haha, well thanks for the links. I picked that image because it has the green clouds and the middle one even looks slightly Cthulhu-ish, but I didn't spend much time looking. Some of those in your post look awesome! I'll try a couple and see what looks good.
No problems/suggestions with the herald though?
Sothis said:
haha, well thanks for the links. I picked that image because it has the green clouds and the middle one even looks slightly Cthulhu-ish, but I didn't spend much time looking. Some of those in your post look awesome! I'll try a couple and see what looks good.
No problems/suggestions with the herald though?
Not that one. I thought it was well designed (thematically— and I thought it would make Cthulhu an exciting challenge instead of a boring blah). I have some complaints about the other herald (I'd've gotten to them sooner but my internet shorted out).
K. First of all ;') the image you used for Nyarlethotep has already been used for someone else's Ancient One. Ah... here it is. Second of all I really liked the dkw's picture ;')
http://new.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efpag=4&efid=113&efcid=1&efidt=22867
Okay, but now on to game mechanics. I like Frightful soul.
I don't think your masks attacking first players mechanics is very difficult (unless you're not calculating who will be first player). If anything that makes it easier. As does giving clue tokens for defeating mask monsters (even if it's not in the initial combat). It seems too easy to me. Also, it doesn't get enough masks into play. Fix this by having a mask ambush the first player and ANOTHER mask ambush the player who closes/seals a gate :') now *that* would be exciting!
Also, you should make masks Spawn Monsters (so they won't count against monster limit).
I went ahead with the Nyarlathotep image because that's what it's a painting of - Nyarlathotep. *shrug* Feel free to use whatever you prefer. The image is just flavor.
I don't know if I can agree that the Thousand Forms is too easy. Have you played with either Nyarlathotep herald to see? Our experience was that it is very difficult to survive getting jumped by a Mask unless you draw an easy one, or are luckily well prepared for the specific Mask drawn. And it's not always easy to see who will be jumped since players often get delayed in other worlds. And even when they don't, what are you going to do, purposely wait a turn before closing a gate? I thought of that but figured if the players really want to waste a turn to get help fighting a Mask, then that's fair and a decent strategy for a price.
In our one playtest the Masks were a major pain. We had seven or eight of them over the course of the game and got extremely lucky draws. (Multiple Black Man, no Beast, one of everything else.) But we still got pounded pretty good since it's hard to win the weird combats Masks demand when you are low on Sanity or Stamina, or your skill sliders aren't set correctly for a Luck check, etc. If we had drawn worse Masks we would have had a few people devoured instead of just one.
Anyway I like your suggestion, but I'm not conviced about the difficulty. If it turns out to be too easy I will definitely try your version. But right now it seems like it would make a difficult herald a frustrating devour fest. Lastly, the 2 Clues are to help offset the fact that there are no Elder Signs. Think it would be better as just one?
I did make Masks into spawn monsters by the way. It's written under the image.
Thanks for all the feedback! It really gives new ways to look at things.
Sothis said:
I went ahead with the Nyarlathotep image because that's what it's a painting of - Nyarlathotep. *shrug* Feel free to use whatever you prefer. The image is just flavor.
I don't know if I can agree that the Thousand Forms is too easy. Have you played with either Nyarlathotep herald to see? Our experience was that it is very difficult to survive getting jumped by a Mask unless you draw an easy one, or are luckily well prepared for the specific Mask drawn. And it's not always easy to see who will be jumped since players often get delayed in other worlds. And even when they don't, what are you going to do, purposely wait a turn before closing a gate? I thought of that but figured if the players really want to waste a turn to get help fighting a Mask, then that's fair and a decent strategy for a price.
In our one playtest the Masks were a major pain. We had seven or eight of them over the course of the game and got extremely lucky draws. (Multiple Black Man, no Beast, one of everything else.) But we still got pounded pretty good since it's hard to win the weird combats Masks demand when you are low on Sanity or Stamina, or your skill sliders aren't set correctly for a Luck check, etc. If we had drawn worse Masks we would have had a few people devoured instead of just one.
Anyway I like your suggestion, but I'm not conviced about the difficulty. If it turns out to be too easy I will definitely try your version. But right now it seems like it would make a difficult herald a frustrating devour fest. Lastly, the 2 Clues are to help offset the fact that there are no Elder Signs. Think it would be better as just one?
I did make Masks into spawn monsters by the way. It's written under the image.
Thanks for all the feedback! It really gives new ways to look at things.
::Laughter:: I'm not saying my variant would be *easy* if anything it would be very challenging (I hope). But I think a game against it would be more satisfying, and you wouldn't hear people complaining about not seeing the Masks. They would probably *all* see play.
Alright here's the new pic for Cthulhu's herald. Much more colorful this time!
A near total overhaul of Master Therion.
Sothis said:
Alright here's the new pic for Cthulhu's herald. Much more colorful this time!
Heh... This picture looks familiar ;') Oh, one question. Cultists... Do they include the BGOTWs cultists? The druid and the goats? Mmmm, and are the cultists spawn monsters (unaffected by monster limit) and do they also appear with gate surges?
I don't have Black Goat, so I don't even know what you're talking about.
I did not make Cultists spawn monsters (like I did with Nyarlathotep) because I want them to count against the monster limit. That way you get the nice side effect of a terror track that is more active. They just can't be taken as trophies.
As it's written now they don't appear with surges. However, that was one thing I noticed during the game that I considered changing. Very few Cultists came out in the second half of the game since most of the unstables were either sealed or already open. I haven't decided for sure though so let me know if you try it.
Sothis said:
I don't have Black Goat, so I don't even know what you're talking about.
I did not make Cultists spawn monsters (like I did with Nyarlathotep) because I want them to count against the monster limit. That way you get the nice side effect of a terror track that is more active. They just can't be taken as trophies.
As it's written now they don't appear with surges. However, that was one thing I noticed during the game that I considered changing. Very few Cultists came out in the second half of the game since most of the unstables were either sealed or already open. I haven't decided for sure though so let me know if you try it.
There's an easy fix for that :') make it so that once there are three seals, cultists count as spawn monsters and come out on surges :'D That'll keep the tension up.
Mmmm... Re: black goat. Monster: Child of the Goat, and Dark Druid.
Why make them count as spawn? So they no longer affect the terror track? Having them change based on seals sounds interesting...
I'd say the BG cultists wouldn't count since their flavor is so thoroughly non-Cthulhu. But "treated as a Cultist" could easily be interpreted to mean they do count, so it would take special text on the herald to prevent them from being used for sure. I hesitate to add text just for that so I think I'll just leave it, and players can use them or not as they please. Much simpler AND less text clutter.
lol I see the Child's ability makes you delayed. Busy making out with her or what? XD
Alright I simply added "or surges" to the Cult ability. Now Cultists come out on gate openings and monster surges, and always count against the Terror limit. I don't think this will make the terror unmanageable since you need to keep Cultists under control anyway (or they become too strong).
Sothis said:
Why make them count as spawn? So they no longer affect the terror track? Having them change based on seals sounds interesting...
I'd say the BG cultists wouldn't count since their flavor is so thoroughly non-Cthulhu. But "treated as a Cultist" could easily be interpreted to mean they do count, so it would take special text on the herald to prevent them from being used for sure. I hesitate to add text just for that so I think I'll just leave it, and players can use them or not as they please. Much simpler AND less text clutter.
lol I see the Child's ability makes you delayed. Busy making out with her or what? XD
No! That would be sick! Monsterous! Inhuman! LOVECRAFTIAN! ::Loses three sanity points::
---
The reason to make them spawn is so that they won't be effected by the monster limit and can keep popping out (in small games, say two-four investigators the monster limit is at such a low level, who cares if you get a -5 modifier on your cultists, they still won't be able to do more than one damage per failure unless you're fighting yig— although they would be pretty tough with the right herald ::cough cough:: Tulszcha). This means that you could have a -6, or -10 combat modifier on a cultist if you don't exterminate them properly :'D It'll also keep them from preventing any other type of monster from coming out (and yes, I would include the BG cultists if the herald didn't specifically say to exclude them— goats with tentacles are double sexy). That's why I'd count them as spawn.
Errr another easy fix would be boosting cultists combat damage to two or three.
Avi_dreader said:
Sothis said:
Why make them count as spawn? So they no longer affect the terror track? Having them change based on seals sounds interesting...
I'd say the BG cultists wouldn't count since their flavor is so thoroughly non-Cthulhu. But "treated as a Cultist" could easily be interpreted to mean they do count, so it would take special text on the herald to prevent them from being used for sure. I hesitate to add text just for that so I think I'll just leave it, and players can use them or not as they please. Much simpler AND less text clutter.
lol I see the Child's ability makes you delayed. Busy making out with her or what? XD
No! That would be sick! Monsterous! Inhuman! LOVECRAFTIAN! ::Loses three sanity points::
---
The reason to make them spawn is so that they won't be effected by the monster limit and can keep popping out (in small games, say two-four investigators the monster limit is at such a low level, who cares if you get a -5 modifier on your cultists, they still won't be able to do more than one damage per failure unless you're fighting yig— although they would be pretty tough with the right herald ::cough cough:: Tulszcha). This means that you could have a -6, or -10 combat modifier on a cultist if you don't exterminate them properly :'D It'll also keep them from preventing any other type of monster from coming out (and yes, I would include the BG cultists if the herald didn't specifically say to exclude them— goats with tentacles are double sexy). That's why I'd count them as spawn.
Errr another easy fix would be boosting cultists combat damage to two or three.
It appears that the main focus of them is to clog the monster limit and raise the terror level, so making them spawn eliminates that. They would also be dangerous in your version, but in a different sense. It seems as though the two of your are discussing two different mechanics entirely... perhaps two versions of the herald? One for terror and one for hordes of super cultists.
Yeah I think you're right, Message, we're going after two different things.
I understand what you're saying Avi, but I don't think I'll make them spawn. I really want them to be a terror track problem, and I think they're strong enough without more combat damage. After all you really can't avoid killing them for long since they're very difficult to Sneak. If you deliberately avoided them until there were six or seven, you'd have no way of moving around Arkham anymore since Cultists are automatically moving through the streets every turn. Can't sneak them, and there's a bunch, AND you have monsters piling up in the Outskirts... That's pretty much the incentive to keep their numbers down that I was going for. And if there's already too many monsters so Cultists keep going to the Outskirts, even better! They go back to the sheet every time the terror goes up, and start coming out again. In our games we never leave monsters unchecked long enough to cause major terror problems. This would just make it a little more difficult to keep monster numbers down, and with a monster type that is thematic.
Sothis said:
Yeah I think you're right, Message, we're going after two different things.
I understand what you're saying Avi, but I don't think I'll make them spawn. I really want them to be a terror track problem, and I think they're strong enough without more combat damage. After all you really can't avoid killing them for long since they're very difficult to Sneak. If you deliberately avoided them until there were six or seven, you'd have no way of moving around Arkham anymore since Cultists are automatically moving through the streets every turn. Can't sneak them, and there's a bunch, AND you have monsters piling up in the Outskirts... That's pretty much the incentive to keep their numbers down that I was going for. And if there's already too many monsters so Cultists keep going to the Outskirts, even better! They go back to the sheet every time the terror goes up, and start coming out again. In our games we never leave monsters unchecked long enough to cause major terror problems. This would just make it a little more difficult to keep monster numbers down, and with a monster type that is thematic.
::Sigh:: at least boost their combat damage by one. As things are, they're still going to be weak monsters, despite the -X combat modifier. They'll still contribute to terror, but also to combat. I hate pushover cultists.
I have had the thought of taking the 7 Deadly Sins and turning them into Heralds for fun.
The first one I have made, Sloth.
And the second, Envy.
And here we have Greed.
Next up, Pride.
Sloth - Don't take this the wrong way, but....AAAARGH. This just doesn't seem to me like that good an idea. Being delayed is already my least favourite part of the game. If you start taking that many turns away from the investigators, it's almost equivalent to adding Doom tokens, but in a way which is a lot more personally annoying, and leaves people sitting there doing nothing. I'm sorry this is non-constructive criticism, and I am trying to think of a way to make it more interesting, but most of what I've got so far would involve completely changing the idea. Then again it's purely personal preference; if other people don't mind being delayed, they'd probably get along with it fine.
As for the other Sins....hmmmmm. I get what you're trying to do, but I think most of these Sins are too wordy, and they constantly require the investigators to re-calculate effects and keep track of who's got the most of such-and-such. Surely there must be a simpler way?
The Sins are hard to translate into Arkham Horror, and Sloth is all about doing nothing constructive for extended periods of time. I am actually having the most trouble with Gluttony and Lust.
Some minor changes to lower bookkeeping.
I'm loving these. Sloth seems totally fine to me, as it's thematic and the delay isn't 'skip your turn' crazy. I don't see it as doing nothing but being forced to have an extra encounter. If that bothers you, don't play with the herald.
lol!
These are hilarious. Very nice!
Any suggestions on how to do Lust or Gluttony?
In regards to Greed, Pride, and Envy, they encourage Investigators to stay away from each other. Sloth just slows you down, but the first rendition of it Delaying you when you go into a Gate only affects people who willingly enter Gates, because you are already Delayed when one opens on you.
And here is Wrath. Monsters become more dangerous and come after you when they normally wouldn't. Plus, it hurts to walk by another Investigator.
Lust is still giving me trouble on how to make it.
Nasitest Herald to date? Black Goat of the Woods, behind you:
