3 hours ago, Princess Peekaboo said:

That makes sense.

I have another question about a Mon Calamari Blaster Rifle. Does this work underwater? I got a theme going and wouldn't get something if it didn't work underwater.

You mean the Mon Cal Spear Blaster? Because for that, yes, it works underwater.

I like all this

6 hours ago, awayputurwpn said:

So you want your characters to start not trusting each other, spend their time together on the team arguing

if you handle the PvP in a narrative fashion, trading hits but not actually making attack rolls, with the understanding that you'll end the battle with both of you alive and well and understanding each other, then it can work. Like Thor & Captain America.

I do not mean that two characters cannot act as a foil to each other, but such characters must have reasons to coexist—shared values, similar outlooks, mutual compassion, a shared enemy, mutual friends, a duty that supercedes personal feelings, and just plain old necessity.

So...that is why I said you'll have to come up with a reason for Mychal'el to involve himself in the group, that would take precedence over his own feelings towards Jedi—at least for the time being.

Player Characters should be multifaceted and complicated, just like any person; it makes them believable and aids in immersion. And real people make compromises all the time; sometimes for excellent reasons, sometimes out of pure selfishness, and for a million other reasons.

1 hour ago, Mychal'el said:

I like all this

Make sure tramp is on board with it first... and arguing with tramp is like arguing with a wall that was built in the wrong place. Korath is tramp's ideal version of himself, trying to in character convince Korath/tramp that he'should wrong about something/to change his mind has a snowball's chance on mustufar's chance of working. So work out how the conflict resolves itself with tramp before it starts or the game will go up in flames (I am about 90% confident of that, Tramp seems to have mellowed somewhat in the last 12 years, still stubborn as a mule though, and a carrot works better with the mule that is tramp better than a stick). I'm saying this because I want the game to succeed, working together to tell a conflict story is the only way the game/story doesn't devolve into *player* conflict.

12 hours ago, awayputurwpn said:

I know there is an environmental adaptation attachment, and I'm pretty sure it works for lightsabers, so you can just use that. Anybody have that page # handy for the attachment?

Found it. Savage Spirits pg 50. It'll cost you 100 credits and 1 hardpoint on your lightsaber, @Princess Peekaboo . No special effects or mod options; just allows your lightsaber to work underwater.

4 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

Make sure tramp is on board with it first... and arguing with tramp is like arguing with a wall that was built in the wrong place. Korath is tramp's ideal version of himself, trying to in character convince Korath/tramp that he'should wrong about something/to change his mind has a snowball's chance on mustufar's chance of working. So work out how the conflict resolves itself with tramp before it starts or the game will go up in flames (I am about 90% confident of that, Tramp seems to have mellowed somewhat in the last 12 years, still stubborn as a mule though, and a carrot works better with the mule that is tramp better than a stick). I'm saying this because I want the game to succeed, working together to tell a conflict story is the only way the game/story doesn't devolve into *player* conflict.

Something about an unstoppable force and an immovable object comes to mind.

Although I have injected some of my personality into my character to make him more realistic, he is based on several different characters and/or persons. I don't agree with many things he says or does but his motives are always good and just.

I have absolutely no desire to argue with Tramp. That is no fun for me. I would rather argue with myself, I'd get far more accomplished.

But our characters already fundamentally disagree on matters of religion and politics. I personally think that makes for a very interesting partnership. I would prefer that they aren't successful in changing each other. But I'd like to see how they work past their differences, accepting each other for who they are, agreeing to disagree. But if they can't do that then they can just part ways eventually I guess. But if all that happens in the first scene, that would be a huge disservice to the characters and the story. The purpose of a literary foil is to highlight the differences in similar characters or similarities in different characters. Both our characters are headstrong and are firmly convinced that they are doing what is right.

Right now in the story Korath is a victim who needs saving. Once he's saved and Mychal'el gets to know what Korath's mission is, he will probably argue with him. So there needs to be another mutual goal to keep them working together. Billions of lives at stake was one of my earlier pitches to the group. I wasn't suggesting we be put on rails or a rock be dropped on us. Also my character doesn't want these other Force users to follow Korath blindly without knowing what they are getting into.

I don't want anybody's feelings to get hurt. I also don't want the character development to suffer just because the players are walking on eggshells around each other. I know it's fantasy fiction but having a everyone be a 'yesman' breaks my suspension of disbelief. I assume @Tramp Graphics doesn't want a Mary Sue story.

The reason I'm posting all this is to get feedback, I welcome it. But it would make me feel a lot better if everyone understood where I was coming from.

On 8/10/2017 at 0:28 AM, Rakaydos said:

I'm thinking something like this, but airtight. (and on something about the size of the Rebels team's shuttle, Phantom)

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/e/eb/Morad_Sumar_taken_prisoner.png

Gotcha. I was having trouble visualizing it, but I looked up the ship again in Special Modifications and read the section, and it makes total sense now.

8 freaking hard points! lol that thing is crazy.

Last thing: could you make a ship sheet for your fighter on swsheets.com?

9 minutes ago, Mychal'el said:

Once he's saved

If he's saved

2 minutes ago, awayputurwpn said:

If he's saved

Really? That's bleak!

I think we'll be needing that Atlantian princess and that airwhale asap!

1 hour ago, Mychal'el said:

I don't want anybody's feelings to get hurt. I also don't want the character development to suffer just because the players are walking on eggshells around each other. I know it's fantasy fiction but having a everyone be a 'yesman' breaks my suspension of disbelief. I assume @Tramp Graphics doesn't want a Mary Sue story.

No eggshells allowed in this game but I do expect players to be conscientious. First rule of gaming: DBAD. Allowances need to be made all around; that's just the nature of being in a group of people.

On a somewhat related note, keep in mind that one man's Mary Sue can often be another man's well-developed and believable protagonist

1 hour ago, Mychal'el said:

Really? That's bleak!

Well, Kamino is kind of a bleak planet! So it's fitting, if you think about it.

If you think really hard about it.

If you have a couple drinks, and then think really hard about it.

7 hours ago, Mychal'el said:

Something about an unstoppable force and an immovable object comes to mind.

Although I have injected some of my personality into my character to make him more realistic, he is based on several different characters and/or persons. I don't agree with many things he says or does but his motives are always good and just.

I have absolutely no desire to argue with Tramp. That is no fun for me. I would rather argue with myself, I'd get far more accomplished.

But our characters already fundamentally disagree on matters of religion and politics. I personally think that makes for a very interesting partnership. I would prefer that they aren't successful in changing each other. But I'd like to see how they work past their differences, accepting each other for who they are, agreeing to disagree. But if they can't do that then they can just part ways eventually I guess. But if all that happens in the first scene, that would be a huge disservice to the characters and the story. The purpose of a literary foil is to highlight the differences in similar characters or similarities in different characters. Both our characters are headstrong and are firmly convinced that they are doing what is right.

Right now in the story Korath is a victim who needs saving. Once he's saved and Mychal'el gets to know what Korath's mission is, he will probably argue with him. So there needs to be another mutual goal to keep them working together. Billions of lives at stake was one of my earlier pitches to the group. I wasn't suggesting we be put on rails or a rock be dropped on us. Also my character doesn't want these other Force users to follow Korath blindly without knowing what they are getting into.

I don't want anybody's feelings to get hurt. I also don't want the character development to suffer just because the players are walking on eggshells around each other. I know it's fantasy fiction but having a everyone be a 'yesman' breaks my suspension of disbelief. I assume @Tramp Graphics doesn't want a Mary Sue story.

The reason I'm posting all this is to get feedback, I welcome it. But it would make me feel a lot better if everyone understood where I was coming from.

What i'm suggesting is that you pm tramp and work out a long term plan about how the two of you will resolve your differences/get to a place of agreeing to disagree, i.e. COOPERATE to tell a story that you both agree to before you implement it.

17 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

What i'm suggesting is that you pm tramp and work out a long term plan about how the two of you will resolve your differences/get to a place of agreeing to disagree, i.e. COOPERATE to tell a story that you both agree to before you implement it.

Sage advice.

8 hours ago, awayputurwpn said:

keep in mind that one man's Mary Sue can often be another man's well-developed and believable protagonist

The reason why I mentioned Mary Sue is because Tramp made me change some of my backstory because he thought it was too Mary Sue.

I changed a lot of things so that my character could fit into the stricter side of RAW to keep Tramp happy and let me play. (I would have name swapped Sathari stats with the Mandalorian name to make my original Diathim-Human Hybrid backstory work within the system)

So concessions have been made on my part just so I could come play at the table. Now that I'm here I draw the line at changing my character's personality too.

I don't thin k anyone wants you to change his personality; just figure out a good reason for him to join the group. Now, necessity is a very good reason to join the group. Survival against a common foe is a very good reason to join the group.

On 8/9/2017 at 9:28 PM, Richardbuxton said:

Still rather busy. I have two options for characters:

taking a an ex CEC maintenance Droid ( HM-6T6 Engineer Mechanic) that I'm rather fond of in some interesting directions, probably a combination of Cool, Negotiation, and Vanguard for Supreme Bodyguard to make a loyal guard for hire, Cyber Tech would be great too.

Otherwise it's this

On 8/9/2017 at 9:57 PM, awayputurwpn said:

Personally, I love the idea of the droid. Stands out well from the rest. Could make for some interesting interplay between you and the ship's astromech.

Technically astromech s, (plural), but one is just a standard model basic NPC R2 unit.

On 8/10/2017 at 0:38 AM, Richardbuxton said:

It is a really fun character, a Brawn based mechanic who's relearning the ways of ships. It was created before rogue one, but I definitely see a lot of K2-SO in it, tough brawler with a deadpan personality and technical programming.

My first thought with advancement was that during the rebellion era he got in with the rebels. He probably had a strong bond to an agent, similar to Cassian I guess. That's where the Vanguard comes in, a tough walking shield for the rest of the team.

Post RotJ and the formation of the New Republic Sixty Six was effectively unnecessary, his team disbanded and perhaps his closest friend died in the war. Left at an abandoned rebel base on a world now at peace his directives evolved themselves. His prior focus of protection was still there, but now he realised others would pay for that.

He now travels the outer rim, plying his skills in repairs and protection to the downtrodden and unfortunate. His decades of experience have crafted him into a rather skilled negotiator and a known name in the underworld as someone who gets the job done. That's where Advisor comes in (Edit: actually Skip Tracer may be even better)

Engineer Mechanic/Vanguard/Advisor(or Skip Tracer)... a really odd mix. 4+ ranks in Mechanics, Brawl, Negotiation, Vigilance, Resilience, Discipline and Cool. If the XP works out reasonably then I'll get Cyber Tech along the way. Probably spend most of the credits on Cybernetic Enhancements to improve Brawn, Agility and Intellect by 1 each, perhaps something to assist with negotiations as well such as a Species database. Tough armour with defence would be nice too, so probably a few Crafting rolls to be made. Essentially he needs nothing to survive so comes with his tools in hand and a pesky Nautolin as a friend.

Armourer or Arbiter would be interesting future options, so would Martial Artist!

Definitely sounds like an interesting character. I agree that Skip Tracer would be a good fit, and Martial Artist. The latter would be good for training classes of students in hand-to-hand combat. I'd probably eschew any F&D specs for a droid, since several of the talents would be unavailable for its use. Any ideas for a Starting character yet?

On 8/10/2017 at 3:56 PM, awayputurwpn said:

Pretty much what you'd expect! It just means they can't operate on land. So no riding the aiwha into a land war or doing cross country on its back

23 hours ago, Princess Peekaboo said:

That makes sense.

I have another question about a Mon Calamari Blaster Rifle. Does this work underwater? I got a theme going and wouldn't get something if it didn't work underwater.

This also means that it will be stuck in its "tank" when on worlds without oceans, or when we're in areas not near one.

5 hours ago, Mychal'el said:

The reason why I mentioned Mary Sue is because Tramp made me change some of my backstory because he thought it was too Mary Sue.

I changed a lot of things so that my character could fit into the stricter side of RAW to keep Tramp happy and let me play. (I would have name swapped Sathari stats with the Mandalorian name to make my original Diathim-Human Hybrid backstory work within the system)

And by that logic, a "Mandalorian Jedi" isn't Mary Sue?

I'm sorry, but playing a 2,000 XP game results in an entire party full of Mary Sues and you're flying around in a Mary Sue starship. I thought this was obvious!

Would love to see your Diathim backstory sometime if you'd like to share. Just out of curiosity.

2 hours ago, awayputurwpn said:

And by that logic, a "Mandalorian Jedi" isn't Mary Sue?

I'm sorry, but playing a 2,000 XP game results in an entire party full of Mary Sues and you're flying around in a Mary Sue starship. I thought this was obvious!

Would love to see your Diathim backstory sometime if you'd like to share. Just out of curiosity.

Oh I totally agree. The concept sounds very Mary Sue on paper but that's why I play him with personality flaws. I was referring to not wanting the personalities, story and character relationships to be Mary Sue at least.

1 hour ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Definitely sounds like an interesting character. I agree that Skip Tracer would be a good fit, and Martial Artist. The latter would be good for training classes of students in hand-to-hand combat. I'd probably eschew any F&D specs for a droid, since several of the talents would be unavailable for its use. Any ideas for a Starting character yet?

Oh Droid + FaD doesn't worry me in the slightest, of course I wouldn't get something completely filled with Force Talents, but there are some excellent options. Investigator, Advisor, Shi Cho Knight, Makashi Dualist, Armourer (Soak 11 with Supreme Armour Master!!!) and Arbiter are all on my list of possibilities. Top of the FaD list though is Teacher, this character can't use those final talents, but it has so many ranks in a broad variety is skills that the Skilled Teacher talent is extremely appealing.

For the other character I'm unsure, I think a social character would be interesting, Arbiter perhaps since it has captured my imagination since release. I really like the idea of a Lightsaber character who doesn't want to use it, and when they do it's to end the fight quickly without anyone being injured. I think it would pair well with the right side of Sentry as well as the Improved Saber Throw talent. FR 3, destroying enemies weapons from long range. So pump up Willpower and Brawn with an overall focus on Presence. Possibly a Chagrian

I'd say Mary sue in a role playing game stems from power-gaming and gm-fiat. From my perspective, unique story elements that don't provide an munchkin advantage isn't Mary sue. As in a narrative cross species test tube baby clone that refluffs a Sathari is fine by me. I'd also be okay with my pcs playing the classic movie protagonist in an alternate universe campaign. For example, let's say anakin didn't stop mace from killing palpaitine. We know from the clone wars that Darth maul survived being cut in half and is a craft mofó to boot, so he becomes the new big bad sith and reorganizes a separatist type deal, maybe he even finds out about order 66... or maybe the Republic senate doesn't believe Palpatine is a sith and executes order 66... in those scenarios the pcs playing Luke or Leia as Jedi trained by an akin and obiwan on the run 20 years later or han sólo is fine with me. The alternate universe thing is there to give the players the freedom to choose and not be bound by the movies.

4 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

The alternate universe thing is there to give the players the freedom to choose and not be bound by the movies.

The "what if" scenarios are very fun and have inspired real life comic books and novels.

4 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

I'd say Mary sue in a role playing game stems from power-gaming and gm-fiat. From my perspective, unique story elements that don't provide an munchkin advantage isn't Mary sue. As in a narrative cross species test tube baby clone that refluffs a Sathari is fine by me.

I know you're fine with the refluff but Tramp wouldn't have it, so I made my character a Human with Human stats for this campaign to keep Tramp happy so he would let me play.

I'm just asking for similar consideration to keep me happy. If all the PCs automatically got along and didn't argue that would be too convenient and their relationship would be boring. Even little kid shows start off with some conflict between main characters.

19 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

This also means that it will be stuck in its "tank" when on worlds without oceans, or when we're in areas not near one.

Good thing it can fly too!

2 hours ago, Princess Peekaboo said:

Good thing it can fly too!

Yes, but only relatively short distances, at least according to the text in Stay on Target , and it can't land on solid ground . It needs to land in water . That is the down side of a fully aquatic companion.

Now, on Ossus , there are submerged caverns and tunnels in the Imhar Canyon, so there are at least some relatively large bodies of water on the planet. The canyon is a few days walk from the ruins of the Great Library. I don't know if Aiwha require salt water or can function in both fresh and salt water.

This was Ossus before the Chron Supernova:

This is Ossus today (though it's ecosystem has been slowly recovering):

However, on Mandalore and Concordia , I don't believe there are any such large bodies of water. Mandalore is almost entirely desert, and Concordia is mostly mountains and forests. I don't know about any other planets we might be travelling to though.

20 hours ago, Richardbuxton said:

Oh Droid + FaD doesn't worry me in the slightest, of course I wouldn't get something completely filled with Force Talents, but there are some excellent options. Investigator, Advisor, Shi Cho Knight, Makashi Dualist, Armourer (Soak 11 with Supreme Armour Master!!!) and Arbiter are all on my list of possibilities. Top of the FaD list though is Teacher, this character can't use those final talents, but it has so many ranks in a broad variety is skills that the Skilled Teacher talent is extremely appealing.

For the other character I'm unsure, I think a social character would be interesting, Arbiter perhaps since it has captured my imagination since release. I really like the idea of a Lightsaber character who doesn't want to use it, and when they do it's to end the fight quickly without anyone being injured. I think it would pair well with the right side of Sentry as well as the Improved Saber Throw talent. FR 3, destroying enemies weapons from long range. So pump up Willpower and Brawn with an overall focus on Presence. Possibly a Chagrian

That would work. We could also use a dedicated Healer , if someone else doesn't fill that role.

28 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

That would work. We could also use a dedicated Healer , if someone else doesn't fill that role.

Bacta patches are a thing, you know. We can always "Wand of CLW" this thing.