14 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:beware of interdictors
*giggles*
Trying to find 4+ Strikers and X to see what I can make in Hyperspace.
.....
5 Sentinels and Vizier fits in Hyperspace.
This requires further thought.....
4 Blacks and Feroph with 23 points of wiggle.
2 Reapers 3 Strikers fit.
Tall Dark & Asthmatic and 4 Strikers fits.
4 Strikers + Decimator too.
Options.
We have them.
3 minutes ago, Vespid1311 said:5 Sentinels and Vizier fits in Hyperspace.
This requires further thought.....
You must be taking the....45 leaves 155...divide by....no.....no..... holy god you're not joking . That's TERRIFYING.
Edited by Magnus Grendel1 hour ago, Vespid1311 said:
I have thought about Striker All Stars (all named pilots, with various upgrades) but I don't feel it has legs.
First Pass:
Everyone gets an upgrade (or two) that pairs with their respective pilot ability. Whether they can face a mob of generics with a 50% numerical advantage, we'll have to see.
I put 6 Planetary Sentinels on the table last night. I beat a squad with Krassis, Ketsu, Dengar losing only two strikers. 6 ships with 3 attack dice is mean! I brought two Proton Bombs and one Seismic Charges. I dropped only one Seismic, damaging two of his ships and one of mine. Bombs just don't seem great for a squad with 6 ships, but maybe it just takes more practice.
(I'm on a huge First Order kick, but without the Upsilon in Hyperspace, in definitely flying strikers there. With that in mind, most of my lists will be focused on Hyperspace.)
--
Here's one of my old favorites, but with the i1 Sentinels bumped to i3 Scouts because of the points change.
Captain Feroph (47)
"Duchess" (42)
Black Squadron Scout (34)
Black Squadron Scout (34)
Black Squadron Scout (34)
Total: 191
I LOVE that now the generic strikers move at the same initiative as Feroph, which enhances maneuvering flexibility. They also match the initiative of most high-initiative generics in Hyperspace. The question is: what do you put on Feroph with those last 9 points?
Death Troopers (6);
SeventhSister (9);
DirectorKrennic (4) + Agent Kallus (5);
ISB Slicer (3) + Outmaneuver (6) on Duchess.
These are just some of my options. I don't have a good handle on what the field will be. I'm imagining generics, generics everywhere (except First Order). Don't know if Death Troopers or Seventh Sister will be good against those, but Seventh Sister sounds fun and Force is known to be good.
Edited by Parakitor20 minutes ago, Parakitor said:Bombs just don't seem great for a squad with 6 ships, but maybe it just takes more practice.
The more ships you have, the worse it's likely to be for you, I think. Maybe a pair of Mines might be a better idea?
20 minutes ago, Parakitor said:I LOVE that now the generic strikers move at the same initiative as Feroph, which enhances maneuvering flexibility. They also match the initiative of most high-initiative generics in Hyperspace. The question is: what do you put on Feroph with those last 9 points?
Death Troopers (6);
SeventhSister (9);
DirectorKrennic (4) + Agent Kallus (5);
ISB Slicer (3) + Outmaneuvere (6) on Duchess.
With Predator and Elusive both tanked, I think Outmanoeuvre is a good default choice for Duchess - but it is expensive which is an issue since keeping her cheap is generally good.
20 minutes ago, Parakitor said:They also match the initiative of most high-initiative generics in Hyperspace.
Especially with Sabers now pulled. Kind of a shame they simultaneously re-priced them sensibly and also took them out of the format.
Edited by Magnus Grendel
I guess this list will be my first try in this new, weird, Hyperspace-world:
"Duchess" (42)
Captain Feroph (56)
Intimidation
Death Troopers
Black Squadron Scout (34)
Black Squadron Scout (34)
Black Squadron Scout (34)
Total: 200
Looking forward to bringing my strikers back to the table, and I am grateful for the inspiration,
@Parakitor
and
@Magnus Grendel
I am, however, quite unsure if these five ships can handle 5 x-wings or 8 hyenas. At least I will fire before most swarms, and 15 red dice is a lot. Guess we will see how it goes...
13 minutes ago, N'Kata said:Looking forward to bringing my strikers back to the table, and I am grateful for the inspiration, @Parakitor and @Magnus Grendel I am, however, quite unsure if these five ships can handle 5 x-wings or 8 hyenas. At least I will fire before most swarms, and 15 red dice is a lot. Guess we will see how it goes...
Eesh. Those are both going to be uphill battles. Man, if Empire still had Phasma (i.e. Mara Jade)...the ability to deal stress to ships at range 1 would be great for Feroph with Intimidation. But it's not too be.
So a few thoughts here. First, using that initiative advantage. You're going to have to hope you can take ships off the board before they get to shoot. This will involve careful target priority, and sometimes giving up those range-1 shots to finish off enemy fighters.
Another aspect of using initiative is those Ailerons. With 10 ships on the board it will be crowded. I have been really bad at visualizing where I see combat happening, and instead I tend to funnel my ships through a choke point to make sure I have all guns in target. The worst thing to do is have a single ship in range of one or more of their guns on the opening engagement. It doesn't end well for the striker. Engaging together in formation helps to avoid that. But the problem is your strikers have limited maneuvering options after the engage because of their Ailerons and short turn-around maneuvers. This ultimately means you have focus tokens for the first engagement, but no actions for the next 1 or 2 rounds.
I think the best approach is to engage from multiple angles to give your ships options on the follow-up that don't give you stress. BUT you have to beware of overextending one or two of your ships, giving your opponent free shots without you bringing the whole might of the Empire to bear on them. This will take practice. I need to find a buddy and just work through drills setting up a good engagement.
When ship count starts to drop, you'll really be able to use those Ailerons in an Adaptive way to track enemy fighters. I think for this reason Black Sq. Scouts are the way to go. I haven't played many games in which my strikers move last, but in the few that I have played, the strikers felt bonkers good. I will not be at all surprised if Black Sq. Scouts go up again after this season.
Finally, those Hyena swarms make me want to bring Proton Bombs as an insurance policy. I know it won't end well, but that many droids is scary.
I'll be buying my 6th Striker tonight (assuming it's still on the shelf at B&N). Very exciting! So 6 planetary sentinels fit with 14 points to spare for gunner, bomb, and mod slots. A few hyperspace-legal things I noticed to fill the points:
Gunner: Fifth brother is legal and fits at 11 points.
Bombs: Legal bombs will be Seismic (3), Proton (5), and the soon-to-be released Ion (6) and Cluster (8). Maybe only taking a few bombs with trailing ships is best to cover your retreat after the attack run. Cluster Mines might work well for this.
Mods: Limited options here (that are hyperspace legal). One of note - Targeting Computer (3). Maybe increase the alpha-strike capability?
Other Stikers : Any of the other Strikers would fit in as a replacement 6th ship option. There is a new one coming that is an interesting option (35):
5 hours ago, N'Kata said:I am, however, quite unsure if these five ships can handle 5 x-wings or 8 hyenas.
They did okay in 1st edition with 5v5, and those X-wings had Flight Assist Astromech on their side. They may have gained a hull but they've lost integrated astromech. I suspect it'll be hard but doable.
3 hours ago, dadocollin said:Gunner: Fifth brother is legal and fits at 11 points.
Bombs: Legal bombs will be Seismic (3), Proton (5), and the soon-to-be released Ion (6) and Cluster (8). Maybe only taking a few bombs with trailing ships is best to cover your retreat after the attack run. Cluster Mines might work well for this.
Mods: Limited options here (that are hyperspace legal). One of note - Targeting Computer (3). Maybe increase the alpha-strike capability?
Other Stikers : Any of the other Strikers would fit in as a replacement 6th ship option. There is a new one coming that is an interesting option (35):
Indeed. With a 6-ship striker swarm, any work.
I couldn't resist. Here's an extended squad.
Captain Feroph (47)
Admiral Sloane (9)
Angled Deflectors (6)
Black Squadron Scout (34)
Black Squadron Scout (34)
Black Squadron Scout (34)
Black Squadron Scout (34)
Total: 198
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0:
https://raithos.github.io/?f=Galactic Empire&d=v8ZsZ200Z184XW14WW247Y212XWWWY212XWWWY212XWWWY212XWWW&sn=New Squadron&obs=
Feroph gains reinforce, and the strikers all jump to initiative 3. This one might be fun! For me, not for my opponent.
3 hours ago, Parakitor said:Captain Feroph (47)
Admiral Sloane (9)
Angled Deflectors (6)
Black Squadron Scout (34)
Black Squadron Scout (34)
Black Squadron Scout (34)
Black Squadron Scout (34)
I would remove Deflectors for Stealth Device on Feroph, and add Crack Shot on the four Scouts.
1 hour ago, Rossetti1828 said:I would remove Deflectors for Stealth Device on Feroph, and add Crack Shot on the four Scouts.
Wow. That's...not what I would do. Talk me through it. What makes you reach for those upgrades.
My idea is that a Reinforce should keep Feroph on the board longer...maybe? For example, if they get 2 hits and a focus (but they don't spend the focus), Feroph doesn't get to change a die to an evade, but Reinforce will drop it to 1. If they do spend the focus (not everybody knows how Feroph works), then Feroph still takes 1 damage. But it's really for those heavy 4-dice attacks like Proton Torpedoes. Turning 4 hits into 2 just feels good. Also, I'm not sure I trust bullseye abilities enough to spend even 1 point. I had Crack Shot on Avenger last night, and the one time I attacked a ship in bullseye, they blanked out, so no Crack Shot. 🤷♂️
15 hours ago, Parakitor said:With 10 ships on the board it will be crowded.
....
I think the best approach is to engage from multiple angles to give your ships options on the follow-up that don't give you stress.
...
When ship count starts to drop, you'll really be able to use those Ailerons in an Adaptive way to track enemy fighters.
This is exactly my experience.
Playing against Droid Swarms, even Strutted Swarms, means that you will get clogged quickly. If you aren't moving first, you are unlikely to get actions unless you leave room for your future moves.... which makes your initial engagement awkward.
A more open board ("open" as in "free from moving obstacles") is much more conducive to Aileron play.
Though, with that said, I still bring larger obstacles (Debris usually, though Rocks work too): It is a lot easier to channel and block people in if they get concerned about obstacles or think that they move better through them.
16 hours ago, N'Kata said:I am, however, quite unsure if these five ships can handle 5 x-wings or 8 hyenas.
5 XWings is hard work.... but there are ways around it with your list.
For starters, Five 3 Dice Focus Attacks statistically wipes an XWing in 7 universes out of 10. If Feroph is touching that ship, it's close to 8 out of 10 (even without Feroph shooting). That reduces the opponent's return fire.
You theoretically lose a Reaper or a Striker in return.... but you aren't jousting in a fair joust, are you?
With Ailerons and second player, you should be engineering the first engagement to your favour. Make the Obstacles work for you, you have ways around them. Engage your opponent on an angle so that they can't target the same target with more than one or two shots at a time. Use the Ailerons to Nope out of an unfavourable engagement or jump in for an even better one if it is open. Strikers are moderately good at Range Control in the opening engagement.
Hyenas are definitely problematic with their numbers and token sharing. Death Troopers will come in handy, but that makes the assumption that the Droid Player is unable to wipe a Reaper in one go.... Angles and range control on entry are your friend here.
8 hours ago, Parakitor said:Captain Feroph (47)
Admiral Sloane (9)
Angled Deflectors (6)
Black Squadron Scout (34)
Black Squadron Scout (34)
Black Squadron Scout (34)
Black Squadron Scout (34)
That is gross.
....
On my To Do list now.
4 hours ago, Rossetti1828 said:I would remove Deflectors for Stealth Device on Feroph, and add Crack Shot on the four Scouts.
I see where you are coming from (If you manage to get that perfect defense on Feroph more than once, then you are gold) but I am sort of with Parakitor here.
Reinforce is likely to do more work than Stealth Device in more cases. For any more than 4 Droid Shots, for example, the Reinforce helps more. Against a more traditional 3 Dice Focus attack, it only takes two attacks for the Stealth to be breached worse than Reinforce. If you managed to get 3+ defense with Stealth Device active, or limit the opponent to one or two shots a round, then I would be down for that (I have a Boba list that uses it well), but I don't see it as particularly useful on Feroph.
That said, I fly Crack Blacks... that Crack Shot is worth considering in every case. Even if you don't get more than one or two off a game, it is worth it at 1 point.
Worth losing Deflectors for? Hmm.... debatable/probably not.
I am considering 5x Crack+Hull Blacks for this reason. They didn't raise the points on Crack Shot, keep abusing it all you can. Almost a shame they took it from Hyperspace. Almost.
EDIT
Kind of thinking about Kallus and Deflectors on Feroph/Vermeil in Hyperspace (and in general).
Feroph has solid defense with Reinforce and native ability, but no way to improve attacking when Reinforcing.... which is where Kallus comes in.
Vermeil likes getting in peoples faces, and basically saying that you are defending against 3+ Hits no matter what I roll.
Leaves enough room for 4 Blacks and some Talent/s.
Edited by Vespid1311I played 5xSentinels and Duchess (Predator) yesterday and really enjoyed flying the squad and it's firepower. Duchess is a strong lategame piece and really shines in this squad.
The biggest concern I have is (because there are so many possible builds to consider) that it'll be super hard to find the strongest list.
Edited by Ryuneke
4 minutes ago, Ryuneke said:The biggest concern I have is (because are so many possible builds to consider) that it'll be super hard to find the strongest list.
I have no problem with this
1 hour ago, Vespid1311 said:A more open board ("open" as in "free from moving obstacles") is much more conducive to Aileron play.
Well, the simplest squad I can think of is six sentinels, four packing seismic charges. Eight seismic is more than you can use but it's about having a bomb on the right ship at the right moment - I'm always hesitant about bringing only one or two ship's with payload upgrades for this reason.
18 hours ago, Parakitor said:20 hours ago, Rossetti1828 said:I would remove Deflectors for Stealth Device on Feroph, and add Crack Shot on the four Scouts.
Wow. That's...not what I would do. Talk me through it. What makes you reach for those upgrades.
Mostly because I'm really not convinced Angled Deflectors is ever worth it. A Shield upgrade is 2 points cheaper and your ship will have +2 shields over Deflectors. So AngDef needs to cancel 3 damage before being 'better', but then you are also loosing a Focus or other action off Feroph, reducing his attack potential.
In terms of maximising Feroph's lifespan, Stealth Device (and taking Evades while it is active) has worked very well for me (unless you get into range 1 on the first engagement) and has proven at least as good as Shield Upgrade.
Crack Shot is just really good value. Even if only 1 or maybe 2 of those trigger in a game I think that's a really good use of 4 points. I'm pretty sure it should cost 2 points and was surprised it didn't go up.
15 hours ago, Rossetti1828 said:I'm pretty sure it should cost 2 points and was surprised it didn't go up.
It's no longer a hyperspace legal alternative, though.
42 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:It's no longer a hyperspace legal alternative, though.
Oh sure, but we were discussing an Extended squad featuring Sloane 🙂
Oh man, this whole Hyperspace vs. Extended thing is shaking up to be quite confusing. 😣
17 hours ago, Parakitor said:Oh man, this whole Hyperspace vs. Extended thing is shaking up to be quite confusing. 😣
That's why I'm trying to settle on a simple squad which is legal for both.
PS3 used to be quite a nice nice-to-have in 1st edition, giving the edge over most generics (especially the as-mentioned 5 x X-wing), so part of me is leaning toward 5 Black Squadron Scouts (plus the artwork is awesome). If other factions are likely to go all swarmy again then it'd be nice to take the higher initiative generic.
With Shield Upgrades and Mines both removed as options, the two that jump out for simplicity is 5 with Outmanoeuvre or else 5 with Ruthless and Hull Upgrade.
Hull Upgraded strikers are nice and tough (by heavy swarm standards) and the extra durability and common initiative supports being prepared to use ruthless if the option comes up; if I get a bunch of range 1 shots then good old Black 5 gets to take one for the team and get ventilated in the crossfire....
7 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:That's why I'm trying to settle on a simple squad which is legal for both.
PS3 used to be quite a nice nice-to-have in 1st edition, giving the edge over most generics (especially the as-mentioned 5 x X-wing), so part of me is leaning toward 5 Black Squadron Scouts (plus the artwork is awesome). If other factions are likely to go all swarmy again then it'd be nice to take the higher initiative generic.
With Shield Upgrades and Mines both removed as options, the two that jump out for simplicity is 5 with Outmanoeuvre or else 5 with Ruthless and Hull Upgrade.
Hull Upgraded strikers are nice and tough (by heavy swarm standards) and the extra durability and common initiative supports being prepared to use ruthless if the option comes up; if I get a bunch of range 1 shots then good old Black 5 gets to take one for the team and get ventilated in the crossfire....
When it comes to squadbuilding with Strikers the most important thing will be how the meta will look like. If we see a lot I1-2 squads I'm going to fly Black Squadrons Scouts. If not I'm sold on 5 Sentinels with Duchess.
12 minutes ago, Ryuneke said:When it comes to squadbuilding with Strikers the most important thing will be how the meta will look like. If we see a lot I1-2 squads I'm going to fly Black Squadrons Scouts. If not I'm sold on 5 Sentinels with Duchess.
A good observation (the 5 plus a reaper is cool but reapers are somewhat unwieldy, especially if they have to move last).
Plus, Duchess' I5 has gotten distinctly more impressive - with Anakin, Soontir Fel, Quickdraw, Wedge and Han Solo (Scum and Resistance) all dropped from Hyperspace, Vader stripped of both Supernatural/Precognitive Reflexes and Afterburners, and five of the most mobile I5 pilots (Mace, Ello Asty, Guri, The Grand Inquisitor and Old Teroch) also dropped, Duchess is probably either at or close to the top of the 'aces' remaining outside the 'new hotness' of the new First Order content.
5 Sentinels and Duchess with your choice of Ruthless (plus a small bid), Targeting Computer or Seismic Charges is a nice option if I3 isn't worth the investment.
Edited by Magnus Grendel
27 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:5 Sentinels and Duchess with your choice of Ruthless (plus a small bid), Targeting Computer or Seismic Charges is a nice option if I3 isn't worth the investment.
I'll run this Squad at a local store on January 25th and to see how it'll do. Don't know about the meta yet but germans tend to use lower initiative pilots.
27 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:if I get a bunch of range 1 shots then good old Black 5 gets to take one for the team and get ventilated in the crossfire....
I don't know what you are talking about.... Black Five
clearly
got shot down by those rapidly approaching tangos.
...
I have been thinking on it for a while and, although I want to try the Duchess and the Sentinels, and I
really
want to go Outmanoeuvering, the thing that is on my mind is that, in almost every game I have played with the Strikers so far in Second Edition, it is rare that I feel comfortable with a points lead mid game. I might be 4 ships left vs 2, but I feel that at any moment my ships might get halved or wiped...
They are too fragile, and bleed easily.
The upgrade that I keep coming back to is Hull Upgrade.
You simultaneously extend your survivability and bolster your Half Point Threshold.
If you out-initiative the opponent, your shots should be enough to wipe most opponents straight up.
Currently looking strongly at Duchess with Hull, some I3s with Hull and a toss up between an additional unmodded I3 or give everyone Ruthless and have a
hapless Sentinel meatbag unaware of what is about to happen
useful I1 blocker.
Even a simple Ruthless Heavy Black Squadron.
I think this is where massed Strikers will have most success.