MarcoPulleaux said:

Oh don't worry I will be. I mean I love this game but I've had enough. Crap rules and rulings, crap card wording, crap prize support, rules moderatior calling people fuckwits and arguing with them. Sounds like a game I want to play! I've never seen a game with such piss poor handeling of the rules. I mean it's the ******* core thing of the game and they haven't gotten anything right in 3 some years. No FAQ (I know Goth has been working hard on rules and they have changed this lately so no offense to him) but that sticky in the rules forum is no FAQ, and it took like what 2 1/2 years to get an updated tournament rules that offically changed that if you failed a card it would actually go to your discard pile instead of stay in your hand. Rullings have been changed then changed back and back again so many times it isn't funny (but no one remembers these things for some reason, and I can't prove it because we get a new fourm every year). The game was in such terrible shape they banned 14 some cards over three months and it still didn't fix it so they hit the big reset button, those are all bad signs to matter what way you try to spin it. There is no communication from anyone in the company (no call them is not a option, I shouldn't have to ******* call them to get my questions answered, or to ask them whats going on with this game?). No SotG for like 2 months, and when there is one it's a "nothing new this month". Are Steve or James even alive? Does FFG even care about UFS? What are they doing for this game? There really hasn't been any kind of news about anything besides when the pre-relrease was and some spoilers (6 cards whhhhhoopie!) for months. I've looked past this crap and supported the hell out of this game for far too long, this just isn't even fun anymore. I think it sucks that the UFS players are being treated this way, but I'm jumping ship before the boat sinks, trust me I've been down this road before *cough* Raw Deal *cough* (block 4 it Revolution Light, getting the game "back to the basics" and basicly rereleasing wattered down versions of old cards with a new name) I don't like the way this is going to end.

I seriously can't believe this thread or that people are indicating any type of dis taste for the game. It is doing extremely well here where I am, our playgroup grows monthly and over 30 boxes of product are sold and some received at/before prerelease...

Financial Troubles is so bad I have taken it out of my competitive decks, it is 'only' useful if you have 2 or 3 out in our playgroup (which with games going turn 3-6 we don't see often enough to matter) - are you guys all running 6hs without draw or something and leaving your opponent alive with little life on failed kill turns??? Standoff is next, it just keeps failing me, I need damage, don't have enough to stun 6 to get my enhance through, well ain't that lovely, standoff does jack.

Path of the Master is nigh worthless now that 'Defeated the Rifle' is out. Uh, every turn with one of these if you can deal 1 damage you destory an asset for a commit? If your opponent doesn't have an asset you get speed and damage? Uh... yeah, Path is officially an afterthought and really only valuable if you don't need it to kill, some decks use it almost religiously to obtain enough damage to kill. Our Hata with Defeated the Rifle is deadly sick, speed and zone change to deal damage, well he just doesn't worry about assets any more.

Prelease spoils, store tourney articles and releases (Kilik), fight kits, etc. I think there is serious exaggeration if you think there has been nothing of late, and in the UFS offseason - not unexpected. Our main tourney season has and likely always will be spring/summer because of the playerbase (some in school) and the event metrics.

People really need to realize how good we got it, the way our playgroup has been relishing every new set and block 4. Can't wait for updates, and can't wait till the next tourney I play in.

- dut

MarcoPulleaux said:

I actually think Turn 3 makes for a pretty good target death turn. By turn 4, there's simply too much potential for someone to have dropped too many foundations, and often in just the right combination to do something absurd - either offensively or defensively. Usually my Lu Chen build will stabilise by about turn 4-5ish and solidify its defenses in order to guarantee an eventual win, even in block 4 play.

"rules moderatior calling people fuckwits and arguing with them."

I ain't no rules moderator.

But you'd think you would've known that, considering your whole spiel about how aware you are of what's going on with this game. Heh.

In all honesty we don't need a SToG. Usually SOTG are for something big and not just for minor chit chat. An Errata can be fowarded to the Rules Aribter and don't have to decreed like some type of proclamation. In all honesty you all have a weird understanding of what a STOG is.

The talk points to a bigger problem. Poor community involvement by FFG for this game. I've heard less from developers other games I've played but in that game the designers were in japan. Thing is that when you are trying to keep a game on life support you need to give it some TLC and bed side manor. But that is not going on right now. So we are stuck with people moving toward their natural tendancies.

There isn't anything that needs to be said for a while. PS is going to suck until they go through their alotment of prize support for the quarter/year or until they clean out their PS stock. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that out. Major bans and erratas are not going to happen unless Hata and the playtesters just didn't give a crap for a set. I doubt that would happen. Path won't get banned or errata because it would scare people away from going to big tournies hosted by FFG. Ultimately the winner of those events can make decent cash selling their champ cards. Once we get some more speed solutions and enhance or static text negation the better off we will be and that is ways down the line. Overall the game is better off then people think.

Being a judge in heroclix and a scout in this game I have to say half of the problems in the community is the communities fault. This goes for online and local. If your local meta is dying tell your scout to grow a pair and local ban cards. It is better to have local rules and have a playgroup then to not ban cards and don't have a playgroup at all. Ban or un-ban its up to your group but do what you need to keep your group. Next play some dang alt formats people. The thing that lacks in the community is creativity. The min/maxing doesn't change. Force people to play different cards Scouts. Ban individuals from playing a character for more then 1 one week in a row. Have a tournament where people play a different deck each round. Do something but don't ***** because FFG doesn't jack you off and lay your cards on play mat of gold. Folks need to stop being so dependent on FFG, Steve, and Hata to fix things and stop being lazy fools and fix the crap themselves. I found it true in undergrad and in life. People want others to do for them. People who decide to do can lead around those who have no drive. That can be good or bad. In this case there are a lot of e-thugs/e-pundits who have more time to write paragraphs on how the game sucks and its dying then to contribute something to make it live.

dutpotd said:

Why do I not believe those comments... oh wait because you got into a 3 page troll/counter troll fest with polio when about them, and after saying you would never run them, you run them like they were a religious icon...

Tagrineth said:

Oh sorry ex-rules moderatior then? Imean you sure as hell make a lot of rulings in the forums still, yeah? Same differacne.

darklogos said:

I am the scout here and I have done a heck of a lot to grow the game here. We use to have 12+ player tourneys every week, for the past two years it's been like 3-4 people. None of us complain about "broken cards" I've almost never complained about a card like that. Just no one here wan'ts so play. I'm tired of trying to get new players and nothing happens. We had that big anniversary thing not one new person showed up. I'm just not some "e-punk" trying to hate on the game, I have some real concerns with how things are going right now and I just don't think the game is going to last much longer. I mean I wish the hell it wasn't like this because this game is great and that is what makes me most mad that they continue to crap on this game and we are just suppose to be fine and dandy with it. And anytime someone speaks out against it they are just some troll or something?

kiit said:

If you read my report you would see it was the most useless card in the Hilde that won our store champs. Needless to say, I was even pushing for it out of the Hata builds we do.

I didn't say I would 'never' run them, I said they aren't worthy of the complaints people were issuing before it even saw playtime... I'm saying my position has changed even more so as of now, seeing that when I thought they could be useful they aren't.

What you choose to believe and what you don't is your own issue, if you listened to me sooner about other things you would likely avoid predicaments you later found yourself in. You might actually beat me again one day too.

- dut

UFS doesn't have a huge following out here in the SF Bay Area by any stretch of the imagination. Normally, we get 4 - 6 players weekly at the two shops (that's 4 - 6 at both events, usually the same 4 - 6 players...heh), and Prize Support isn't outrageously huge either.

That said, this game has NEVER been more balanced, nor more enjoyable. Control is getting some interesting pieces, and Aggro decks are needing to be tuned to kill by T4, lest they be "locked" out. No, it isn't the same Control that was so brutally boring...instead, NewFS' Control is designed to shut down only certain aspects of play (not total negation) that make it more challenging for Aggro decks to establish kill.

Also, the players who play this game are some of the friendliest (and funny) bunch of blokes i've had a chance to hang with.

So, for me...i'm gonna keep playing this game, and refuse to join in with the naysayers.

I think most everyone else here needs to chill out.

RockStar said:

I think the biggest problem is that we're not seeing the same things.

Calgary (and I'm using dut's post as example) has seen regular prize support and a massive growth of the playerbase, while other metas (like yours) see little to no growth.

We're not even going to get into prize support and certain perceived inequity (we still haven't gotten ours yet, waiting on the e-mail Monday to find out what is up with that guys), but some metas are burnt out and no longer have a large amount of possible players. Couple that with a few issues not being addressed, and... well, you can see where the frustration comes for certain players.

I can get where most of the frustration comes from : I've got a few of them as well, mostly tied to prize support and various other business not being addressed, but with the information I have I can't really complain (much) about it. The thing is, we've said time and time again that it's counter-productive to air your grievances on the forums for two reasons :

1) They don't read the forums.
2) It fuels the company's belief that the forums are a cesspool of negativity (though I'm hardly one to be a moral authority on that one because I've aired my share of grievances in public).

* * *

Also, why should there be a December SotG?

- Store championships are almost over and there's been talks before that after those come the City championships - more information is required and now would be a good time to address this so we can gear up for these and make them as awesome as they deserve to be.

- No information on the next set. Why not give people something to salivate forwards?

- With no November SotG, it'd be a great way to address the players and wish them Happy Holidays with a more... "personal" touch (hopefully not in the form of an action card)

- Reflection on the past year is always interesting, and what we can expect in 2010 coming forward in a more general sense.

Hell, I'd dare say I see no reason for having no SotG in December.

For everyone trying to figure out whats going on, here's a summary of the last 4 pages:

Whine, whine, whine, debreath, whine, doom say, and a side of whine. That is all.

Halbard100 said:

Reminds me I will be so drunk in my wednesday course.

People really should chill out about this thing. Yes there are issues that need to be adress in the game, but us bitching about it is not going to solve anything. If Fantasy Flight wants to keep their game alive they will do something.

Yes Financial Troubles and Rivalry With A Bear are a pain in the ass and something needs to be done about them. Stand Off can really screw both players over if not used correctly. I can think of plenty of times were using Stand Off has screwed me. It's not that big of a deal.

As for Path of The Master, the card is perfectly fine. Yes most players use it to get a significant damage pump to kill people or just soley for card draw, it's not that bad. With the few cards in Mitsurugi's support, and the couple other cards in previous sets, there is enough to get rid of. My only issue with it is when you have a character like Hatta who enhances with a card like Defeated the Rifle, uses his react, then reacts of Path of The Master to draw. A little to broken if you ask me.

And speaking of Hatta, that brings me to my next two points: Speed and Throws. The cards in the game produce to much speed, and there is not enough to stop it. We need a couple more cards other than the two that nerf speed. Also the second one is situtational because it requires the attack to shar 2 symbols with the character. But since most people run Path of The Master , the attack will most likely share two symbols. and for throws, We need a few more cards like Strange Fashion to help midigate the damage form them and characters like King will mellow out.

I hope people will read this and think about what they're saying before they run their mouths.

blades0fbl00d said:

I don't see anything in there that would make anyone reconsider their stance. Sorry.

Was August the last SOTG posted? Thats the only one I see pinned.

JDub said:

Not "same difference" at all.

Just because I'm pretty knowledgeable about the game's rules, doesn't mean I can't call a spade a spade, as I did earlier in this thread.

I'm not tied to FFG in any official capacity, and I have no reason to pull my punches in a case like that one (seriously, he told the entire community to L2P because we apparently never tried to play around Chesters/Mentoring/Bitter/etc.? playing them and playing around them was the entire format... god)

Tagrineth said:

You weren't an official rules person for STG? Level III Judge? I don't think we have ever had an "official rules person" but your pretty **** close. I don't think anyone that does the rules is on the FFG payroll or anything, Antigoth, Omar they don't work for FFG but they are rules guys.

@Jdub: What non-standard events have you ran? What cards did you ban from play? What caused your players to leave and not come back? What limitations or campaigns did you run in a month? Did you ever do an deck exchange tourney? There are so many good ideas that could be done but I don't see any scouts asking for help. I don't see anyone asking for other ideas. I hear people saying they tried but don't show what they did with the acutal game play to change things. House Rules saves playgroups. If you know you are not going to try to be the next FFG champ then houses are for you. You don't like the rules change them. You don't like the bans, unban them. FFG isn't following up and making sure your running x format in your games. Post your house rule changes for visitors to see and go at it. Yes its work but its worth it. You have fun. The best games of heroclix I've had with my friends where non-format scenrio/campaign games with theme teams. Yes miniatures do better in that format but get creative and try something and share your ideas.

JDub said:

At one point in time Tag was an official rules Arbiter.

However due to his conduct, Tag was formally removed from his position as a rules Arbiter more then 6 months ago. Since Tag was removed he has chosen to remove any restraint from his conduct because like yourself he is a private forum goer.

Currently Omar, Kevin, and Myself are the only official Arbiters for UFS.

Tag is nothing more then another UFS forum troll like Shinji or Hatman. He just happens to be more useful and will correctly answer rules question more often then not. If you have issues with someones conduct on the forum, I would strongly recommend that you use the report to Moderator Function.

Homme Chapeau said:

Well, to be fair, we are seeing a slight growth in our local areas. Game Kastle in Santa Clara, where i co-hosted the Silicon Cup: Battle for the Bay Regional Event only recently got a new Scout (I was supposed to be that guy, but had a HUGE falling out with the former Scout - my former best friend). With us in the thick of the Holiday Season, everyone in our playgroup has been hit or miss with attendance, but that is to be excpected.

We are actually meeting in a few hours for our weekly tournament, and it's at a new time: Immediately following the Pokemon league (has a regular attendance of 30 - 45 players EVERY Sunday). The store manager has fielded more than a few questions from the Pokemon players about UFS, so there is opportunity to grow this game again in our local meta...we've all just been pressed to find times for us to Demo.

That won't be a problem, however, as we head into the new year. I will certainly keep everyone posted about how things are going...

I also have to agree with you: I want a December SotG, if for no other reason than to hear about what the next Set is going to be. If we're on a 3-month schedule for new Sets being released, than i would certainly like to know what's in store!

For my $$ i would LOVE to have a Street Fighter IV set dropped on us. Barring that, i'd love to see another Tekken or ShadoWar set, with Tekken being my preference. That game has some really strong characters that need to make an appearance: Law (JKD ftw, baby!) and Lei Wu Long (5 Animal Style Kung Fu...can you say Tira-like mechanic??) are two of my faves and certainly belong in UFS!!

And, yea, an end of the year re-cap and some vision-casting going forward would be really great!

RockStar said:

Here, it's the same as usual. We've pretty much exhausted the amount of potential players, so growth can't come from that part. We'd need to have a new store with a few potential competitive players and a strong casual base to perhaps move Sundays there, but I doubt that a store that's given us so much of it's time and shelf space would be willing to have us play Sundays somewhere else.

Other than frustration from the players due to prize support (which we're thinking might be held at the border for some strange reason, much like the release boxes are at the moment), I can honestly say we're doing fine over here. The players are well-informed even if they do not post (and they inform themselves which means less job for me!), they play well and are generally fine people (although for the most part you lot will never find that out mwahahahahaha) and other than little ol' unsecure me, we've yet to really be part of any sort of drama.

* * *

Also, I'd like to address my usefulness (as 'gothy-goth-goth (read as playful and not as condescending, please) mentioned Tag's usefulness as opposed to mine and Shinji's) - I'd love to have some, but I've got nothing I can bring.

Antigoth said:

Thank you sir, couldn't have put it better myself. lol

well, time to weigh-in on the matters at hand...

#1) So, the thread is about predicting the December state of the game address. Umm...am I the only one who knows what day it is? Frankly, State of the Game addresses ought to be published in the same fashion of paying rent: at the end of the month. Why? Because that gives them time to, y'know, observe the actual month and act accordingly. Of course, I feel there's plenty to discuss having skipped a month's "rent" so to speak, but the point remains, you guys appear to be expecting something when we're not even a full 7 days into the month. Also, I'm sure they're busy finalizing whatever they're busy with because I'm pretty certain they're going to get yet another holiday break this month.

#2) Bannings, erratas, and other such banter. Frankly, all this talk needs to have its own independent thread because, at that point, nobody can say "we're clogging the thread with unnecessary debate" like I am now. Most cards people are mentioning have already been discussed to death, and once again, further discussion should have its own thread. We all know "the power cards". A card becomes a power card due to obvious and otherwise "universal/no-brainer" inclusion into decks, and continue to see play in mainstream and large-scale tournaments. It will always be the nature of card games, and in this game, we have 12 symbols that have their own "power cards". No card that is good now will see any less play due to another card's existence (until, obviously, other cards come out that might plague its usage).

#3) Maybe I'm alone in this, but am I the only one who will openly say that most other card games don't give any direct talk to its players AT ALL?! I've played Yugioh and Pokemon competitively, and have never once seen "direct discussion" to its players, yet we very selfishly demand direct discussion even when we're all FULLY aware that isn't really going to happen. I've heard from everybody that James Hata uses AIM frequently and WILL talk to you about UFS, as will the "professional" players that have a tad more insight into the game (due to Hata's 'apparent' willingness to divulge information to them). That aside, really, stop being impatient and stop being selfish.

#4) Much like darklogos and Rock Star have pretty much covered, if your playerbase is diminishing, find out why. Card games are an extremely money-based hobby, and that's the biggest concern you ought to have on your mind. Money aside, what else is bothering the players? Also, what are your player's expectations? If it's to play a fun game, I sincerely don't understand what their problem could be. If they want amazing prize support (money, game consoles, etc), a giant OMFG playerbase, etc, this isn't their game. Much like fighting games themselves, they're a true niche genre, but once involved, you get hooked, you get competitive, and you meet amazing people.

So to finish up, once again, it disheartens me to see that people are so whiney they can't just enjoy the great game they have the privelege to be involved with. I've never seen a game with more balance, appeal, etc, and its gone down the slippery slope to ultimate bitchery. Yes, it's going to be a hard climb out of this card game depression, but we have a new leader in charge, and he's going to be the change we need, but if you aren't patient, well then maybe this isn't your game.

And finally, sir, before you go and criticize one's conduct or effect on the community, you really ought to take your own conduct into consideration. I love how, like another fellow Canadian, you're more than willing to be eloquent, appropriate, and otherwise likeable on the forum, yet your real-life visage is piss poor, and you display the image of an impatient, egotistical sore loser who doesn't smile. I don't feel the need to randomly throw your name into the line of fire when I make my posts, so please understand, if you're going to use me as an example in a negative manner, something I take personally, then I'll be more than happy to utilize the golden rule and put your shoddy, shameful personality into public view as well. Learn to make your points without insulting others.

"#3) Maybe I'm alone in this, but am I the only one who will openly say that most other card games don't give any direct talk to its players AT ALL?! I've played Yugioh and Pokemon competitively, and have never once seen "direct discussion" to its players, yet we very selfishly demand direct discussion even when we're all FULLY aware that isn't really going to happen. I've heard from everybody that James Hata uses AIM frequently and WILL talk to you about UFS, as will the "professional" players that have a tad more insight into the game (due to Hata's 'apparent' willingness to divulge information to them). That aside, really, stop being impatient and stop being selfish."

While we don't get to talk to PCL (Pokemon Card Labs) directly, several people from PUI (Pokemon USA, Inc.) post on occasion on http://www.pokegym.net/ . I've spoken to Mike Liesik (former director of the US branch of CCG organised play, now director of the US branch of the VGC) via PMs once.

Some of the Yugioh head judges used to post on ****'s forum (VERY rarely).

It's minimal but it DOES technically exist lol

MarcoPulleaux said:

Thanks for the compliment

MarcoPulleaux said:

When my opponent refuses to follow turn order of the game.
Refused to believe me when I point out how he's playing his turn incorrectly.
Is refusing to fulfill card effects in mandatory order to try and draw more cards into hand then turn effect will allow.
Then sits there and says "But it's too late, there's no way to rectify me drawing these cards out of order."

And I have to call a judge over to explain to this player how the basic turn order of the game goes, and how to fulfill the effects of the cards hes playing as his basic combo of his deck.

After this player has waved his "prowess" all over the forum for far too long, and has told everyone how he knows the game better then everyone else, and his opinion matters more then others.

I am sorry sir, but rather then pretend to respect the person who I have no respect for; Rather then allow the person to hide behind the veil of "I'm a new UFS player who hasn't ever been in a big event before."; I instead choose to treat that same person exactly the same in person as I would online.

I have integrity. At the end of the day, if I pretended to be your friend, and respect you to your face, when that is absolutely not true, would mean that I have no integrity at the end of the day.

If I was to see Hatman on the street tomorrow, we would probably hug each right away. So I'm sorry sir, but you reap the respect that you have sown.