Aren't juke flat worse than a focus tho?

Like. The way to make juke viable on a ship that gets one action is make it negative points or give ship another action. Juke is a trap card.

So, the evade action on a single action ship is only valid if you have less than three agility...

You guys on that train, or am I still off?

8 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

So, the evade action on a single action ship is only valid if you have less than three agility...

You guys on that train, or am I still off?

Nah, I use evades all the time on Tie Fighters because guaranteed evade results pretty frequently let you manipulate MOV.

1 minute ago, Boom Owl said:

Nah, I use evades all the time on Tie Fighters because automatic evade results pretty frequently lets you manipulate MOV.

Okay. I can buy that.

Mostly, I'm an RZ2 player that is frustrated that my only strategy is Focus.

Good players actually know when to evade.

22 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

“Good” players actually know when to evade.

FTFY. Just go mess with gateofstorms. Evade is a pretty good strategy in alot of situations.

Shout out to X-wing 2.0, the only version of X-wing to exist in 2 decades.

26 minutes ago, FlyingAnchors said:

Shout out to X-wing 2.0, the only version of X-wing to exist in 2 decades.

Simultaneously

5 hours ago, Brunas said:

What is with everyone's crazy obsession with juke being too expensive for ships that don't naturally generate evades? Go back and count how often it's used, even at it's original price, on any "normal" ship.

Juke should be expensive since there's no bigger trap card than Juke. FFG should try to psychology folks out of using Juke on non-free-evade ships.

6 hours ago, Transmogrifier said:

What non-'free evade' ship do you want to run Juke on?

Mauler, who's been lowkey great since the advent of the game. Give me a guaranteed evade and a quasi crackshot that doesn't require me to spend my action barrel rolling to line up the bullseye. There is no ship that is a greater case of living and dying by dice, so getting two guarantees out of the deal is worth the consideration over a focus token. I wouldn't spend more than three points on it though.

1 hour ago, Boom Owl said:

Nah, I use evades all the time on Tie Fighters because guaranteed evade results pretty frequently let you manipulate MOV.

White evade is very good for this purpose. Heck, situationally, purple evade is really good for this purpose. If I have a CLT Jedi clinching the match, I will purple evade every turn that I do not need the reposition actions (typically in matches against 2 agi shots). Purple evade is good.

13 hours ago, jagsba said:

Aren't juke flat worse than a focus tho?

Yes, but. In defense of Juke, it doesn't spend the Evade, while using a Focus token does. There is a benefit to Juke on high-init ships who can attack before they get shot, to get double-duty as both a weaker offensive action, and a comparable defensive action. However, making Juke affordable for those niche cases where it's OK but not abusive just isn't worth it. It'd take a frustrating spreadsheet for the prices, or else truly unplayable prices for non-Juke Phantoms, and I still think it's worth preventing excessive Juke Jank attempts.

Like, folks shouldn't put Juke on an ARC or whatever. Sure, you could use Jyn Erso or Lando to get the Evade tokens, but the result is just going to be bad, and I'd rather take the razor out of the toybox and maybe even just delete Juke, than let folks have a really miserable day trying to make Juke work where Juke isn't going to work.

There's enough ways to have silly fun in X-Wing that don't involve bad Juke decisions.

Just saying, it's not that the free token has to be the evade. Any ship with access to focus and evade can take Juke. Especially rebels should be able to get that often enough.

On today's episode of Ships No One Cares About For Some Reason...the Tie Advanced x1. This has to be the least talked about bad ship in the game.

• Tempest Squad (i2) = 38 pts 😡
• Storm Squad (i4) = 40 pts 😡
• Zerik Strom (i3) = 42 pts 😡
• Ved Foslo (i4) = 45 pts 😡
• Maarek Stele (i5) = 46 pts 😡

I own 5 of them because they are cool especially with Prockets/Burners but they are still bad which is sad.

• Are they not as terrible as I am pretty sure they are?
• How much "should" the not-vader versions cost?
• What Upgrade Slot would you add to "fix" them?
• What should a new Title do besides "Something Something you have 3 attack dice now"?
• Was Passive Sensors supposed to be the x1 fix because Target Lock is a Biased action?
• Do they pay a Jendon Tax?
• Maarek, Rex, or Thane. Which of these is the most fun NPE?

52 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

On today's episode of Ships No One Cares About For Some Reason...the Tie Advanced x1. This has to be the least talked about bad ship in the game.

• Tempest Squad (i2) = 38 pts 😡
• Storm Squad (i4) = 40 pts 😡
• Zerik Strom (i3) = 42 pts 😡
• Ved Foslo (i4) = 45 pts 😡
• Maarek Stele (i5) = 46 pts 😡

I own 5 of them because they are cool especially with Prockets/Burners but they are still bad which is sad.

• Are they not as terrible as I am pretty sure they are?
• How much "should" the not-vader versions cost?
• What Upgrade Slot would you add to "fix" them?
• What should a new Title do besides "Something Something you have 3 attack dice now"?
• Was Passive Sensors supposed to be the x1 fix because Target Lock is a Biased action?
• Do they pay a Jendon Tax?
• Maarek, Rex, or Thane. Which of these is the most fun NPE?

I cried when Passive Tempests were 41

1 hour ago, Boom Owl said:

On today's episode of Ships No One Cares About For Some Reason...the Tie Advanced x1. This has to be the least talked about bad ship in the game.

• Tempest Squad (i2) = 38 pts 😡
• Storm Squad (i4) = 40 pts 😡
• Zerik Strom (i3) = 42 pts 😡
• Ved Foslo (i4) = 45 pts 😡
• Maarek Stele (i5) = 46 pts 😡

I own 5 of them because they are cool especially with Prockets/Burners but they are still bad which is sad.

• Are they not as terrible as I am pretty sure they are?
• How much "should" the not-vader versions cost?
• What Upgrade Slot would you add to "fix" them?
• What should a new Title do besides "Something Something you have 3 attack dice now"?
• Was Passive Sensors supposed to be the x1 fix because Target Lock is a Biased action?
• Do they pay a Jendon Tax?
• Maarek, Rex, or Thane. Which of these is the most fun NPE?

I unironically fly more Maarek than Vader. Vader really wants fcs, but then you might want to bid against other I6's. I'm still trying to get used to the correct empire bid, so I don't bother. Vader is better, but Maarek lets me count to 200 comfortably, very important with Rex. Both at I5 and doing absolutely degenerate stuff to the damage deck are important. Thus, even when I am moving last, passive carries immense value. Crackshot synergy is fun.

Rex's chassis is most fun, Maarek's ability is most fun, and Thane shooting at a Fireball is most fun indeed.

Now without Palp, they suffer the E Wing problem: no force on a lock-heavy 3 agi craft is not tanky. If you're not taking Palp, take Composure + Afterburner: 2 free white focus actions for 7 pts is pretty good, especially given that the X1 is rather inexpensive (not inexpensive enough, but still inexpensive. I'd like to see Maarek and Duchess swap prices). You can do without if you're building to absolute efficiency (like that 5 I5 list, Vader + 3, or 5 + passive/fcs), but then you'll have to resign to more variance (the boon and bane of efficiency lists).

My title would turn off ATC and assign OG Accuracy Corrector.

15 hours ago, jagsba said:

Aren't juke flat worse than a focus tho?

15 hours ago, jagsba said:

Like. The way to make juke viable on a ship that gets one action is make it negative points or give ship another action. Juke is a trap card.

Yeah, this to both. Sorry to bother respond to some long/thought out posts, but the tldr for juke is that in almost all cases, having a focus is better damage (for low initiative). For high initiative, having a focus is also more damage but you can fall into the "but you don't have to spend the evade" trap. But, you generally paying 60+ points for a ship with no passive mods that is unwilling to spend mods on offense is a bad idea.

1 hour ago, Boom Owl said:

On today's episode of Ships No One Cares About For Some Reason...the Tie Advanced x1. This has to be the least talked about bad ship in the game.

• Tempest Squad (i2) = 38 pts 😡
• Storm Squad (i4) = 40 pts 😡
• Zerik Strom (i3) = 42 pts 😡
• Ved Foslo (i4) = 45 pts 😡
• Maarek Stele (i5) = 46 pts 😡

I own 5 of them because they are cool especially with Prockets/Burners but they are still bad which is sad.

• Are they not as terrible as I am pretty sure they are?
• How much "should" the not-vader versions cost?
• What Upgrade Slot would you add to "fix" them?
• What should a new Title do besides "Something Something you have 3 attack dice now"?
• Was Passive Sensors supposed to be the x1 fix because Target Lock is a Biased action?
• Do they pay a Jendon Tax?
• Maarek, Rex, or Thane. Which of these is the most fun NPE?

F

1 hour ago, Boom Owl said:

On today's episode of Ships No One Cares About For Some Reason...the Tie Advanced x1. This has to be the least talked about bad ship in the game.

• Tempest Squad (i2) = 38 pts 😡
• Storm Squad (i4) = 40 pts 😡
• Zerik Strom (i3) = 42 pts 😡
• Ved Foslo (i4) = 45 pts 😡
• Maarek Stele (i5) = 46 pts 😡

I own 5 of them because they are cool especially with Prockets/Burners but they are still bad which is sad.

• Are they not as terrible as I am pretty sure they are?
• How much "should" the not-vader versions cost?
• What Upgrade Slot would you add to "fix" them?
• What should a new Title do besides "Something Something you have 3 attack dice now"?
• Was Passive Sensors supposed to be the x1 fix because Target Lock is a Biased action?
• Do they pay a Jendon Tax?
• Maarek, Rex, or Thane. Which of these is the most fun NPE?

The problem is the designers seem to view x1s as 3 dice ships, but they are in reality a lot more like 2 dice ships, so x1s, at low initiative at least, share more in common with A-wings than X-wings. They sometimes get 3 dice, but it's a pretty limited set of circumstances. Look at Tempests vs Khiraxzs for 38 points. Khiraxzs are bad, and laughably better than tempests.

3 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

Just saying, it's not that the free token has to be the evade. Any ship with access to focus and evade can take Juke. Especially rebels should be able to get that often enough.

Three Juke E-Wings with Lock, against a 2 green + focus opponent: 5.086 expected damage

Three E-Wings with Focus/Lock, a 2-green + focus opponent: 5.256 expected damage

Juke hits less hard, and makes you pay 21 points for the privilege.

1 hour ago, Biophysical said:

The problem is the designers seem to view x1s as 3 dice ships, but they are in reality a lot more like 2 dice ships, so x1s, at low initiative at least, share more in common with A-wings than X-wings. They sometimes get 3 dice, but it's a pretty limited set of circumstances. Look at Tempests vs Khiraxzs for 38 points. Khiraxzs are bad, and laughably better than tempests.

I mean, that's not wrong. But a TIE/x1 is basically a Scyk with an infinite missile, and a shield upgrade. The price doesn't seem too far off, considering.

3 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Three Juke E-Wings with Lock, against a 2 green + focus opponent: 5.086 expected damage

Three E-Wings with Focus/Lock, a 2-green + focus opponent: 5.256 expected damage

Juke hits less hard, and makes you pay 21 points for the privilege.

Sure. But why do you compare to the obviously superior focus lock?

Tossing a focus is an option for several (rebel) pilots, that was my point. Locks not 🤷🏻‍♂️

Why Stan juke of all cards? It's just bad on most ships and really good on a couple ships, like every other card. Just leave it be.

18 hours ago, jagsba said:

Aren't juke flat worse than a focus tho?

Yep. Only time you would really want Juke over focus is with that free evade, or perhaps a double tapping ship since its a mod that doesnt get spent and therefore used twice on attack. If you can guarantee a ship can't modify a eyeball result, then Juke is just slightly worse damage vs a focus, but you hold onto defense modifier. But you have to know a ship wont have a way to modify which in this day and age with force and token passing, etc. is never a guarantee.

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

Three Juke E-Wings with Lock, against a 2 green + focus opponent: 5.086 expected damage

Three E-Wings with Focus/Lock, a 2-green + focus opponent: 5.256 expected damage

Juke hits less hard, and makes you pay 21 points for the privilege.

I mean, that's not wrong. But a TIE/x1 is basically a Scyk with an infinite missile, and a shield upgrade. The price doesn't seem too far off, considering.

I will just add this as well, as I posted it on another thread for Juke FCS Ewings:

3 attack dice with juke and 1 reroll = 1.93 expected hits

vs 2 green dice with a focus = .86 expected hits

vs 2 green dice without a focus = 1.8 expected hits

3 attack dice with focus and 1 reroll = 2.68 expected hits

vs 2 green dice with a focus = 1.45 expect hits

vs 2 green dice without a focus = 1.94 expected hits