Agreed. I'm just participating.

Earlier, there was a lot of indignation that IA may not be compatible with Legion. No doubt, other posters will voice the same opinion later on. From my POV, this reaction may be natural in a way. But it isn't very well thought out because there is no logical reason to assume Legion and IA should be compatible.

And if FFGreally does have limited distribution rights for IA because of a licensing dispute with Hasbro then there is a end-of, full-stop argument against compatibility.

I'm pretty sure they can get away with releasing a pack of cards and bases to make the relevant models playable.

Can you explain why they would do that without it boiling down to "catering to me"?

I already have 2-4 boxes of every unit from Imperial Asssault painted so if they had made the miniatures the same size I would have instantly purchased a couple of starter sets and 2+ copies of each expansion packs from the first wave. That would have given me a nice starter Army and I would have purchased new items each release Wave and brought over Imperial Assault models to bulk them out slightly as I went. With the models being so very slightly off just to stop people bringing them over it has removed all interest I have in the game as it will double my cost to get into the new game and add a whole lot more painting. I am not asking to get a whole new game for free and I would have happily paid for starters and expansions, just that the scales are so similar as to not effect gameplay but so different as to remove use of existing models that gets to me. They have lost a lot more from my by blocking IA models and having my not join Legion than having me join Legion but by slightly fewer duplicate expansions as I have existing models.

if this has been a 5-15mm game then I wouldn't have had a problem as the miniature size difference will have a massive effect on game play and would have been all in and happy to paint but this scale difference is just too minor.

A miniature wargame survives by having a wide player base. Bringing across all the Imperial Assault players would have really given it a good established starting point, potentially alienating does the opposite.

Buying a couple of core sets and 2+ of each expansion will give you "a nice starter army" (arguably better than just a starter army) for Legion without any consideration of IA figs. So why is IA compatibility a deal breaker? Also, why are you assuming your IA figs would be suitable to "bulk out" a Legion army? It's a different game with different figure requirements.

Moreover, your IA stuff, which you bought for IA, still works fine in IA. You have literally lost nothing.

On the other hand, I have zero IA mini's and are ready to pick this up just for the better looking models. Your personal preference =/= the market as a whole.

I think these forums prove beyond a doubt to any sensate individual that the market as a whole may have a problem collecting two sets of the same miniatures, slightly different in scale. If someone's not putting that 2 and 2 together, I don't however see the point in a long debate with them.

I'm with OP on this, the fact that I have absolutely loads of SW miniatures from FFG already, and they want to sell the same figures again for a different game is incredibly annoying to me.

I understand they don't care about me, they care about all the people lining up to thrown money at them for this. and the already have my Money from all the AI expansions I bought anyway.

But i feel $90 for comparatively much less stuff you get in the IA core for a start, is pretty poor value, my feeling on this is buy the core box, sell the bigger minis to try and get all the rules and game-play stuff at at reasonable price, then print out the cards for the units as they appear online and play the game with my mates using the IA minis.

You know, I didn't really care or consider an IA cross-over, but I do kinda want some of the characters from Imperial Assault as commanders now <.< I would kill for Venera Talos...

If we are lucky and FFG is smart we will get a conversion kit with a card for Venera Talos.

So much entitlement in this thread...

Im with the OP. I have a bunch of IA minis. If the scale was the same I could use those minis, plus the figures in the starter pack. This would have been an instant buy for me. Future IA expansions could have had cards for Legion, hooking more players into legion. Figures for Legion could have been reused for IA, expanding IA. The synergies would have been fantastic.

If the mini's arent the same scale, for no good reason that I can see, I have to wonder what sort of support I am getting for IA. And I dont have the time to repaint the minis. So the net effect of this announcement is to stop me purchasing Legion, and to stop me buying any more IA.

I had the same purchasing dilemma with blu ray and HD DVD. the two formats for the same thing caused me to not buy either. eventually Blu Ray won but not without a massive overall drop in the home video market.

"Imperial Assault and Legion (insert current favorite complaint)." Yet everyone likes to blatantly ignore the fact that Imperial Assault is owned by Hasbro , not FFG. Hasbro simply outsourced their miniatures game idea to FFG, in the same way that Hasbro outsourced their previous miniatures game to Wizards of the Coast. Hasbro owns most of the merchandising rights for Star Wars, and they control what Star Wars merchandise gets made and sold.

Just like AT-43 was the property of Rackham, and only being sold through FFG. Just like the Warhammer and Warhammer 40K card games, as well as the Talisman board game, are the property of Games Workshop, simply outsourced to FFG. Even the XCOM and Civilization board games are owned by Firaxis, not FFG. Witcher, CD Red Projekt. Fallout, Bethesda.

To have Legion compatible with Imperial Assault opens up a legal can of worms, that in the best case ends up with profits being split between FFG and Hasbro, causing the price to be higher for the product . Looking at Imperial Assault and Legion prices, Legion core set is 10% cheaper and appears to be solely owned by FFG without Hasbro involvement. That means no "overseer" dictating what expansions FFG can make and release, no profit sharing causing prices to rise, no restrictions on who can sell the product.

In the worst case, you end up with lawsuits, hostile property holders that inhibit development and expansion, and eventually cause product lines to die.

Do you all want to create a legal battle between FFG and Hasbro just to soothe your egos? If you answer yes, then you will be responsible for when both Imperial Assault and Legion die because the expensive legal battle consumes all the profits that would have been used to continue expanding both lines.
WotC and Hasbro had a legal falling out when WotC dropped Star Wars that ended with the previous Star Wars miniatures and Starships Battles games to die, tournament scene ceased to exist overnight, and most of the player base liquidated their entire collections in frustration caused by the legal issues between WotC and Hasbro over the Star Wars license.

Anyone else remember how fast FFG had to drop the Warhammer and Warhammer 40K card games? FFG wasn't even allowed to finish selling off their inventory and had to give their inventory to Games Workshop. That is the kind of threat that looms over Imperial Assault with it being owned by Hasbro. Hasbro could simply say, "We are done with you, hand over everything you still have," and FFG would have to comply, while this community watches Imperial Assault instantly die. No amount of complaining would be able to change that.

This is about the barrier to entry. not my ego.

The exact terms of the licensing deals are not public. thinking you have any knowledge other than hearsay is silly.

1. You don't have to paint the miniatures for either game. It's not a requirement for tournament play, and it's obviously not a requirement for casual play.

2. Maybe people will buy this game specifically because they want to paint more minis, and that's just another part of the hobby to them.

3. There is no compatibility, nor will there ever be. This is its own game, which will attract its own players and FFG will want to make sure they can lock in sales of Legion product.

4. You don't need to purchase it, enjoy IA, it's a pretty great game. Can't wait for the gorram app!

do you work for FFG? do you have inside information? then how do you know there will never be compatibility?

On 8/20/2017 at 1:54 AM, TylerTT said:

do you work for FFG? do you have inside information? then how do you know there will never be compatibility?

They are different games, and we've seen a lot of gameplay and how list building works. There is no overlap.

At best, you could use some of your IA minis in a casual setting. Otherwise, there are no similarities between the games.

This is objective fact -- watch the Alex Davy demo.

On 8/19/2017 at 8:56 PM, TylerTT said:

If we are lucky and FFG is smart we will get a conversion kit with a card for Venera Talos.

If they are smart we will get a new model with better details.

Lets be real the IA models are kinda trashy and entry level.

On 20.08.2017 at 4:50 AM, dkw said:

"Imperial Assault and Legion (insert current favorite complaint)." Yet everyone likes to blatantly ignore the fact that Imperial Assault is owned by Hasbro , not FFG. Hasbro simply outsourced their miniatures game idea to FFG, in the same way that Hasbro outsourced their previous miniatures game to Wizards of the Coast. Hasbro owns most of the merchandising rights for Star Wars, and they control what Star Wars merchandise gets made and sold.

Just like AT-43 was the property of Rackham, and only being sold through FFG. Just like the Warhammer and Warhammer 40K card games, as well as the Talisman board game, are the property of Games Workshop, simply outsourced to FFG. Even the XCOM and Civilization board games are owned by Firaxis, not FFG. Witcher, CD Red Projekt. Fallout, Bethesda.

To have Legion compatible with Imperial Assault opens up a legal can of worms, that in the best case ends up with profits being split between FFG and Hasbro, causing the price to be higher for the product . Looking at Imperial Assault and Legion prices, Legion core set is 10% cheaper and appears to be solely owned by FFG without Hasbro involvement. That means no "overseer" dictating what expansions FFG can make and release, no profit sharing causing prices to rise, no restrictions on who can sell the product.

In the worst case, you end up with lawsuits, hostile property holders that inhibit development and expansion, and eventually cause product lines to die.

Do you all want to create a legal battle between FFG and Hasbro just to soothe your egos? If you answer yes, then you will be responsible for when both Imperial Assault and Legion die because the expensive legal battle consumes all the profits that would have been used to continue expanding both lines.
WotC and Hasbro had a legal falling out when WotC dropped Star Wars that ended with the previous Star Wars miniatures and Starships Battles games to die, tournament scene ceased to exist overnight, and most of the player base liquidated their entire collections in frustration caused by the legal issues between WotC and Hasbro over the Star Wars license.

Anyone else remember how fast FFG had to drop the Warhammer and Warhammer 40K card games? FFG wasn't even allowed to finish selling off their inventory and had to give their inventory to Games Workshop. That is the kind of threat that looms over Imperial Assault with it being owned by Hasbro. Hasbro could simply say, "We are done with you, hand over everything you still have," and FFG would have to comply, while this community watches Imperial Assault instantly die. No amount of complaining would be able to change that.

You are making considerable leaps of logic for someone who evidently knows very little about how licensing, distribution and IP law works and can't possibly know anything about the details of FFG, LFL and Hasbro agreements.

So what's the problem of getting the Legion rule book, which will likely be put on the Legion page, and then using your vast IA collection to play Legion? If you were a part of my Legion community, I'd have no issue with that. Not only do you get to play IA, but with minimal investment you get to play Legion. The only thing you can't do is play Legion in a tournament with IA minis unless you have a super relaxed competitive scene.

On 8/19/2017 at 4:47 AM, Manchu said:

Can you explain why they would do that without it boiling down to "catering to me"?

Because now FFG has to maintain two sets of molds for every model present in both games. Had they kept the same scale they would only need a fraction of the molds - saving money on both storage and production costs for the molds, and time as the factory swaps molds.

8 minutes ago, Pyremius said:

Because now FFG has to maintain two sets of molds for every model present in both games. Had they kept the same scale they would only need a fraction of the molds - saving money on both storage and production costs for the molds, and time as the factory swaps molds.

Assuming there is some legal issues between Hasbro and FFG, I don't think FFG could reuse those molds because of IP that Hasbro holds over IA. It's the same reason the guys who made Armada terrain got shut down. They were recasting Armada ships to make an exact replica, and then making their own ships to sell.

It would be my guess that FFG is not allowed to use the same molds so they made them slightly bigger to avoid any IP problems Hasbro could throw at them.

That said, I know next to nothing about IA and Hasbro's and FFG's deal. I don't play IA. But if Hasbro does own IA, I can understand why FFG did this.

IA gets distributed through Hasbro because it is a boardgame and FFG does not hold the license for boardgames. They hold the licenses for miniature and card games. That is why you can't buy IA or rebellion from FFG directly.

I would not be surprised if FFG would end or severly cut back on the IA line if Legion becomes a big success. Right now they are making Hasbro money and i highly doubt that is in Asmodees interest.

On 8/19/2017 at 9:04 PM, TylerTT said:

I had the same purchasing dilemma with blu ray and HD DVD. the two formats for the same thing caused me to not buy either. eventually Blu Ray won but not without a massive overall drop in the home video market.

What does that even have to do with anything?

HD DVD and Bluray are two technologies that accomplished the same task being made by competing companies.

IA and Legion are games meant to fill very different niches made by the same company.

That makes about as much sense as citing the console war between Sega and Nintendo in the 90's as to why XWing outsells Armada.