1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

Is Fanatical the best Talent in the game right now?

Almost feels like it is.

Not saying First Order is the best faction, but Fanatical seems real good.

I'm just hoping in episode 9 they make a big deal about how the new first order ship has no shields.

Then the forum arguments about how to cost fanatical will be glorious.

I think the more you look at Hyperspace the harder it is to predict how First Order will do.

Pros:

• Potentially more Tie Swarm is interesting, thats a decent matchup for Mr. Tavson and Kylo.
• Potentially Less Anakin helps Kylo out a good deal. Not getting init killed is helpful.

Cons:

• Potentially Less Beef is not ideal. FO was excellent for Hyperspace pre-pts change because Tavson was hungry for the easy beef matchups.
• Potentially More Aces ( Specifically Vader/Soontir/Jedi/Fenn/Guri/Boba) is bad news for First Order in general. As long as the Aces don't 100% joust they tend to bully Tavson & Quickdraw.
  • If there are more Ace Lists, FO can kinda adapt but doesn't run Aces better than other factions, just differently I guess.

So on net...im still excited to use First Order in season 2 of trials. Im not sure where things land. Is this what balance feels like? I think so and its fun. The faction seems totally fine for hyperspace.

Big 🤔 trying to figure out if Corran is good or not... kneejerk "this was good in 1.0" aside I'm tempted to say no... assuming shields and hull are basically the same thing, he's got the exact same statline as Kylo and Blackout. Kylo for sure is good. Blackout is good IMO, but I haven't seen him used much. I like this comparison even more when you consider all three abilities are basically irrelevant. Corran's is maybe worth a couple points but it's not great. Blackout maybe a point or two.

So Corran pays 3 more points than Blackout to have no double reposition and really bad linked actions. And a worse dial (I guess that can be fixed with R4 Astro?). Not digging it.

Advanced Sensors Corran costs the same as Kylo. Force points and double repo vs single repo but you can't block me but then I have no mods... 🤔

Advanced Sensors seems good on him. R4 is probably stapled on there but I guess R2D2 is also cool if you don't mind not doing 1 turns. Afterburners could be cool. Sort of double reposition twice per game (I said "sort of" because boost has to be first).

I guess my end result of all of this is that E-Wings are less cool Silencers... they also seem like less cool StarVipers when you go through a similar Corran to Guri comparison. Oh well. Unironically it's one of my favorite models so I'll probably try it but I still don't believe.

6 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

I think the more you look at Hyperspace the harder it is to predict how First Order will do.

Pros:

• Potentially more Tie Swarm is interesting, thats a decent matchup for Mr. Tavson and Kylo.
• Potentially Less Anakin helps Kylo out a good deal. Not getting init killed is helpful.

Cons:

• Potentially Less Beef is not ideal. FO was excellent for Hyperspace pre-pts change because Tavson was hungry for the easy beef matchups.
• Potentially More Aces ( Specifically Vader/Soontir/Jedi/Fenn/Guri/Boba) is bad news for First Order in general. As long as the Aces don't 100% joust they tend to bully Tavson & Quickdraw.
  • If there are more Ace Lists, FO can kinda adapt but doesn't run Aces better than other factions, just differently I guess.

So on net...im still excited to use First Order in season 2 of trials. Im not sure where things land. Is this what balance feels like? I think so and its fun. The faction seems totally fine for hyperspace.

There's a great and probably somewhat undercosted Backdraft ready to take tavson spot and leave some points to beef up QD now.

But I don't see why less Anakin, if anything we are entering into Anakin meta, he's crazy good

29 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

Big 🤔 trying to figure out if Corran is good or not... kneejerk "this was good in 1.0" aside I'm tempted to say no... assuming shields and hull are basically the same thing, he's got the exact same statline as Kylo and Blackout. Kylo for sure is good. Blackout is good IMO, but I haven't seen him used much. I like this comparison even more when you consider all three abilities are basically irrelevant. Corran's is maybe worth a couple points but it's not great. Blackout maybe a point or two.

So Corran pays 3 more points than Blackout to have no double reposition and really bad linked actions. And a worse dial (I guess that can be fixed with R4 Astro?). Not digging it.

Advanced Sensors Corran costs the same as Kylo. Force points and double repo vs single repo but you can't block me but then I have no mods... 🤔

Advanced Sensors seems good on him. R4 is probably stapled on there but I guess R2D2 is also cool if you don't mind not doing 1 turns. Afterburners could be cool. Sort of double reposition twice per game (I said "sort of" because boost has to be first).

I guess my end result of all of this is that E-Wings are less cool Silencers... they also seem like less cool StarVipers when you go through a similar Corran to Guri comparison. Oh well. Unironically it's one of my favorite models so I'll probably try it but I still don't believe.

what makes me mad about Corran and E-wing is their ****** linked action... WIthout even starting to rant about how 3 green ships need a linked focus, why did they gave him a linked that doesn't even work well with the ship ability?!?

Having said that, Corran is proved to be a good Han wingman with more than a top cut placement over 2 SoS. But is Han still good?

AS Corran hits like a wet noodle. I played like 30 games before switching to fcs, and I've never looked back. Ad I've definately got better results with it. Myfavorite build is FCS,R2 Astro, spare parts. Alongside a 112p Han I made Top8 in Bologna SoS and Top32 in Madrid SoS. A friend borrowed my list, added crackshot and went 6-0 in Madrid, losing in the Top8.

Will that Corran work after the points adjustments? I think depends on wether fat Han works or not after the ID nerf...

4 hours ago, Kieransi said:

I guess my end result of all of this is that E-Wings are less cool Silencers... they also seem like less cool StarVipers when you go through a similar Corran to Guri comparison.

See, I think the exact opposite for the same reason. E-Wings are the cool version of those ships that play fair and have drawbacks for the upsides. (Although, I hate the existence of R4 astromech, but at least there's compelling opportunity cost for the slot.)

Which isn't to disagree with the assessment that Corran is overpriced while Kylo/Guri are good. I just like the design. Corran is suffering from "priced as if he can carry a list like he could in 1.0" syndrome, like a lot of ships.

4 hours ago, Kieransi said:

So Corran pays 3 more points than Blackout to have no double reposition and really bad linked actions.

Corran didn't get cheaper this update, but the generics did. Sadly generics have to be super, super aggressively priced to be good, but the points scaling on E-Wings is now bizarre and the named pilots seem way worse than the generics. Knaves for 52 seems within a few points of correct?

The devs do have to play it cautious with Corran because i5 double modded torps with advanced sensor reposition and high durability were already a problem once.

I've flown a bit of Corran ... and he needs a wingman that can give him a focus or a reposition to thrive...I've used both AP-5 or Jake to do action passing.

My hardest decision is always whether to R2/R3/R4 ... all are great and valuable.

I was flying some Corran/Lando before the adjustment and kinda liked it. I personally didn't perform great with it, but it was fun and had some big moments. Lando with a force from someone can often toss his extra action to Corran, and Corran still has a lot of big play potential. Extra attacks can be really potent.

At my personal skill level, Corran is probably a "For The Memes"-tier pilot, but he'd be one of the best "For The Memes" pilots.

2 hours ago, RoockieBoy said:

AS Corran hits like a wet noodle. I played like 30 games before switching to fcs, and I've never looked back. Ad I've definately got better results with it. Myfavorite build is FCS,R2 Astro, spare parts. Alongside a 112p Han I made Top8 in Bologna SoS and Top32 in Madrid SoS. A friend borrowed my list, added crackshot and went 6-0 in Madrid, losing in the Top8.

Will that Corran work after the points adjustments? I think depends on wether fat Han works or not after the ID nerf...

I started with AS Corran (with Afterburners, too). With Lando also providing a bonus action, and Predator on Corran, he could still hit pretty hard. There was a lot of flexibility, but ultimately I didn't feel like I needed it. I kind of feel like AS Corran needs action support, but with action support, Corran doesn't need AS.

Mostly inspired by you, I've switched to FCS and tried Spare Parts (probably the first thing I cut... it didn't seem bad, just the least-valuable thing), but I'm totally filling the talent slot. All three bullseye talents are cheap and seem decent (I went with Predator, so that I'm not as dependent on having a Lock on a target I want to double-tap, but CS makes a lot of sense, and I've got a twisted fascination with Marksmanship).

6 hours ago, Sunitsa said:

what makes me mad about Corran and E-wing is their ****** linked action... WIthout even starting to rant about how 3 green ships need a linked focus, why did they gave him a linked that doesn't even work well with the ship ability?!?

Flying around with Lando, I didn't hate the linked action. It's still cramming in an extra action, and it works particularly well when doing a pre-move boost or barrel roll into a blue move. The blues of an E-Wing aren't amazing, so they probably couldn't really handle linked Focus actions every turn anyhow. Not that R4 is bad, but I just think R2 and R3 are both much better.

Still, it's better than having no linked actions.

Just adding my own imput to this Corran Discussion,
1) Lando is definitly one of the best pilots to fly with Coran to help with his action efficiency
Lando w/Corran > Han w/ Corran now
2) The discussion on AS v FCS depends mainly on one thing, Is Corran the center of the build? If he is then you can put more point on to him and add ships that support eg. lando or AP. If Corran is a big piece but it is a 3 ship+ list with other I5/6 aces then he will have less action support so FCS is more effective.

21 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I was flying some Corran/Lando before the adjustment and kinda liked it. I personally didn't perform great with it, but it was fun and had some big moments. Lando with a force from someone can often toss his extra action to Corran, and Corran still has a lot of big play potential. Extra attacks can be really potent.

At my personal skill level, Corran is probably a "For The Memes"-tier pilot, but he'd be one of the best "For The Memes" pilots.

I too am among the meming pilots of Corran and would never get anywhere with him in large tournements. The Lando with force did get me thinking however, btw do you also get the moments when your mind clicks and things start coming together whilst list building?

Corran Horn - Predator/Advanced Sensors/R2-D2
Lando Calrissian - Trick Shot/Ezra Bridger/Nien Nunb/Maul (12)

Ezra is better when your stressed Maul can regen force to get stressed or you can boost.
Nien helps with blues to clear the stress after as well as helping lando
Double force lets Corran have Landos +1 action

Definitly will try this next time 😀.

11 minutes ago, K13R4N said:

I too am among the meming pilots of Corran and would never get anywhere with him in large tournements.

May the Memes be with you, always.

My worry with Maul on Lando is that I've often really enjoyed Lando's red boost, and 2+ stress isn't necessarily fun. But I've run Ezra on there, and with the new point cut, might try it again. With Nien Nunb stapled to Lando, Ezra using the Gunner rather than Crew slot opens up a bunch of options for the build. To that end, plan for the next time I fly a Lando/Corran involves GONK...

That said, I'm totally thinking maybe Ezra/Maul on the meme Dash I'm thinking of flying with Miranda. Outrider to clear Maul stress on white moves over rocks? To be sure, it'd just be memes. Ezra/Maul vs Luke is a tough choice...

as a TO for a hyperspace in a couple weeks, what rules trick situations should i be aware of? I'm not dumb (i.e. OF COURSE YOU CAN PASSIVE LINKED ROTATE ON YOUR SF), but stuff like Ciena + Autothrusters I can't figure out.

8 hours ago, Sunitsa said:

if anything we are entering into Anakin meta, he's crazy good

Why do you think that?

17 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Why do you think that?

Because he's a 1.0 ace in an environment lacking the tools to deal with him,with the added bonus of being partially able to not care about blocks, obstacles and stress.

New points kick him out from having mace and 2 torrents as wingmen, which was a borderline broken build in a meta who had golden age rebel beef but he's probably more than fine with just master wind and an arc.

I hope to be wrong but anakin (and deltas in general, he's just the ps6 culprit of the bunch) is one of the worst designed seen so far in 2.0

1 hour ago, Ablazoned said:

as a TO for a hyperspace in a couple weeks, what rules trick situations should i be aware of? I'm not dumb (i.e. OF COURSE YOU CAN PASSIVE LINKED ROTATE ON YOUR SF), but stuff like Ciena + Autothrusters I can't figure out.

Just have any disputes settled with X-wing Vs Tie fighter. However you must run it on windows ME computers. First computer to blue screen loses the argument.

16 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

I think the more you look at Hyperspace the harder it is to predict how First Order will do.

Pros:

• Potentially more Tie Swarm is interesting, thats a decent matchup for Mr. Tavson and Kylo.
• Potentially Less Anakin helps Kylo out a good deal. Not getting init killed is helpful.

Cons:

• Potentially Less Beef is not ideal. FO was excellent for Hyperspace pre-pts change because Tavson was hungry for the easy beef matchups.
• Potentially More Aces ( Specifically Vader/Soontir/Jedi/Fenn/Guri/Boba) is bad news for First Order in general. As long as the Aces don't 100% joust they tend to bully Tavson & Quickdraw.
  • If there are more Ace Lists, FO can kinda adapt but doesn't run Aces better than other factions, just differently I guess.

So on net...im still excited to use First Order in season 2 of trials. Im not sure where things land. Is this what balance feels like? I think so and its fun. The faction seems totally fine for hyperspace.

Jousty FO + Kylo will always be at least somewhat decent because some players will joust everything (best submarine in the game?). Against better players you have to get them to mess up their flank, but the archetype typically has a winnable game on hand.

I've put up the poll results from last week in a couple places now, but I wanted to actually add commentary to it in this thread. Poll was opened on July 2nd and ran for about 24 hours before it maxed out the number of free results you can get from Survey Monkey (i.e., 100). I'll run an updated snapshot right after the next SOS at the end of the month.

People are wildly down on FO, CIS, and Scum. I'm tempted to interpret this as suggesting no one will be experimenting in these factions, which also means that they're most likely to come up with a "Huh....." list. Others are more likely to be 'solved' if people already think the answer is in there.

I don't believe our community. More people will play Rebels than this. The others I basically believe, except that I don't think CIS will be that high.

Apparently when you force a power ranking where they have to include every faction, Resistance is the only one that actually comes out looking balanced (i.e., as a bell curve where equal amounts of people believe it's garbage as think it's tops).

No one picked FO as first choice - can I get a sad Tavson gif? Even CIS had a few fanboys that ranked it first.

People seem generally unconcerned about Republic as a faction, but from a certain point of view, they know the truth. 65% of players seem to think it's in the top half.

In other news, 63% of the respondents are not worried enough about the N-1.

I think the preferred faction was interpreted as which faction do you like most more than which is best, so most people dislike playing rebels compared to other options, but think their faction is bad and play rebels instead.

Most users in this forum are kitchen table players who rarely go to tournaments.

I obviously have no proof for that, but this is the reason I mostly post in this thread where, despite the presence of many wedge-deniars, the average poster is at least interested in competitive xwing.

3 hours ago, PaulRuddSays said:

I've put up the poll results from last week in a couple places now, but I wanted to actually add commentary to it in this thread. Poll was opened on July 2nd and ran for about 24 hours before it maxed out the number of free results you can get from Survey Monkey (i.e., 100). I'll run an updated snapshot right after the next SOS at the end of the month.

People are wildly down on FO, CIS, and Scum. I'm tempted to interpret this as suggesting no one will be experimenting in these factions, which also means that they're most likely to come up with a "Huh....." list. Others are more likely to be 'solved' if people already think the answer is in there.

I don't believe our community. More people will play Rebels than this. The others I basically believe, except that I don't think CIS will be that high.

Apparently when you force a power ranking where they have to include every faction, Resistance is the only one that actually comes out looking balanced (i.e., as a bell curve where equal amounts of people believe it's garbage as think it's tops).

No one picked FO as first choice - can I get a sad Tavson gif? Even CIS had a few fanboys that ranked it first.

People seem generally unconcerned about Republic as a faction, but from a certain point of view, they know the truth. 65% of players seem to think it's in the top half.

In other news, 63% of the respondents are not worried enough about the N-1.

Sweet! People doubting FO/not planning on playing it mean that I can bomb to 5-2 at Gencon, but possibly end up with an awesome Kylo spot gloss! To avoid a double post:

I don't understand people trying to make the Inky's work as the workhorse of a list. Sure, Grand Inky can punch above his weight class (finally, now that he's dropped to a reasonable price) and 7th Sister can seriously annoy, but even they are never the stars of a list. High defense alone does not win 2nd edition, for a good list is a complicated matrix (even if all the working pieces in themselves are more or less simple. Case in point: Torrential/Vader Soontir Bombers were rather simple lists, but the nuances of those lists checked all the good things which can get rather complicated). But they are costed aggressively, so they can be tempting. Let me propose what I've been toying with: Optimized Prototype.

Sure, Krennic is a relatively "meh" crew. There is a reason why he is only 4pt. But if you can cram him into a list of 4 ships, he starts to look less like a lost investment, and more like an annoying side piece that doesn't go (especially since he can have the prototype auto-"damage" R3 through clouds or flip facedown cards if no more shields are to be had). Inky's are resilient, but their anemic 2 die attack doesn't impress. Why not combine both factors for a pesky auto-damage/condition (when prototype spends the paint and typically doesn't hit) that can live a while and squeeze in a list? Especially when ST 321 is only 4 pt. and that Sai can go aggressively with the synergy on ST321, Optimized, and ability? At initiative 3.

Haven't gotten a meaningful number of reps in with this (especially with me spending all my time at kit tourneys prepping for bigger events with FO), but the concept is starting to form into something I like a lot. Double modded Sai as area control works in the opening engagement and unfortunately turns to support rather early, but the prototype has been hauling a lot of weight given the silliness of Maarek's ability when triggering properly (Maarek chooses a nasty crit, and either that gets re-flipped by the prototype or a new hidden disaster is uncovered. Or even just chip away at a Jedi's regen at a silly range from a 2 die gun that isn't supposed to work). Best of all, ST321 and Krennic are not picky about who gets coordinated, so it was more often than expected that Maarek was coordinated a focus, but his positioning charged prototype on a desirable target.

Lieutenant Sai (47)
Director Krennic (4)
ST-321 (4)

Ship total: 55 Half Points: 28 Threshold: 5

"Duchess" (42)
Elusive (3)
Fifth Brother (9)
Stealth Device (6)

Ship total: 60 Half Points: 30 Threshold: 2

Maarek Stele (46)
Crack Shot (1)
Passive Sensors (3)

Ship total: 50 Half Points: 25 Threshold: 3

Inquisitor (35)
Ship total: 35 Half Points: 18 Threshold: 2


Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Galactic Empire&d=v8ZsZ200Z166XWW28WWW162Y211X119W82WW166Y174X116W240WWY171XWW&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

Heck, if you really wanted to, you could try and make Vess work. I'm just joking of course. Rex 4 lyfe.

Meanwhile....

There was a guy in Australia who brought and played RAC Whisper - at a hyperspace trial back in May.

edit: also, I think I'm going to do the analysis of wave 3 twice: once overall, and once time resolved. Is it worth it to take two weeks as intervals? I think weekly is overkill. 4 weeks sounds good, too. We did have 16 weeks so far, so that would give me 4 sets of 4 weekends.

Thoughts?

1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:

Meanwhile....

There was a guy in Australia who brought and played RAC Whisper - at a hyperspace trial back in May.

edit: also, I think I'm going to do the analysis of wave 3 twice: once overall, and once time resolved. Is it worth it to take two weeks as intervals? I think weekly is overkill. 4 weeks sounds good, too. We did have 16 weeks so far, so that would give me 4 sets of 4 weekends.

Thoughts?

Phantoms weren't legal for hyperspace trials and nobody called him on it?

1 minute ago, SnooSnarry said:

Phantoms weren't legal for hyperspace trials and nobody called him on it?

looks like it, yes. He also went 0-5. That might be a DQ, but I have no clue whatsoever

3 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

edit: also, I think I'm going to do the analysis of wave 3 twice: once overall, and once time resolved. Is it worth it to take two weeks as intervals? I think weekly is overkill. 4 weeks sounds good, too. We did have 16 weeks so far, so that would give me 4 sets of 4 weekends.

Thoughts?

What do you mean with "once time resolved"?