@Tlfj200 I don't know about you, but I can tolerate small dips into the Extended pool provided most my games are more fair feeling Hyperspace outside those days. It's easy to get wrapped up into the mayhem if you let it, and then it gets miserable.

I realize you're one of those types that feels prefers to get multiple reps to practice, but I've found it unnecessary. Twice run a list to understand how it moves, a general level of how the opposing list works, and roll. You shouldn't need to endlessly practice it since these nasty net lists are rarely flown the same way by different players anyway.

EDIT: My point is I think you'll do just fine without staying in Extended when you do go to these big events.

7 minutes ago, powersink said:

but it seems like list building is more engaging... every point spent needs to serve a purpose, because the rest of my combo won't bail out my sub-optimal choices. Now looking at extended... there are so many auto=includes it seems like 1.0... (oh, i'm imps with 31pts... copty paste inquisitor).

Another 'bug' to most people that I think is a feature.

Edit: in that hyperspace building is hard, and that feels good.

6 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

@Tlfj200 I don't know about you, but I can tolerate small dips into the Extended pool provided most my games are more fair feeling Hyperspace outside those days. It's easy to get wrapped up into the mayhem if you let it, and then it gets miserable.

I realize you're one of those types that feels prefers to get multiple reps to practice, but I've found it unnecessary. Twice run a list to understand how it moves, a general level of how the opposing list works, and roll. You shouldn't need to endlessly practice it since these nasty net lists are rarely flown the same way by different players anyway.

Ironically, I rarely get reps with most things. I play waaaaaay less than people probably think. I dont have a regular game night, and may not play physical game all month, most months.

I had played that empire list maybe... 5 times? 7? before Krayt cup. I had literally zero reps with 5As - it was a complete hotswap the Friday night before.

But, relatedly, the most frustrating part for me (and a completely necessary and good-for-the-game part, but frustrating) is when I pick up a new list cold, and have to figure out how to do my initial setup. I'd prefer to just do trial-and-error, but my limited time rarely allows for it, and I find an incorrect setup is the easiest way for me to lose (speaking of my round 1 loss at unplugged...).

1 minute ago, Tlfj200 said:

Another 'bug' to most people that I think is a feature.

Ironically, I rarely get reps with most things. I play waaaaaay less than people probably think. I dont have a regular game night, and may not play physical game all month, most months.

I had played that empire list maybe... 5 times? 7? before Krayt cup. I had literally zero reps with 5As - it was a complete hotswap the Friday night before.

But, relatedly, the most frustrating part for me (and a completely necessary and good-for-the-game part, but frustrating) is when I pick up a new list cold, and have to figure out how to do my initial setup. I'd prefer to just do trial-and-error, but my limited time rarely allows for it, and I find an incorrect setup is the easiest way for me to lose (speaking of my round 1 loss at unplugged...).

Are you me?! I'm the same way. And that empire tie salad is the list i've been running. At first not having defenders, interceptors, and my other fave imp ships was why I was down on hyperspace... but that list (and variations) is so fun and different. Last hyperspace trial my vader moved last 5/6 games, and it was fun not just having a bid to guarantee moving first.

27 minutes ago, powersink said:

As someone who almost quit xwing when hyperspace was announced and my group switched to it, took six weeks off, and then gave it a try... hyperspace is the most fun i've ever had in x-wing. I'll be very sad if it goes away.

Today at ffg’s q and a, they said hyperspace will always be a rotating limited format, and will continue to be supported with tournaments as a true competitive format...so it’s not going away, and that I killer news!

36 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

The difference was my experience at unplugged - almost every extended game I played had a lot of unfun elements one one or both sides of the board.

I brought a 16 point bid, which auto-won me 3/5 games (and should have won me my first round game, but I literaly made a very, very massive mistake). The game I lost against Andrew Cox was a good game, but double quad jumpers was a massively unfun experience. Even one quad is an unfun experience.

Whereas at KraytCup, at the end of both days, for the first time in nearly 2 years, I still wanted to play another game of x-wing right after. This is separate from having fun with the people - the game was fun.

So my concern with extended is the sheer volume of things going on, and the (correct) attraction to removing agency. So far in hyperspace, agency seems REALLY preserved, while still promoting a surprising amount of playstyles.


One of the reasons I need a break from many x-wing social groups is the clear, [unsupported] assertions of things like 1) hyperspace is just a joust fest (it sure is if you don't know what you're doing, but spoiler - so is extended) and 2) the increased volume of 'combos' [that term can be a little loosey-goosey, and we can define it separately), and 3) hyperspace has been panning out to be surprisingly varied in squads and feel - it's not that extended can't also be, but man, taking empire for example, everything is almost all phantoms + stuff (or just + more phantoms). It's not wrong, but it's a little sad.

I want to say first of all...breaks are great, it’s a fun game but it in no means Needs to be a year round obsession. I balance it with a 60 hour job and a music hobby, (much better guitarist then x wing player lol) and I really don’t travel out of California for it(would like to but well life happens) my playgroup is all hyperspace so by all means I feel you on taking a break and how fun the hyperspace format is

but I have come to the conclusion that there is a “first points release” extended hangover that many competitive players are suffering from...there were hardly any releases(just the new trilogy stuff) and it was obviously not balanced

now though...we really don’t have any new data points for extended besides the Canada system open and this upcoming weekend...and Canada looked a lot like hyperspace I the top cut, also a lot of ships on the board

now of course there are still problems in extended and phantoms for sure are one...but we are getting another points update before worlds, and with the Trend of using points updates every 6 months, plus extended events are actually fewer and more far between now, I think that meta has a harder time of actually settling down into its most cancerous form...if that cancerous at all.

the way ffg have set up 2.0, extended will get a lot better, and I think it’s already way better then it was a few months ago

you probably understand all of this and don’t need me of all people to tell you but stay open, I might have been slipped something in my food as of recent but I see nothing but positive for the near future of the game, 2.0 really is set up to Be the best competitive table top game

1 minute ago, TheOz said:

but I have come to the conclusion that there is a “first points release” extended hangover that many competitive players are suffering from...there were hardly any releases(just the new trilogy stuff) and it was obviously not balanced

That's possible.

2 minutes ago, TheOz said:

now though...we really don’t have any new data points for extended besides the Canada system open and this upcoming weekend...and Canada looked a lot like hyperspace I the top cut, also a lot of ships on the board

There was a european SOS, but no fortress, so it's lost to the aether. 😞

3 minutes ago, TheOz said:

now of course there are still problems in extended and phantoms for sure are one...but we are getting another points update before worlds, and with the Trend of using points updates every 6 months, plus extended events are actually fewer and more far between now, so I think that meta has a harder time of actually settling down into its most cancerous form...if that cancerous at all.

I think with the way ffg have set up 2.0, extended will get a lot better, and I think it’s already way better then it was a few months ago

you probably understand all of this and don’t need me of all people to tell you but stay open, I might have been slipped something in my food as of recent but I see nothing but positive for the near future of the game, 2.0 really is set up to Be the best competitive table top game

I mean, yeah, but why I'm down is a multitude of factors:

1. I have one regional this season, because of how they were allocated.
2. I still want nothing to do with extended until July, and then it's merely a "let's see" - but the other news we saw from the panel is that the loudest voices won, so we'll see if they actually touch everyone's favorite movie ship, the phantom (which, honestly, is sad, because I actually, genuinely love the phantom, I just hate how dominant of a decision it is in extended, unlike decisions in hyperspace).
3. I do appreciate their [just now] reason for adjusting the ships in hyperspace, but it still feels really bad to drop it middle of the season. It feels really random.
4. The invites are very limited, and combined with my limited access to regionals, and no system opens, I feel "shut out" even at the opportunity. And worlds is/was the one event I anticipated going to each year, and genuinely looked forward to. Same for L5R worlds (I was unfortunately unable to attend L5R worlds last year).

You mix all of that up, and it took a lot of steam out of my upcoming regional, and then I just get to sit and stew until NOVA open (labor day weekend, end of August).

😕

11 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

I have one regional this season, because of how they were allocated.

Minor point compared to a lot of this discussion, but I see people keep using the word “allocate” to describe regionals this year and that implies a similar process to previous years where FFG approved/denied a kind of application process. when it was much more open this year. As far as I understand, if a place paid for and could host the minimum, they could get a kit. That was it.

Aren't Hyperspace Trials twice a year (unlike Regionals)?

2 minutes ago, AlexW said:

Minor point compared to a lot of this discussion, but I see people keep using the word “allocate” to describe regionals this year and that implies a similar process to previous years where FFG approved/denied a kind of application process. when it was much more open this year. As far as I understand, if a place paid for and could host the minimum, they could get a kit. That was it.

Wasn't there a second wave of trials as well later?

9 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

Wasn't there a second wave of trials as well later?

Yep.

14 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Aren't Hyperspace Trials twice a year (unlike Regionals)?

14 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

Wasn't there a second wave of trials as well later?

4 minutes ago, AlexW said:

Yep.

There are, but until I know where they are, it's hard to anticipate them.

Also, that doesn't really do much for the "gotta wait until July" issue (that's no one's fault, except FFG's weird selection and spread).

49 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

hyperspace building is hard, and that feels good.

^

Just now, Tlfj200 said:

There are, but until I know where they are, it's hard to anticipate them.

Also, that doesn't really do much for the "gotta wait until July" issue (that's no one's fault, except FFG's weird selection and spread).

No, it really wasn't meant to be much relief. Curiosity question on my part.

12 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

Also, that doesn't really do much for the "gotta wait until July" issue (that's no one's fault, except FFG's weird selection and spread).

Fair enough. FWIW, if you can somehow find your way to the Bay Area for GameScape SF's Hyperspace Trial on 4/13, I'll give you use of our guest bedroom!

35 minutes ago, AlexW said:

Minor point compared to a lot of this discussion, but I see people keep using the word “allocate” to describe regionals this year and that implies a similar process to previous years where FFG approved/denied a kind of application process. when it was much more open this year. As far as I understand, if a place paid for and could host the minimum, they could get a kit. That was it.

And apparently a few places that couldn't fit the minimum, and had no intention to.

8 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

No, it really wasn't meant to be much relief. Curiosity question on my part.

I know the stores in our area set their dates and discussed them amongst each other. What I’m not sure on is whether the application was at the same time and whether or not a store could host one each “set” or one per year. If it was one application process and could only be for one then FFG certainly had something to do with it spacing them out, but otherwise, people who want more need to encourage their FLGS who can to apply more since FFG can only assign them if they apply.

2 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

And apparently a few places that couldn't fit the minimum, and had no intention to.

Yeah, that too and we were surprised by one or two in our area that fit that category. But the kit wasn’t cheap so it’s a loss if they are getting less than half of that minimum (regardless of actual space).

In the end I just see a lot of people frustrated by how many are in their area (or not) but I don’t think as much of that rests with FFG since they did make them a lot more accessible than ever before.

18 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Fair enough. FWIW, if you can somehow find your way to the Bay Area for GameScape SF's Hyperspace Trial on 4/13, I'll give you use of our guest bedroom!

Man, that’s really tempting, but the timing won’t work.

...however, maybe next round...?

I’m pretty sure we’re going to have at least 2, if not more next round - I know 2 stores were pushed to fall.

Its sort of a matter of ‘when’ - July? Or November? That window is really broad 😕

1 hour ago, TheOz said:

Today at ffg’s q and a, they said hyperspace will always be a rotating limited format, and will continue to be supported with tournaments as a true competitive format...so it’s not going away, and that I killer news!

**** yes! I think a rotating, limited format is essential to the longevity of the game. I think FFG is right on in that regard.

14 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

Man, that’s really tempting, but the timing won’t work. ...however, maybe next round...?

As long as the room isn't otherwise occupied, it's yours, man. (And you would not believe the view of the Pacific.)

9 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

It seems to me like clouds are intended to encourage use of Formation Swarms or 6-8 ship lists. Thats a noble cause, but essentially removing 3 obstacles from the table is not how I imagined that would happen.

Every time I think I agree with this, I watch an ace at range 2 behind a gas cloud shrug off 70 red dice and have to reconsider.

3 minutes ago, svelok said:

Every time I think I agree with this, I watch an ace at range 2 behind a gas cloud shrug off 70 red dice and have to reconsider.

Your not the only one watching. Its gonna lead to a ton of cloud only games even though I personally have settled back to taking big rocks with any aces list. Need a way to own the board.

3 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Your not the only one watching. Its gonna lead to a ton of cloud only games even though I personally have settled back to taking big rocks with any aces list. Need a way to own the board.

"Everybody takes clouds" is probably incorrect but probably the status quo for a while

Well, not everybody even has clouds.

Ok, haven't done this in awhile. Lets take a second to breakdown the factions a bit.

Rebels:

• YYYYY
• YYUBB
• BBBB
• BBBBA
• XBUY
• XBBY
• BBBU
• XYX
• BBH
• XXH
• XBH
• XUH

Empire:

• VSVW
• JBBBB
• HIDWHA
• SHIWS
• VJBB
• VCVW
• SSSSH
• PPPPPW

Resistance:

• AAAAA
• AAAAAA
• XXA
• XAAX
• XXX
• BOB

First Order:

• TQST
• TKQ
• KQN
• KQS
• KQB
• KBSL
• TTT
• ZZZZZ

Scum:

• BFL
• BOL
• BGL
• FZZZ
• GZZZ
• FG+
• FOH
• FOZL
• GOZL

Republic:

• AAW
• AOW
• AOA
• AOL
• AOM
• 104*4
• AWJ
• OWJ
• OAAA
• OWL

Separatist:

• MVVVV
• DVVVV
• MGVVV
• DGVVV
• WVVVVV
• SVVVVVV
• WSVVVV
• VVVVVVVV
• MD
• WAT

B-Wings, Barrage Rockets, Vader Crew, Soontir, Guri, and the Bomb Rule Changes are all going to have immediate impacts on the game.
Jedi might be outlier good enough to be solid in any format ( I'm pretty sure Jedi are just every Ace put into a blender, there is not a single thing they can't do besides 1 forward ).
Separatists in my initial testing are absolutely built to joust and history shows us that things that joust get jousted in swiss. Only issue is that Aces lists can for the most part kinda also joust now so.... 🤔

2 hours ago, Tlfj200 said:

I do appreciate their [just now] reason for adjusting the ships in hyperspace, but it still feels really bad to drop it middle of the season. It feels really random.

I missed that, could anyone fill me in?