Reprinting of cards

By blades0fbl00d, in UFS General Discussion

ROTBI said:

Impetuous isn't too strong, but we already have Memories that Stain its Armor, which while not identical, is pretty close.

Impetuous isn't too strong? Pardon?

People claim Memories that Stain its Armor as "pretty close"?

One foundation allows you to literally snipe, repeatedly, pieces of your opponent's board that you do not want to see. The other allows for the removal of ONE foundation by blowing itself up.

The only thing that holds back Impetuous is the 4 difficulty... and even then. I'd play it in every single deck that could carry them. It's that strong.

Not only that, but Impetuous and All Life is Prey. The more your opponent uses foundations, the more dumb the ALiP damage is going to be.

Of course it would snipe abilities on foundations. Hey guys, crazy thought, not being able to do whatever you want with no consequences? Oh no, thats control. We can't have that in OUR game!

Impetuous once it cycled needs to stay cycled. We've (me and some of my players) tested it after it cycled, and each time we've had to deal with it after block 1 it's been a total NPE. While I'm a huge fan of control, Impetuous as it stands is just too powerful.

RE: Mill is too slow, mill doesn't currently exist, mill doesn't exist within fighting games.

AYB - was mill that could win turn 2. It doesn't have to be slow.

Mill currently exists in the block we're in. It requires some creativity, but it can be done, and has some surprising results. I'm debating for my store championship if I'm going to try and run mill to prove a point, or if I'm going to have fun with something else. (Having played mill fairly consistently for the better part of the time while this game has been out, I'm enjoying not playing mill. )

In Soul Calibur IV, for the last level of Tower of Souls, you let Algol hit you, then roll to the edge, and he'll fling himself over. Presto, you've won the tower of souls. Throughout the game there are all sorts of situations where you can watch Cervy and other characters fling themselves out of the ring if they execute the wrong move at the wrong place. Effectively you're just blocking and usually not attacking as you're maneuvering them into position to nerf themselves.

To me, that's pretty darn close to mill. The players exhaust themselves, make a mistake and loose. When fighting Mill, that's usually how you loose to it, you make a mistake, and don't play correctly against it.

There are other video games I've played where exhaustion plays a part, and can cause a player to lose.

So based on that, mill does have a part in the game.

Burn - while it exists in fighting games, usually in the form of ranged attacks, ranged attacks are largely ineffective in UFS. Burn as people are intending / asking, existed within the first edition of the Highlander CCG, and the game spent the rest of its existence trying to balance it.

It's a possibly a more dangerous NPE then mill.

Those are my .02 back to earning a paycheck.

Antigoth said:

Burn - while it exists in fighting games, usually in the form of ranged attacks, ranged attacks are largely ineffective in UFS. Burn as people are intending / asking, existed within the first edition of the Highlander CCG, and the game spent the rest of its existence trying to balance it.

It's a possibly a more dangerous NPE then mill.

I'm mostly doing this as a counter-argument for the people asking for mill. I love burn, I love effects that "poison" my opponent (Zhao Daiyu, Dash Uppercut, Damascus Sword, Veteran of 1000 Battles, Deadly Rage). However, mill has been attempted several times with mixed results (too strong/too weak), but burn effects? Very rarely.

Obviously, from my point of view, there's too much mill and not enough burn. From the point of view of mill fans, I'm an idiot.

Also, when has the realm of possible NPE ever stopped UFS?

ROTBI said:

Impetuous isn't too strong, but we already have Memories that Stain its Armor, which while not identical, is pretty close.

Impet + Need to Destroy by evil = LOL
Impet + Summoning Evil = LOL

No to Impet

Char reprint happened... in first set; Foiled starter char as league promos!

No to Impet.

It was too easy to simply destroy your junk to get rid of jank. Junk for permanent removal of a jank? I remember blowing up Mission of freaking Peace to get rid of Yoga Mastery. There's a small, itty bitty imbalance there.

Completely off topic, kinda, but that Yoshitora's E is one of my favorite, if Mill ever came back, for what ever reason, I'd prefer to see it like that. Really I love all the abilities on that Yoshitora.

I am done fanboying, please continue.

Yeah, that's why that Yoshitora was a 5/25 and never really got tremendous draw power.

*shrug* I'm perfectly fine with Mill. Watching your deck dwindle as you play is a fine method to replicate the clock ticking down in a fighting game. I can name a few characters in fighting games with abilities that slow down the clock, and I'm sure there's probably a few who speed it up (although not in any license that UFS currently has).

The problem with mill as a strategy is that it's like playing a turtler. Mill decks arent fun to play against cause they're slow, drag things out, heavy on defense, and just NPE's in general.

Meh... I don't see why people want to consistantly bash mil. I mean this is a card game, not a fighting game. It just uses Characters and attacks to emulate one. However, Characters like Bishimon and Zangief and cards like Contemplation need to burn in hell. Mil should never be so easy as to be able to do it in a couple turns.

I'm a little more concerned about stun as of right now. I think the whole stun system is wrong. I mean I'm fine with it going off if the attack deals damage because thats how it works in a game. But when you have cards Zi Mei's Wheel Kick and your oppnent says stun 3 and you are forced to commit three things kind of gets irratating. The way that they have it set up is that I'm supposed to be stunned that an attack is coming at me. Does not seem very fighting game like to me.

As for burn, that is an element I would like to see in the game. But instead of just straight out I do this and you loose x amount of vitality, why not do it in chip damage. In several games if you throw a fire ball it does chip damage if it's not blocked by another fire ball.

blades0fbl00d said:

Meh... I don't see why people want to consistantly bash mil. I mean this is a card game, not a fighting game. It just uses Characters and attacks to emulate one. However, Characters like Bishimon and Zangief and cards like Contemplation need to burn in hell. Mil should never be so easy as to be able to do it in a couple turns.

Joy is going up against Bishimon and milling him second turn.

blades0fbl00d said:

As for burn, that is an element I would like to see in the game. But instead of just straight out I do this and you loose x amount of vitality, why not do it in chip damage. In several games if you throw a fire ball it does chip damage if it's not blocked by another fire ball.

Any special move will do that.

I've got no problems with mill to be honest. I do, however, have a problem that it has been given a lot of ground when compared to other playstyles.

Yeah dude I know what you mean. We all hate things that are over powered. I mean I despise the new Hatta and want it banned but that will never happen. If something could be done about his react I might warm up to him a little more. When my play group all came back from Gencon eveybody built him and I got real sick of playing him and playing against him. I'd burn him if I had more than one copy.

I'm also kind of sick of fire having everything as well. I really hope there is some speed and damage midigation and card draw in symbols other than fire in the next set. I'd also like to see a throw or two for air and water because they're non exsistant at the moment. Air, Good, Life, Void, Order, and Water need some love.

to be ultimately fair, Hata still lives in the shadow of Astrid, King, and the Mishimas in a lot of peoples minds.

Ok yeah your right, I just hate the fact that people arn't very original with him and just start throwing 50 damage throws a turn. I'm not a fan of Astrid or Heihatchi either. Kazuya has a busted ability, but at the cost of removing all your things from the game I view it as balanced. He's realy just infultrating in character form. Jin is kinda busted because the fact that I can kill you with 2 copies of him in play and two assets or with two foundations and an asset in play is a little stupid. As for King, I like him ^_^

blades0fbl00d said:

Yeah dude I know what you mean. We all hate things that are over powered. I mean I despise the new Hatta and want it banned but that will never happen. If something could be done about his react I might warm up to him a little more. When my play group all came back from Gencon eveybody built him and I got real sick of playing him and playing against him. I'd burn him if I had more than one copy.

I didn't say overpowered.

But take a look at the obviously mill cards compared to the obviously burn cards... you'll find quite the disparity. Not only in power level, but in sheer number of cards printed. The only one that really matches it is our good ol' friend Burning Knuckle.

Homme Chapeau said:

blades0fbl00d said:

Yeah dude I know what you mean. We all hate things that are over powered. I mean I despise the new Hatta and want it banned but that will never happen. If something could be done about his react I might warm up to him a little more. When my play group all came back from Gencon eveybody built him and I got real sick of playing him and playing against him. I'd burn him if I had more than one copy.

I didn't say overpowered.

But take a look at the obviously mill cards compared to the obviously burn cards... you'll find quite the disparity. Not only in power level, but in sheer number of cards printed. The only one that really matches it is our good ol' friend Burning Knuckle.

Did i mention that i love that card and wish that i could play it in every deck that shared a symbol with it :)

Yeah killing people by blocking would be hillarious.