Oh yeah, someone said the "S" word.

Anyway, I was thinking of creating fairly simple social combat of sorts, especially the kind that does NOT involve nobles.

This is really just for those run of the mill inquiries, but I don't want to just leave it at "you passed your charm check, here's everything I know!".

So...

Make it an extended opposed challenge. Based on the information that a person might be after and the perceived challenge of acquiring it. So build a tracker three four or five spaces along.

You can use almost any skill for these challenges, because **** it we might as well get everyone in on the roll. However:

Using non-social skills requires a context, but if said context is good, the test is easier, but generally these tests are two to three challenge dice harder. (I talk shop about weapons with the old soldier.)

Using the same skill twice in succession twice over the course of the same action also incurs a penalty, of between one and two challenge dice.

Your "opponent" gets to counter role, to try and make your own rolls more difficult and potentially knock the tracker back, depending on his own desires for what they want from the conversation. They may want money, favors, or to subtly imply something without saying it. An intuition check would obviously go wonders here to finding out what their needs are from this. Anyway, thoughts? I don't want to make anything too set in stone so that's why this kind of rough. But yeah, input welcome.

This is kind of similar to how I do it when my group is gaming and it works well.

Tracker length depends on how hard it is, and often I throw in an event space as a "partial success", so if the PCs try to learn some information they might get some at the event space. Often I also have use a time token which moves every round (or every two rounds), and when it gets to the last space you're out of time. The logic beeing that you cannot for example stand and haggle at a store for hours on end just to get the best price, at some point the store owner will get tired of you nagging about the price and just say; "accept this price or get out". I obviously do not use the time token if the PCs have unlimited time, such as getting free access to interrogate a prisoner for however long as you like. But the time token ensures that you won't just move a token back and forth on the tracker, and never get to the end.

Well, I was going to throw in a "try it in one" mechanic. Roll, with difficulty added for the number of tracking tokens left. Success, obviously, is self explanatory, failure results in a GTFO response and they can't continue talking to this person.

I'm getting a few notions from SIFRP social combat. While also trying not to make it too long winded. It would still be good to let some characters use all those social actions they've been buying... Right?

How to you handle the actual roleplaying in these type of encounters? I never impleent "social combat" rules partly because I can't imagine how a natural flow of conversation would work if its partiioned up into a bunch of mechanics. Not to mention, do you say things first and then roll the dice, or roll the dice and then say stuff?

Personally I have the characters say something, usually to get something out of the NPC, and then roll for the NPCs reaction.

I ask the PC's to make their case. Whatever it is. Then I make them roll based on that. Then we try put the results together, then rinse and repeat. This system would basically allow for a bit of back and forth interaction, and then resolve the final result of all their shenanigans.

I would use competitive checks more than opposed checks, as opposed put too much advantage to the acting party at times.

Reactive social skills also great to invoke.

Also requiring 'everyone participate' instead of just one 'face pc', even standing back and trying not to get in way requires a check to avoid being that awkward companion etc.

I need to be careful about making this too complicated as well.

What I hope happens:

Start of situation:

PC asks question/makes demand.(Let's say we have a face character and a soldier, they need some info on the black cowl, which the NPC is understandably reticent to give.)

Difficulty of challenge assessed. (Their opponent is Int 4 and has a social skill or two, as well as some cunning and expertise.)

First thing, the Face assumes this is an easy enough job and lays on the charm. This is opposed by the NPC's Willpower, and they get a boost based on the initial danger of taking about "The man in the Black Hood."

His result is:

Charm Roll : 2wB+2wR+1wY+1wW+2wP+1wK 1 success, 1 boon, 1 exertion

The Soldier feels like helping and pips in. He's got discipline and intimidate. He tries to help out by opening his big stoopid mouth. I don't hear him say that he is trying to actually take some specific action, he's just shooting his gob off. For this, he shall suffer.

Test : 2wB+1wG+2wP+3wK 0 successes, 1 Chaos Star

Glorious!!! I give the soldier a suitable temporary insanity which he will keep for the duration of the interaction.

More to follow...

How to you handle the actual roleplaying in these type of encounters? I never impleent "social combat" rules partly because I can't imagine how a natural flow of conversation would work if its partiioned up into a bunch of mechanics. Not to mention, do you say things first and then roll the dice, or roll the dice and then say stuff?

Mostly we roleplay and roll after to see how well a character did. If they did not manage to reach an event space or win the social combat they can press on, or give up, and then they'll have to roleplay some more before rolling again.

The easiest example I know of to illustrate social combat is the classic interrogation scene, with the whole good cop-bad cop scheme.

• The Good Cop (GP) might start by appealing to the better nature of the interrogated person (IP), offering a drink etc (Charm).
• When that yields no results the Bad Cop (BC) might slam his fist down into the table and yell about some evidence that puts the IP at a crime scene (Intimidate).
• That might put them on an event space where the IP could admit that he was on the scene, but did not commit the crime (Intuition, to spot if it seems truthful).
• GC might then try to trick the IP into admitting more (Guile).
• BC could go on to dominate the room, sending GP out for water and seeming in charge (Leadership).
• ...and so on.

Also, a timer token could be inserted, and when it reaches the final event space the interrogated persons lawyer arrive and shut the interview down in classic cinematic fashion. While this is a relatively straightforward social combat encounter, where each part could be roleplayed and ended with a roll to see if the players make progress. Many other social situations could be handled in a similar way, it's just important that the players know how it's expected to work. As with physical combat encounters the players need to know the rules, otherwise social combat won't work very well.

I believe that the social characters should have a chance to shine and not just make one charm roll and then it's over. Similar to combat encounters where fighting characters get to be in the spotlight.

The NPC finally gets to act.

Suitably irritated by the soldier's gobshite-ry the NPC decided that she wants to get a better handle on what it is the PC's actually want, so maybe she can give them slightly less info, or possibly bull them with what they want to hear.

Inutition check : 2wB+2wG+1wY+1wW+2wP+1wB 2 successes, 4 boon, 1 Chaos Star

AhaAhahaHAhaHAHAA! I love this game. So now the NPC knows roughly where this is going, so she can now redirect the PC's questions much more effectively. Add another challenge to their next role. Also, gain another cunning and an expertise dice for the boons. Finally, for the chaos star, I switch her stance one into Reckless.

So, "Round one" complete. The PC's have succeeded at their attempt so far. And their line of inquiry is proceeding along. The next series of rolls is going to be a whole lot more interesting however. What could happen?

- The Face might use Charm again, making the roll even more difficult for himself.

- rather than just open his big stupid mouth, the Soldier could try and assist the Face, which I will say still requires a roll, but with much less of a penalty. Let's say he looms in menacing fashion. I would call for this before the Face makes his roll. Or indeed, this could be the groups social action, with the face using a supporting action.

-They could attempt to use a social action. Twisting words and I thought we were friends immediately comes to mind.

How to you handle the actual roleplaying in these type of encounters? I never impleent "social combat" rules partly because I can't imagine how a natural flow of conversation would work if its partiioned up into a bunch of mechanics. Not to mention, do you say things first and then roll the dice, or roll the dice and then say stuff?

Mostly we roleplay and roll after to see how well a character did. If they did not manage to reach an event space or win the social combat they can press on, or give up, and then they'll have to roleplay some more before rolling again.

The easiest example I know of to illustrate social combat is the classic interrogation scene, with the whole good cop-bad cop scheme.

• The Good Cop (GP) might start by appealing to the better nature of the interrogated person (IP), offering a drink etc (Charm).
• When that yields no results the Bad Cop (BC) might slam his fist down into the table and yell about some evidence that puts the IP at a crime scene (Intimidate).
• That might put them on an event space where the IP could admit that he was on the scene, but did not commit the crime (Intuition, to spot if it seems truthful).
• GC might then try to trick the IP into admitting more (Guile).
• BC could go on to dominate the room, sending GP out for water and seeming in charge (Leadership).
• ...and so on.

Also, a timer token could be inserted, and when it reaches the final event space the interrogated persons lawyer arrive and shut the interview down in classic cinematic fashion. While this is a relatively straightforward social combat encounter, where each part could be roleplayed and ended with a roll to see if the players make progress. Many other social situations could be handled in a similar way, it's just important that the players know how it's expected to work. As with physical combat encounters the players need to know the rules, otherwise social combat won't work very well.

I believe that the social characters should have a chance to shine and not just make one charm roll and then it's over. Similar to combat encounters where fighting characters get to be in the spotlight.

+1, for the sake of trying to get more out of your social characters, at the very least, I want to start trying to do that myself in the future.

Another thing, for a social encounter to go smoothly the GM needs to prepare as and have social actions, talents, stats and such ready to go for the NPC(s). Otherwise "social combat" won't feel as fun as regular combat, and social action cards won't feel important for the PCs to take.

Just having a few of those handy just in case is always good. Twisting words and I thought we were friends, possibly devious maneuver.

Also, in light of the above, make sure you have an idea what happens when an NPC "influences" a player. Because telling a player that he feels influenced just kinda feels silly.

I really like what is going on here. I was so excited to see some social cards and things like "influence" when I ripped open my set four years ago. I love social interactions for players and get my kicks from being the talker in a group. Unfortunately, the system that was eluded to, was never really fleshed out by FFG. I've been thinking quite a bit about this the last couple of days and came up with some rough ideas. After re-reading thread it's pretty much the same thing. When I've had some sleep I'll try and articulate how I'll try and play things out on my end.

I think we're very close to something easy and manageable with the current rules and actions in the game.

cheers!

*cleaned up grammer*

I would agree, I'm trying to keep whatever idea I come up with as simple as possible. Ideally, it would use actions and skills in about equal measure.

Ok, I've been reading other posts on this topic and it sounds like most everyone is on the same page at the high level. I really like some of you past suggestions to folks, Crazy and Valvorik. Namely this one:

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/50261-social-encounters/?p=502904

and some great suggestions here: https://rpggeek.com/thread/523036/running-social-encounters

Here are the principle elements of the encounter and the use of established mechanics from the game:

1. Options for characters without Social Actions (but weighted so those with them get value out of the points they've spent)
2. Progress Tracker for marking events and encounter resolution.
3. Do something with the gained influence
4. Allow for all players to contribute something while the encounter is in progress.
5. Encounter is designed to last three to five rounds. Faster for characters that have invested heavily in social/fellowship.
6. Allow for partial resolution in which the players succeed but at an additional cost (debt/coin/etc.).
7. Use the Social Encounters only when the NPC requires convincing. This could be because the NPC feels the favour has some value or presents a risk.

At the very basics all that is really required are:

• two or three new basic actions/reactions for Charm/Guile/Intimidate tests
• a "location" for the conversation with the stated goals and some special die result triggers
• a progress tracker and some tokens.

You could even get a way from the basic actions for Charm/Guile/Intimidate and have the die results on the location lend themselves to straight Skill tests. I'd rather have the cards myself as then you have specific "feels" to the cards with their own specific fail results. My feeling is that at least one Social Card is missing from the rest of the Basic actions and that by having cards you can place recharge tokens to and flip over depending stance give players the feeling of more options than a straight up roll.

I think everything else is pretty much in place. At it's core the players are trying to generate Influence before the target becomes agitated or tired of the PCs.

Below is a very high level break down of what I'm working on and this hasn't been tested. Just about every concept here has been mentioned on the forums before so I don't think there are any real surprises. Almost all the special rules would fit on the Location Card and the Social Actions...

As soon as it is determined the players are going to try and get something from an NPC establish what the PC's intent and goals are...

Set up the encounter:

1. Appropriate Location - Conversation card. Choose a card that best portrays the weight of the request(s). This will state how much influence is required for partial and complete successes, dice result triggers, and special rules.
2. Set up an "L" tracker. The long tracker is the "Tension". One event spot part way. The shorter track marks the current difficulty.
3. Tokens: One for each track and influence tokens to place on the card as they are generated.

Start the encounter.

1. Roll for Social Initiative.
2. Engaged characters play in initiative order. The first player to act is considered to be the Speaker/Mouth/Agent. This player will do most of the influence generation and will be supported by the others. The Speaker change voluntarily/involuntarily during the encounter.
3. The difficulty is determined as per Opposed tests.
4. As players' turns comes up they explain their intent and what they are doing and saying. Roll the dice and determine results.
5. Influence is added and trackers moved according to dice rolls.
6. If the Tension increases past the first event - Add one to the Difficulty track.If the Tension tracker fills add another difficulty token to the Difficulty Track.
7. If the difficulty increases past its last step the encounter comes to a close.
8. If the players achieve the total Influence required the Encounter comes to a close.

The encounter should play out as above, with players trying to get the influence built up before the Tension and Difficulty get too high. Influence can be used to to affect the Tension or increase the amount of Influence gained. Conditions, Stress, and Party Tension may all be effected. There are some triggers that negatively affect the Speaker for a round or few and these could provide other players the chance to step in and salvage the encounter "What My Friend Is Trying To Say" for example.

Like I said, I haven't play tested this but I have been listening to actual live plays and trying to see if the above could slip into the game somewhat effortlessly. I think it can work with a bit of fiddling and we could come up with something that offers a bit of something to all the players that plays out in a way that is not much different than other progressive tests. I've also been reviewing the social cards and trying to keep them in mind. I'd like to come up with Basic Actions for Guile and possibly Intimidate, each with their own risks and game effects. Another Basic Social support/reaction card would be in order for the players in supportive roles. A Reckless "Interrupt" on one side and a appropriate Conservative assist on the other. Two basic social actions should give most players something to play with.

Variety of different conversations to represent interrogations/intense haggling/and extreme requests could all be made. Each with their own win conditions and dice result triggers.

Can anyone tell me what uses they can think of for "free maneuvers" with in a conversation?

I've attached a couple of WIP cards as a sampling of the generic Conversation dice result triggers.

http://imgur.com/U3agLP8

http://i.imgur.com/vyggsfU.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/eZqSoaq.jpg

Anyhow, let me know what you think. It's rough and has a ways to go.

Cheers.

I'm just going to say, I would be aiming to keep my social interactions a little less complicated than this. I might build a progress tracker if something specific was at stake.

But for the most part, I would go:

Target influence/succeses=target's willpower.

Time limit=Main "face" PC's fellowship/turns.

You have your goal, the enemy has his, now roll some f*cking dice.

I like it, a lot.

I might add something like counting the number of stars rolled to attach strings/favours/conditions to the task. This would be for the times the players need the information to continue the story forward.

With the added difficulty die for reusing a charm check you proposed in the beginning of the thread you'd be encouraging the face to pick up an extra social card or two to offset the extra, inevitable stars.

You could add a nasty sub condition to the whole conversation. Essentially an "it'll cost you" sub clause. I would force a point of stress as well for each chaos star. It makes the players think that I'm letting them off easy and then BAM!!!

"He wants me to do what for the information?"

There we go. Quite a few times there is information that needs to be gotten from NPC's in order to progress the story. The players know this, the GM knows this.

Even when the dice fail the GM needs to hand over the info. With the above, even when you fail or succeed with stars the info comes at a price. The smooth talking/Socially adept players will be able to get what the group needs without (hopefully) the penalties untrained/no-social-actions players.

Examples of the penalties might be:

• Favours
• Money
• An untruth in with the info
• possible betrayal/tip off - "You didn't hear it from me but, some strange folks was asking about Fat Jannik but you didn't hear it from me"

I don't like letting PC's know when they get plot central info that they need in order to proceed the story. It makes it kinda cheaper than making them roll without knowing. I want my PC's to suffer feel that little twinge of terror victory.