3 minutes ago, gennataos said:I'm really starting to believe that 2.0 has accomplished what we hoped, which is that any reasonable assemblage of ships which lean into the identified strengths of each faction is good enough to make cuts. Some might need more or less matchup help and/or dice luck than others.
"Any assemblage" being a t65, clearly.
6 minutes ago, gennataos said: I'm really starting to believe that 2.0 has accomplished what we hoped, which is that any reasonable assemblage of ships which lean into the identified strengths of each faction is good enough to make cuts. Some might need more or less matchup help and/or dice luck than others.
Feels like mostly everything has multiple answers on the table.
Edited by Boom Owl2 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:"Any assemblage" being a t65, clearly.
I mean, I wouldn't, but it sure seems like it.
23 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:"Any assemblage" being a t65, clearly.
Yea, Rebels seem pretty adrift right now. The T65 is solid, especially Luke or Wedge (often with Swarm Tactics). Aside from that... yea they seem pretty lacking. HWKs have a little life in them, especially Roarke. Consensus seems to be that the big turrets are horribly overcosted (YT-1300, YT-2400, VCX-100), the A-Wing is too expensive and frail to use as a blocker, which is it's only remaining identity, while B-Wings and U-Wings just seem like less efficient X-Wings. Y-Wings have a little life, thanks to bombs, but they (and the K-Wing) pale in comparison to TIE Bombers and TIE Punishers, and even the Quadjumper seems like a better cheap filler bomber that can also tractor-control. The Rebel TIE and Z-95s are doing about as well as other 2-Attack swarmy filler ships... which is to say they seem to be having very little impact on the meta. The Sheathipede (especially AP-5) is a nice cheap coordinate, and the attack shuttle has Sabine which is close to a cheaper, wigglier X-Wing, at least.
I think a big problem stems from a lot of Rebel ships being boring, in that they sport mediocre agility and maneuverability. That doesn't lead to very exciting game play compared to things like TIE Phantoms, TIE Interceptors, Fang Fighters, Star Vipers, etc. Their ships are also often "generalists"--take the Y-Wing, for instance, it's got ordnance AND a turret AND bombs as options, leading to that whole "jack of all trades, master of none" sort of problem in competitive games where you tend to see min-maxxed specialist options rising to the top above generalists. Basically, a lot of Rebel ships feel like they've got an "11" in all of their character stats, while other factions tend to have more specialists that have that delicious 19 in Dexterity coupled with that 6 in Intelligence (or vice versa).
The Rebel Crew and Gunner options are also pretty 'meh' and boring, which doesn't help matters. I've built a variety of Rebel lists, and rarely do I opt for any crew, and even when I do I almost always am grabbing generic options over any of their uniques.
I'm starting to think (based on some very limited data) that the Rebel core competency is strongly related to the 1.0 core competency: shared defense
If you can spread damage a bit, those 4 Rebel ships can last a bit longer than ships of similar stats in Imperial or Scum squads, keeping your guns going in the midgame.
I think it's more than 1-straight to victory, because you don't have the all-quarters damage output and bombs to continue doing damage as you fly by an opponent, but it is maybe 1-straight to the opening engagement, where you have solid firepower to and defense to win head on jousts, but can break formation to engage and pursue as necessary.
5 minutes ago, Biophysical said:I'm starting to think (based on some very limited data) that the Rebel core competency is strongly related to the 1.0 core competency: shared defense
If you can spread damage a bit, those 4 Rebel ships can last a bit longer than ships of similar stats in Imperial or Scum squads, keeping your guns going in the midgame.
I think it's more than 1-straight to victory, because you don't have the all-quarters damage output and bombs to continue doing damage as you fly by an opponent, but it is maybe 1-straight to the opening engagement, where you have solid firepower to and defense to win head on jousts, but can break formation to engage and pursue as necessary.
I wonder if this can be as simple as just include Selfless on 1 of the 4 ships.
22 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:
Yea, Rebels seem pretty adrift right now. The T65 is solid, especially Luke or Wedge (often with Swarm Tactics). Aside from that... yea they seem pretty lacking. HWKs have a little life in them, especially Roarke. Consensus seems to be that the big turrets are horribly overcosted (YT-1300, YT-2400, VCX-100), the A-Wing is too expensive and frail to use as a blocker, which is it's only remaining identity, while B-Wings and U-Wings just seem like less efficient X-Wings. Y-Wings have a little life, thanks to bombs, but they (and the K-Wing) pale in comparison to TIE Bombers and TIE Punishers, and even the Quadjumper seems like a better cheap filler bomber that can also tractor-control. The Rebel TIE and Z-95s are doing about as well as other 2-Attack swarmy filler ships... which is to say they seem to be having very little impact on the meta. The Sheathipede (especially AP-5) is a nice cheap coordinate, and the attack shuttle has Sabine which is close to a cheaper, wigglier X-Wing, at least.
So this is an example of where I think having stats and analysis is useful - there's a couple points where we can correct some feelings. U-Wings are more efficient than X-Wings, not less efficient (for jousting generics). Y-Wings have performed among the worst ships in second edition - if anyone has figured out how to many anything other than Proton Torp Norra work, we haven't yet seen it.
4 minutes ago, Biophysical said:I'm starting to think (based on some very limited data) that the Rebel core competency is strongly related to the 1.0 core competency: shared defense
If you can spread damage a bit, those 4 Rebel ships can last a bit longer than ships of similar stats in Imperial or Scum squads, keeping your guns going in the midgame.
I think it's more than 1-straight to victory, because you don't have the all-quarters damage output and bombs to continue doing damage as you fly by an opponent, but it is maybe 1-straight to the opening engagement, where you have solid firepower to and defense to win head on jousts, but can break formation to engage and pursue as necessary.
SELFLESS
E
L
F
L
E
S
S
also biggs
1 minute ago, Boom Owl said:I wonder if this can be as simple as just include Selfless on 1 of the 4 ships.
why stop at one
Edited by Brunas11 hours ago, Brunas said:I already told ryan to yell at me to not forget them. So they're as safe as his plane ticket to coruscant...
I BELIEVE IN YOU
@Quack Shot ON TOP
Awesome!
(92) Han Solo
(30) Luke Skywalker
(4) Lone Wolf
(9) Engine Upgrade
(2) Jyn Erso
Points 137
(52) Wedge Antilles
(0) Servomotor S-foils
(9) Proton Torpedoes
Points 61
Total points: 198
@Tlfj200 keeps saying what an amazing i6 torp carrier Wedge is, so can’t go wrong obviously.
Just now, Quack Shot said:Awesome!
(92) Han Solo
(30) Luke Skywalker
(4) Lone Wolf
(9) Engine Upgrade
(2) Jyn Erso
Points 137(52) Wedge Antilles
(0) Servomotor S-foils
(9) Proton Torpedoes
Points 61Total points: 198
@Tlfj200 keeps saying what an amazing i6 torp carrier Wedge is, so can’t go wrong obviously.
JESUS
BUY BUY BUY
INVEST
3-3
NO 0-3 PRAY FOR ME
3 minutes ago, Quack Shot said:Awesome!
(92) Han Solo
(30) Luke Skywalker
(4) Lone Wolf
(9) Engine Upgrade
(2) Jyn Erso
Points 137(52) Wedge Antilles
(0) Servomotor S-foils
(9) Proton Torpedoes
Points 61Total points: 198
@Tlfj200 keeps saying what an amazing i6 torp carrier Wedge is, so can’t go wrong obviously.
Theme Squadron activate
18 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:I wonder if this can be as simple as just include Selfless on 1 of the 4 ships.
17 minutes ago, Brunas said:
SELFLESS
E
L
F
L
E
S
S
also biggs
why stop at one
This is what I've done in very limited fashion so far: Biggs + 2 Selfless. I absolutely don't know the optimum, but it definitely keeps guys alive. I'm so bad at flying in formation that I've been getting guys hung out early, then Biggs and a Selfless swoops in to save them from death. Seems Like it gets guys onto combat pretty intact, so when you break up after the merge guys aren't getting isolated and picked off as easily.
It makes that question of "Why X-wings?" easier to answer. Because 2 AGI, 6 hp is actually pretty tough when damage is consistently being pulled away and the guy shooting at them is worried about a few 3 dice shots coming back his way.
Edit: with a bunch of Selfless, you can also break up into groups of 2 and still spread damage between. You're not relying on just one.
Edited by BiophysicalFor tonight's experimentation... I'm hitting as many checkboxes as possible.
I actually expect it to be bad, which is fine for casual night.
7 minutes ago, Biophysical said:Because 2 AGI, 6 hp is actually pretty tough when damage is consistently being pulled away and the guy shooting at them is worried about a few 3 dice shots coming back his way.
Also helps a tiny bit that the Proton Torp hit to crit mechanic is a must not a may.
Separate question....why do 100% of Rebel Lists exclude Regen?
Edited by Boom Owl2 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:Also helps a tiny bit that the Proton Torp hit to crit mechanic is a must not a may.
Not a joke.
3 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:Separate question....why do 100% of Rebel Lists exclude Regen?
That's an interesting point... Maybe some of us have bought too hard into base frames... Luke with Regen is wonderful.
2 minutes ago, LagJanson said:That's an interesting point... Maybe some of us have bought too hard into base frames... Luke with Regen is wonderful.
Selfless and Regen = Rebel Flex Glue
They hold everything together.
1 hour ago, gennataos said:So...what is a joust?
What is not a joust?
1 minute ago, Boom Owl said:Selfless and Regen = Rebel Flex Glue
Nuts. A Red Squad Vet with Selfless and an R2 unit is 52 points.
7 minutes ago, LagJanson said:Nuts. A Red Squad Vet with Selfless and an R2 unit is 52 points.
1 minute ago, Boom Owl said:
That looks like my coffee this morning...
16 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:Separate question....why do 100% of Rebel Lists exclude Regen?
Maybe playstyle preference? Maybe cuz being disarmed sucks and it's obvious when someone is going to bug out and regen? I don't know, I've tried it a lot on Luke and it always seems to delay the inevitable then he dies. I probably just suck at it.
What doesn't suck for Luke? Juke/Jyn Sabine as a wingmate.
38 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:Separate question....why do 100% of Rebel Lists exclude Regen?
Points I think are going towards the alpha offense. Proton Torps are being prioritized by the average player over the R2s. After putting the whole list together, people either want bids or not enough pts left overall.
33 minutes ago, LagJanson said:Nuts. A Red Squad Vet with Selfless and an R2 unit is 52 points.
sure, but you could get a wedge for that many points.
35 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:Separate question....why do 100% of Rebel Lists exclude Regen?
It's just not as efficient as in 1.0. You can't 1 straight and pick up a free shield while still engaging. Or screw off to R3 focus/evade like Corran, and even if you could you could only regen back up once not the multiple times a typical Corran game involved. Regen was, rightly, nerfed into the ground in 2.0 and people are for the most part, rightly, seeing that and avoiding it as the trap it is. Other than super Luke I don't think any rebel ship is enough of a points fortress to make it worthwhile and while he's tanky he's not that tanky. Every game I've seen with regen either chase is given and that regen is canceled out by potshots or, with the exception of one game, the rest of the list is torn to shreds while Luke/Wedge is off regening and it's too much of an uphill climb for them to get back in.
49 minutes ago, LagJanson said:Nuts. A Red Squad Vet with Selfless and an R2 unit is 52 points.
What about some jank like this then?
Garven Dreis (47)
Selfless (3)
R2 Astromech (6)
Servomotor S-foils (0)
Biggs Darklighter (48)
R2 Astromech (6)
Servomotor S-foils (0)
Gold Squadron Veteran (34)
Proton Torpedoes (9)
R4 Astromech (2)
Gold Squadron Veteran (34)
Proton Torpedoes (9)
R4 Astromech (2)
Total: 200
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0
I've tried the 2 X and 2 Y before and it was pretty nice. Those X were Luke and Wedge because those are the X-wings to choose. But why not Selfless/Biggs and regen instead?