8 hours ago, Spraug said:

Actually, imho the market is what counts. If they expect to sell 50% plus in the US then they should use American. If they sell >50% in Europe and the rest of the world (not sure what Canada uses) then metric makes more sense.

Since most Americans should be able to think in metric distances, and distances would likely be the vast majority of measurements in the game (aside from time), I think metric just makes more sense, regardless of whether the US is 50% of the market.

45 minutes ago, TheSapient said:

Since most Americans should be able to think in metric distances

You might be surprised by that. Ye Olde Educational System isn't what it used to be.

10 hours ago, Spraug said:

If they sell >50% in Europe and the rest of the world (not sure what Canada uses) then metric makes more sense.

Canada uses metric...started the conversion the same time as the US but then the Americans retreated into backward traditionalism.

1 hour ago, whafrog said:

Canada uses metric...started the conversion the same time as the US but then the Americans retreated into backward traditionalism.

WHAT! LOL, we'd never do that....

*pout* just say'n.

14 hours ago, Spraug said:

Ahhh, of course 18th century. Now with the metric system we have a system that is scientifically backed (no, we don't need a "role-model" kg anymore and it is independent of gravity, pressure or material). Now what about the American or Imperial? Not so easy.

And there is the "relevance" to natural life. You don't calculate a lot in your natural life, do you? In metric, when I pour 1t of sand on an area of 2 by 2.5m (and distribute it evenly) that is 1 000 000 g on 50 000cm-square (how do I type "to the power of again?) or 20g/cm-square. Please make the same calculation in your head with 1 imperial ton on 2 * 2.5 yards and give me the result in pounds per inch. While you're at it: if I pour 10 000 liters of water into said container the water will be 20cm deep. How deep in inch will be the water when I pour 1000 gallons into a 2 by 2.5 yard container? In your head please and accurate. Thank you.

Indeed that covers it quite nicely. As mentioned before it is supposed to be generic (explicitly including Steampunk and SciFi) so it would have to be metric of course.

Actually, imho the market is what counts. If they expect to sell 50% plus in the US then they should use American. If they sell >50% in Europe and the rest of the world (not sure what Canada uses) then metric makes more sense.

Scientifically Backed? Really? Try it's "Used by a lot of scientists." If I were a scientist, I would certainly use it on the job, but I'd never use it when cooking.

You also lost me on both of your math examples. Part of your problem was that I don't use the metric system. So I have absolutely no frame of reference as to what you're talking about with the water question.

I also don't store water (or any other liquids) in great quantity, nor do I spread sand for a living. If I did, I might be able to follow your examples better.

And I remember learning how to calculate using both systems in high school and while I'll admit that its easier with the metric system, the steps are actually the same as with the American Imperial system. There are just some odd conversion points that you need to keep in mind.

I did hint that the metric system's invention has a dubious nefarious past, and that's my primary point of contention. I'll leave it at that. I've got no issues with you spending a life using the metric system. I'm not going to.

As for "Generic and inclusive genres" , the actual Generic Universal Role Playing System uses the Imperial American measurements.

As for the Market, the USA purchases 70%+ of all products on this planet. That may be a pain point for a lot of you OCONUS, but we are successful primarily because we eschewed everything about the "French Revolution" . . . Including the Metric System.

1 hour ago, Mark Caliber said:

I did hint that the metric system's invention has a dubious nefarious past, and that's my primary point of contention.

Of course it does...but so what? The base "metre" is an arbitrary value based on selected physical phenomena. So is Celsius, but at least it's pegged to very common events in the human experience (0 = freezing, 100 = boiling). Any measurement and increments we come up with to model the world are going to be arbitrary.

But ultimately, the point of it is that it's base-10, which is easier for most people to calculate.

1 hour ago, Mark Caliber said:

As for the Market, the USA purchases 70%+ of all products on this planet. That may be a pain point for a lot of you OCONUS, but we are successful primarily because we eschewed everything about the "French Revolution" . . . Including the Metric System.

Urfl...

2 hours ago, Mark Caliber said:

As for the Market, the USA purchases 70%+ of all products on this planet. That may be a pain point for a lot of you OCONUS, but we are successful primarily because we eschewed everything about the "French Revolution" . . . Including the Metric System.

oh so many assumptions here.

1) Yes, but whereas they're on the 5th republic after previous ones failed, you remain on a first, very broken, republic

2) It's not 70% of goods. It's based on a relative comparison of goods in GDP terms, which falls into the same trap using GDP as a metric has because it will always weight the US more highly (PPP is a more reliable index). So basically the US' #1 position is because it has about US$1.7tn more in goods than China at #2, but China produces more net goods.

Given the biggest contributor to this is high end medical equipment and military equipment, both of which are incredibly pricey on a per-unit basis and in the case of military goods, tends to be sold in bulk.

It would be like saying the "US has the biggest economy in the world!" It's only true if you use a weighted index and don't address the biases inherent in them; if you use it on PPP, which relates the output and per capita wealth to the cost of goods and services domestically, China is #1. Same as in net goods produced, China is #1, but in net value of goods produced, USA is #1.

3) Despite being motivated by, funded by, and guided by France, your revolution's biggest break was the English language. And an entree is never a main course, ever. Ever.

I love how intense this discussion is getting, considering it's about measurements in a game which will most likely not even use any

This may end up becoming the dumbest threadlock I've seen since trawling the FFG forums.

16 minutes ago, kaosoe said:

This may end up becoming the dumbest threadlock I've seen since trawling the FFG forums.

Didn't the infinite backpack thread get locked? At least that one was relevant, this one has just gotten F-ing infantile.

Guys, be reasonable. For too long the American Imperial - so, not even actual Imperial measurements, just made up ones - has been protected by the might of the US military from the rigourous onslaught of common sense. We FFG forum posters finally have an opportunity to defeat it once and for all, and like anything where statistics (such as earlier discussion on manufacturing output) can be brought to bear, we will argue it.

This is too important for a lock.

10 hours ago, Endersai said:

Guys, be reasonable. For too long the American Imperial - so, not even actual Imperial measurements, just made up ones - has been protected by the might of the US military from the rigourous onslaught of common sense. We FFG forum posters finally have an opportunity to defeat it once and for all, and like anything where statistics (such as earlier discussion on manufacturing output) can be brought to bear, we will argue it.

This is too important for a lock.

I hope we can solve this horrible conundrum in this here roleplaying game forum about a game that hasn't actually been released yet. Humanity's greatest minds are here, after all.

13 hours ago, Endersai said:

3) Despite being motivated by, funded by, and guided by France, your revolution's biggest break was the English language. And an entree is never a main course, ever. Ever.

Well, the French could be speaking German right now.

4 hours ago, themensch said:

Well, the French could be speaking German right now.

True despite them being a dictatorship at the time, we owe the Russians a lot.

20 hours ago, Mark Caliber said:

Scientifically Backed? Really? Try it's "Used by a lot of scientists." If I were a scientist, I would certainly use it on the job, but I'd never use it when cooking.

You also lost me on both of your math examples. Part of your problem was that I don't use the metric system. So I have absolutely no frame of reference as to what you're talking about with the water question.

[...]

Just very briefly - because we'll never be on the same side here anyway - and just to make my intent clear, not to persuade you.

1) All metric scales have a scientific backing. They may be odd (e.g. metre), but they exist. Contrastingly the "inch" for example is only defined in relation to the metre.

2) The math examples illustrate that calculating in metric is easier, because of the decimal system.

Those were my only points.

But whoever posted that Genesys will probably not use ANY numeric system is probably right anyway.

Wrote post. Remembered I don't care. Removed post.

54 minutes ago, Spraug said:

2) The math examples illustrate that calculating in metric is easier, because of the decimal system.

For who? The college student in chemistry class or the Pentium chip running the CNC milling machine? The former absolutely, the latter, it doesn't care at all.....

46 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

For who?

For me.

I don't believe that Genesys need a metric system, even being so generic that could be used in 5 ou 6 different "ages". The bands has a sufficient amount of information for my taste to be used and provide a good amount of information in terms of distance. Genesys is more narrative and less milimetrical...

2 hours ago, whafrog said:

For me.

Do you actually measure anything? Do any actual math? or do you use a calculator and a computer, read the weather on Google, buy the standardized size already manufactured for you? Because that's all doing the math for you, you aren't actually doing anything.

Most people don't do any math with measurements. You may measure out a cup or use your 236.588 ml portion tool making cookies, but at the end of the day you're just reading a recipe. You're just looking at the weather report. You aren't doing any math.

How does moving a decimal point help me when I am trying to decide between a 29"/73.66cm table leg in my shop or 30"/76.2 cm? The answer is it doesn't help me at all.

We invented micro-processors, industry is all computer controlled CNC milling, laser cutting, machines for subtractive manufacturing, or the growing 3D printing additive manufacturing. Regardless, we don't do the math, the friggin computer does, and it does it at the speed of light and more accurately than we can, and it doesn't give two squirts of tepid unicorn piss whether it's Imperial, Metric, or Quatloos.

This coversation is F-ing insane.

I never understood why Americans say "the math". It's a contraction of mathematic s , not mathematic...

1 hour ago, Endersai said:

I never understood why Americans say "the math". It's a contraction of mathematic s , not mathematic...

Surely colloquialisms in your native tongue are subject to the same lackadaisical rules.

Ours are mostly just amplified British ones, or follow the same structural approach as British slang because they're still the biggest influence on our speaking (by way of being the largest migrant group).

Most of the slang and local idiomatic changes I can at least understand in context - for example, the use of the term "entree" in restaurants is technically incorrect but given the etymology I can see why it's done and chalk it up to the Franco-German influences. Knowing you say "restroom" or "cheque", too. But "math"? I just can't see how it works.

I suspect it comes via math class. While mathematics may be plural, I would suggest that the class came to be referred to as its own singular thing, math class. From there, the stuff done in that class also ended up being referred to as singular.

Thats my best guess with 10 minutes thought.

I can't believe all of this discussion on the metric system and not a bit of discussion on how they will use hyphens. What hyphenated words will Genesys bring? What words will it close?

14 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

I can't believe all of this discussion on the metric system and not a bit of discussion on how they will use hyphens. What hyphenated words will Genesys bring? What words will it close?

It's because there's no decimal involved with hyphens....very unappealing....