book:

The Jedi Star has the stock YZ-900 listed maximum sensor range of Medium , which is pretty standard for Silhouette 4 and smaller Silhouette 5 transports and freighters. By RAW, that is for passive mode. A TIE/LN has a listed maximum sensor range of close (F&D page 262) . Thus , even using the Jedi Star ’s sensors in passive mode, I have a longer sensor range than a TIE fighter using its sensors in active mode. That is by RAW. So yes, I can see them well before they see me, and why it’s so important to get that tracker off the hull before anything. Once I do get it off the hull, I plan on using it as a decoy to trick them into following it while I head in a completely different direction. This means, after I actually get the tracker off the hull, I need to at least get out to Medium range from them and then ditch the tracker, either in the ocean or onto a passing fish or aiwha, before I head off in another direction completely, using my Short Cut talents and further uses of the three Full Throttle talents, in order to lose pursuit completely as per the chase rules. But that’s going to require some fancy flying, and a bit of some more help from the Force ( Enhance with the Piloting Space control upgrade to boost my piloting rolls).

1 conflict

And my ruling on sensors and short cut stands

Also, if you're just going to continue to roll mechanics checks until you remove the tracker there's no point in rolling at all. I've already ruled that s3 can/did remove the tracker, it took 2 rounds flying at speed 3, and the 4 ties caught up to you just as s3 came back in the hatch. This is the point in time at which Korath resides. What do you do.