3 hours ago, FlyingAnchors said:

40 after tax, probably.

Tax theory of value

Why does no one play Luke Wedge Han?

3 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Why does no one play Luke Wedge Han?

Because you have no bid vs other i6s, so you might as well fly Lando and pass second actions around like candy, Hence Lando/Wedge/Luke that is a good and been played, but its nothing super great.

3 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Why does no one play Luke Wedge Han?

Not a lot of force for a trip ace list

3 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Why does no one play Luke Wedge Han?

No bid, so other I6s have their way with them?

2 hours ago, MasterShake2 said:

Oh, we’re (collectively) still pointing and laughing at each other. Got it. Ha. Ha.

Maybe the generic efficiency zealots will win the January lottery and we’ll all be saved. 🤢

37 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Maybe the generic efficiency zealots will win the January lottery and we’ll all be saved. 🤢

While I agree with you that there are zealots, it's hard to say that generics (outside of CIS swarms) are keeping pace with high-initiative ships at the moment.

Doesn't mean they should be so dropped to be OP to "have their time in the sun" to make up for lost time, but doesn't mean it's currently okay.

What I think would be an interesting move for the developers in the next point update would be more love given to the higher level generics...they have always been the consistently underutilized pilots in the game, the generic i3’s and 4’s of the game...

perhaps besides making their cost even closer to the lowest I pilot..perhaps more can gain access to the talent slot? I know it’s not a huge deal but any of those pilots without the talent just make them seem extra pointless

idk just a random thought...it would be cool if mid level generics matter just as much as the cheapest ships or the aces

42 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

While I agree with you that there are zealots, it's hard to say that generics (outside of CIS swarms) are keeping pace with high-initiative ships at the moment.

Doesn't mean they should be so dropped to be OP to "have their time in the sun" to make up for lost time, but doesn't mean it's currently okay.

He might be referring to Fort Quad Phantom? Cant think of any other generics list that has stayed relevant for the duration of a point cycle. They almost always get solved and evolve towards different names in an effort to keep up. Sear Swarm is a good example where it started as the Ocho added Sear, dropped Sear, and just became Ensnare+. Rebel beef did the same thing starting with Leia+ generics before turning into the Wedge Cassian Braylen show.

My best guess is that cheaper Snapshot is the only real threat to become the next generics focused efficiency thing. It super wont just be Aces that are made to suffer in the process either.

11 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Why does no one play Luke Wedge Han?

This is sort of a serious answer, but built only from experience playing against this squad once or twice:

Luke and Wedge are primarily jousters. Han is an ace that likes to kite. If Han kites, Luke and Wedge get focused, so it's 200 vs 117. If Han engages, you're taking a bad jousting list. On top of this, there aren't any points left over for Han to take advantage of the endgame (in contrast to Han/Wedge or Han/Jake). He won't be extra squirrely or tough or punchy.

6 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

My best guess is that cheaper Snapshot is the only real threat to become the next generics focused efficiency thing. It super wont just be Aces that are made to suffer in the process either.

Yeah, we don't have a great history of "fixes" that "fix" things without hosing the little guy.

8 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

...Wedge [is] primarily [a] jouster...

In before this thread digresses with angry retorts...

13 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

In before this thread digresses with angry retorts...

It's easy to dodge arcs that are dead.

7 hours ago, Tlfj200 said:

While I agree with you that there are zealots, it's hard to say that generics (outside of CIS swarms) are keeping pace with high-initiative ships at the moment.

Doesn't mean they should be so dropped to be OP to "have their time in the sun" to make up for lost time, but doesn't mean it's currently okay.

I don't think I disagree.

6 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

He might be referring to Fort Quad Phantom?

I was really just doing my part to point and laugh at another segment of the community.

I think named pilots are cool, interesting and thematic. I'd like to see ace (not necessarily an ace, just mid-high init squad "leader") plus a bunch of generic squadmates be a pretty good thing and not default to more aces and/or support ship that makes that ace super acey. CIS has done that well. I think a squad of just generics is a snoozefest.

2 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I think named pilots are cool, interesting and thematic. I'd like to see ace (not necessarily an ace, just mid-high init squad "leader") plus a bunch of generic squadmates be a pretty good thing and not default to more aces and/or support ship that makes that ace super acey. CIS has done that well. I think a squad of just generics is a snoozefest.

Wait... are you calling Sear/Chertek swarm an "ace" swarm?

You're allowed, but it may be worth trying to have a definition party because... I'm not sure we all agree.

Is a howl swarm an ace swarm?

1 minute ago, Tlfj200 said:

Wait... are you calling Sear/Chertek swarm an "ace" swarm?

You're allowed, but it may be worth trying to have a definition party because... I'm not sure we all agree.

Is a howl swarm an ace swarm?

Not ace. Name squad leader plus their (unnamed in credits cuz they die fast) underlings. Like, a Jedi plus a bunch of generic torrents. Poe plus some generic T-70's and/or A-Wings. Kylo plus some FOs, etc.

Just now, gennataos said:

Not ace. Name squad leader plus their (unnamed in credits cuz they die fast) underlings. Like, a Jedi plus a bunch of generic torrents. Poe plus some generic T-70's and/or A-Wings. Kylo plus some FOs, etc.

I mean... you named an actual ace + swarm in every instance but the CIS scenario.

Again, you're allowed, but it feels like a reach to include the CIS swarms in the same groups as jedi + torrents, Poe + T70s, and Kylo + FOs.

One of of those things doesn't look like the others, is basically what I'm saying.


Rephrased - the CIS swarms functionally just look like an actual generic swarm, and they accidentally have a name in them as squad buffer. If Generic McDouble Dot was cheap enough to allow a hyena /w drk and a tac droid, I think sear would be airlocked in a heartbeat.

1 minute ago, Tlfj200 said:

I mean... you named an actual ace + swarm in every instance but the CIS scenario.

Again, you're allowed, but it feels like a reach to include the CIS swarms in the same groups as jedi + torrents, Poe + T70s, and Kylo + FOs.

One of of those things doesn't look like the others, is basically what I'm saying.


Rephrased - the CIS swarms functionally just look like an actual generic swarm, and they accidentally have a name in them as squad buffer. If Generic McDouble Dot was cheap enough to allow a hyena /w drk and a tac droid, I think sear would be airlocked in a heartbeat.

Okay, I guess I'm wrong? Does Sun Fac + 6 count? The point was a named leader and their lackeys.

4 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Okay, I guess I'm wrong? Does Sun Fac + 6 count? The point was a named leader and their lackeys.

That’s probably closer to form? The nantex allowed for a different swarm altogether.

the belly rub swarms though might as well not have names, but that’s me. But I also don’t consider howl swarms a ‘named’ swarm, but functionally a generic swarm, despite them basically being entirely consisting of names pilots. So that’s why I mean that I’m not sure we’re all using the same definitions, is all.

6 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Okay, I guess I'm wrong? Does Sun Fac + 6 count? The point was a named leader and their lackeys.

One man's opinion, but Sun Fac+6 seems like a squad centered on Sun Fac (you beat it by killing Sun Fac). Sear Swarm seems like a squad centered on droids (you beat it by killing droids). Aesthetically they look a lot alike but I think they play differently.

By the way, as a scientist, I'm all in on definition parties.

3 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

That’s probably closer to form? The nantex allowed for a different swarm altogether.

the belly rub swarms though might as well not have names, but that’s me. But I also don’t consider howl swarms a ‘named’ swarm, but functionally a generic swarm, despite them basically being entirely consisting of names pilots. So that’s why I mean that I’m not sure we’re all using the same definitions, is all.

Nah, that makes sense. I guess the Sear swarm is more like the Sinker and Howl swarms, which I'm infinitely less interested in.

So, yeah, actual ace + lackeys is what I'd like to be a thing, which isn't just improved by more aces or "do something cool" support.

12 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Why does no one play Luke Wedge Han?

It shows up a lot more than you'd expect. It's not always those three exact ships, but pick two of Luke/Wedge/Braylen and either Lando or Han is a pretty common occurrence.

33 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

It's easy to dodge arcs that are dead.

T R U E

R

U

E

also hi dale

13 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I don't think I disagree.

I was really just doing my part to point and laugh at another segment of the community.

I think named pilots are cool, interesting and thematic. I'd like to see ace (not necessarily an ace, just mid-high init squad "leader") plus a bunch of generic squadmates be a pretty good thing and not default to more aces and/or support ship that makes that ace super acey. CIS has done that well. I think a squad of just generics is a snoozefest.

Just now, gennataos said:

Okay, I guess I'm wrong? Does Sun Fac + 6 count? The point was a named leader and their lackeys.

15 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Nah, that makes sense. I guess the Sear swarm is more like the Sinker and Howl swarms, which I'm infinitely less interested in.

So, yeah, actual ace + lackeys is what I'd like to be a thing, which isn't just improved by more aces or "do something cool" support.

Oh, I thought what you meant was "wouldn't it be cool if like scorch, longshot, and a bunch of FOs wasn't complete ***". But it looks like you mean more of stuff like "Soontir and a bunch of academies"? It could be both (or neither), of course.

1 minute ago, Brunas said:

But it looks like you mean more of stuff like "Soontir and a bunch of academies"?

Yeah, that.

56 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I think named pilots are cool, interesting and thematic. I'd like to see ace (not necessarily an ace, just mid-high init squad "leader") plus a bunch of generic squadmates be a pretty good thing and not default to more aces and/or support ship that makes that ace super acey.

ace + squad squad gang gang