14 hours ago, LeMightyASP said:Does anyone know the exact list that Stephen Moore was flying? seems really interesting
Darth Vader (67)
Fire-Control System (2)
Maarek Stele (45)
Fire-Control System (2)
Zertik Strom (41)
Fire-Control System (2)
Tempest Squadron Pilot (36)
Fire-Control System (2)
Total: 197
The Tempest might gave been a Storm, I don't remember.
Edited by Cloaker15 hours ago, Smikies02 said:What is blocking?
Everyone knows there's no way to deal with higher ps ships. They just get out of your arc everytime.
That ye olde concept where you be degenerate as possible and deny your opponent actions?
52 minutes ago, Chumbalaya said:Poes mad
2 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:4. No idea as I haven't seen the results
13 people ended 5-0
I know only 3 lists for sure: Rey cova kaz, wedge 3 Bwings, sloane reaper and a mix of ties and interceptors
3 hours ago, Flurpy said:.....thats supposed to be a square. I just have shaky hands and poor hand eye coordination
You are fast becoming one of my favorite posters.
19 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:13 people ended 5-0
I know only 3 lists for sure: Rey cova kaz, wedge 3 Bwings, sloane reaper and a mix of ties and interceptors
Friend of mine went 5-0 on the Sunday with droids. I have no idea what the list was but I'm pretty sure there would have been many ships in it.
20 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:I know only 3 lists for sure: Rey cova kaz, wedge 3 Bwings, sloane reaper and a mix of ties and interceptors
I was told Extended would just be a rehash of last season.
I'm glad I didn't believe it.
3 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:I was told Extended would just be a rehash of last season.
I'm glad I didn't believe it.
Give it time...
People are trying out new things that fit in 200 pts. New counting drives people to try things. Those newly counted lists can be good, don't get me wrong, but most of the top tier meta stuff from previous points were barely changed. It may only be time until players revert back to what's more proven while a few added wrinkles of new lists hang around and prove worthwhile sticking with.
4 minutes ago, RStan said:most of the top tier meta stuff from previous points were barely changed
Not changed ≠ Not nerfed.
They nerfed them by buffing their direct counter. The problem with the ace-heavy meta wasn't the price of aces nearly as much as it was the price of generics. They could have nerfed the aces more, but that doesn't mean aces wouldn't have continued to dominate. The counter to arc dodgers is theoretically more arcs to dodge, but in practice you could never get enough arcs under the previous points, so the only counter was just better aces and deeper bids. Hence the Initiative and bidding wars in the first 2-3 seasons, and hence the major upset to extended with the last points adjustment.
Sear Swarm was the only significant swarm list in the last season because it was the only one that was costed (a bit too) affordably. Now that there are more options, ace players will have a harder time in general. If they're good, they'll still be good, but other options are now viable and I5+ isn't a mandatory list-building requirement.
Edited by ClassicalMoser28 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:I was told Extended would just be a rehash of last season.
I'm glad I didn't believe it.
I wasn't at either of these qualifiers, but I went to 3 of them last year. From my experience, either from exhaustion or a different mindset, lists in them were much more casual, so I personally won't be putting much stock into the extended qualifiers.
Edited by Smikies021 minute ago, Smikies02 said:I wasn't at either of these qualifiers, but I went to 3 of them last year. From my experience, either from exhaustion or a different mindset, lists were much more casual in them, so I personally won't be putting much stock into the extended qualifiers.
That's fair, but there were worlds-level players and top-tier lists from last season in the mix nonetheless. Surely 5-0 must mean something, even if not much.
5 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:That's fair, but there were worlds-level players and top-tier lists from last season in the mix nonetheless. Surely 5-0 must mean something, even if not much.
The Sunday at MK seemed mega chilled, seemed a lot of people flying either their favourite toys or experimenting after the serious business of Saturday.
4 hours ago, Cloaker said:Darth Vader (67)
Fire-Control System (2)Maarek Stele (45)
Fire-Control System (2)Zertik Strom (41)
Fire-Control System (2)Tempest Squadron Pilot (36)
Fire-Control System (2)
Total: 197
The Tempest might gave been a Storm, I don't remember.
My kind of list; well done lad, well done!
...now that tea was curious and lovely.
5 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:Vader, Duchess, Maarek mainly. Some Sabacc, Vermeil, Ved Foslo, and Countdown potentially as well.
Basically expected a lot of people to try Imp Ace Salad, but didn't expect it to work.
Swarm of Aces?
20 hours ago, Cloaker said:Removed
Edited by Bucknife
17 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:Not changed ≠ Not nerfed.
They nerfed them by buffing their direct counter. The problem with the ace-heavy meta wasn't the price of aces nearly as much as it was the price of generics. They could have nerfed the aces more, but that doesn't mean aces wouldn't have continued to dominate. The counter to arc dodgers is theoretically more arcs to dodge, but in practice you could never get enough arcs under the previous points, so the only counter was just better aces and deeper bids. Hence the Initiative and bidding wars in the first 2-3 seasons, and hence the major upset to extended with the last points adjustment.
Sear Swarm was the only significant swarm list in the last season because it was the only one that was costed (a bit too) affordably. Now that there are more options, ace players will have a harder time in general. If they're good, they'll still be good, but other options are now viable and I5+ isn't a mandatory list-building requirement.
Well put! A ship or pilot doesn't have to be changed to see a reduction in effectiveness. I really have nothing beyond that to add, this was well put. If only there were a shorter phrase to express that
More stuff on power creep, if anyone cares. Hearthstone has had some serious power creep problems over the past few years, on both sides of things - purposefully trying to tone things down for a year so things would "reset" to a more normal level, or more recently just apparently giving up and printing crazy stuff.
@Brunas What do you think about this?
QuoteOne interesting implication of power creep concerns buffs vs nerfs to cards. Buffs can never undo the damage caused by power creep, but may merely help other cards keep up with it. If anything, then, buffs can only cause or further Power Creep; never undo it. Nerfs, on the other hand, can combat this problem, which is a major reason they tend to be favored as design solutions
That seems very close to my points change argument:
QuoteBut bottom buffing is more problematic because the overall, long-term movement is towards a more volatile game. Top nerfing on the other hand constantly cuts back the potentially more volatile components.
1 minute ago, GreenDragoon said:
It's definitely true for card games, where buffing means reducing price to play, or buffing stats. I'm not convinced for X-Wing that we have the same problem in variable pricing, but if they did what they did last points update EVERY points update then I agree we'd eventually be creepin'.
That reminds me, I still need to go back and catch up on your very well put together argument. Sorry I got lost!
6 minutes ago, Brunas said:It's definitely true for card games, where buffing means reducing price to play, or buffing stats. I'm not convinced for X-Wing that we have the same problem in variable pricing, but if they did what they did last points update EVERY points update then I agree we'd eventually be creepin'.
Fair enough. I did change my opinion from "textbook power creep!!" to "eventually power creep in the long-term" myself.
38 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:Fair enough. I did change my opinion from "textbook power creep!!" to "eventually power creep in the long-term" myself.
But if all they do is nerf, aren't we just going to go through power regression (is that what it's called)?
Possibly to the point where no game ends at time? 🤔
Edited by Smikies0223 minutes ago, Smikies02 said:Possibly to the point where no game ends at time? 🤔
Time is an illusion, the game never ends.
24 minutes ago, Smikies02 said:But if all they do is nerf, aren't we just going to go through power regression (is that what it's called)?
Possibly to the point where no game ends at time? 🤔
Well, that depends on what you regress.
If you start pulling back on defensive mods but leave offense alone, you are going to get less powerful pieces but the average damage dealt per turn is going to go up, meaning more games are finished within the time limit.
I dunno, maybe the board is too big. I wonder if games finish faster if you cut playmat size by one-sixth.
6 minutes ago, Micanthropyre said:I dunno, maybe the board is too big. I wonder if games finish faster if you cut playmat size by one-sixth.
That’s right. Shrink the mat into a drag strip and force that joust to happen.
Manic laughter to follow when I stop coughing
3 minutes ago, LagJanson said:That’s right. Shrink the mat into a drag strip and force that joust to happen.
Manic laughter to follow when I stop coughing
Sure we can extrapolate it into a worst case scenario for memes thats fine.
Yes, a smaller mat would favor jousting lists more. Currently, in order to allow jousting lists to battle aces you need to have points set in such a way that you have 5+ ships in the joust, and games go to time. That isn't inherently a problem, but what if I told you that adjusting the play area slightly is just another lever to alter the game state. Losing the equivalent of what, a 2 straight from each edge is hardly forcing a joust, its instead limiting the space aces have to run away to.