I personally find A1 really attractive however I don't think there's a definite answer to the above/would really welcome a FAQ entry on this but..... like talismanamsilat reminded me, (from the Dragon Rulebook):
If a character misses his turn, he does not draw a dragon token on the turn that he loses.
For reasons of consistency (the reason why I really don't like the C-interpretation) I'd say (B) is the correct one.
Any toughs on this breakdown/final answer?
Any toughs on this breakdown/final answer?
I actually think C!
I think a missed turn still happens for the purposes of counting. My reason is that if you are turned into a toad and miss a turn, you can still be attacked. If you don't count the missed turn as a toad turn, it's an entire extra round worth of problems you have to endure. I think it works like this:
- If something causes you to miss a turn AFTER you have begun the turn, you end your turn immediately and this counts as a "missed turn." (ref: basic rules). By extension, if you are turned into a toad, the current turn counts as a "toad turn," and so on for any effect that counts turns.
- If something causes you to miss a turn BEFORE you gave begun the turn, you do not do mandatory or optional effects (ref: Dragon rulebook). But, it counts as a passed turn for the purposes of effects that last multiple turns (eg toad).
In summary, I think "for X turns" actually means "for X rounds." It just counts from your turn, and generally affects only you, so using the word "rounds" probably sounds like it affects everyone. But really I think they are the same.
I don't know an example that proves "X turns" isn't the same as "X rounds," so if someone can find such an example, it's important to know. Otherwise I think the above might be the answer that covers all cases.
Artaterxes??
...C?
The path of inconsistencies!?!
Noooooo!
Well.. here's one for you then:
I'm toaded next to the
Library
. After rolling 3-4 I get an extra turn..
Still think that "X turns" isn't the same as "X rounds"?
(A toad can't use spells but.. Temporal Warp and all of those..)
Oh boy... No you're right about that.
Extra turns would put a wrench into the turns = rounds idea.
I still think a missed turn counts as a turn for the purposes of counting X number of turns, but it really is a personal feeling due to the idea of lasting more rounds as a toad. I don't really have proof!
A good way to think of rounds is when every player currently playing in the game has had that opportunity to have at least one turn, this is just the opportunity of a turn thus missing a whole turn is not having a turn but having the opportunity to have a turn. Once all players have had this opportunity then it counts as one round.
A good way to think of rounds is when every player currently playing in the game has had that opportunity to have at least one turn, this is just the opportunity of a turn thus missing a whole turn is not having a turn but having the opportunity to have a turn. Once all players have had this opportunity then it counts as one round.
Or you could just say that it's a turn whether you can do anything with it or not and you can have many turns in one round.
Sorry, but this discussion seems fruitless... I think it's time to agree to disagree.
You're right. That
is
another option.
It's not obvious from the graphical representation but in analogy..
Let's say your doctor tells you to take a pill at after finishing you third dinner (counting from now).
If you missed dinner on the second day (you got drunk at the bar and collapsed in a corner), does that 'dinner' still count?
Sure, in the analogy there will be an answer but back in Talisman we're just left waiting for the elusive FAQ.
Meanwhile..
I'd still stay with (B), it encompasses extra turns as well. (Eating three dinners a day was probably not what the doctor meant
)
For what it's worth, I played a game of Talisman Digital Edition last night and an AI character was Toaded by the Leprechaun Adventure Card on the Highland Entrance. On his next turn, he moved to the Crags and rolled a 2, triggering a missed turn. Sure enough the missed turn did not count towards his turns for being a Toad. I know the DE of the game isn't exactly a rules judge or anything, but I read this thread and had to share my observation.
However, I agree with others in this thread and in my games play it as if a Toad misses a turn it counts for their Toad turns. Being a Toad is already bad enough that you lose your stuff and typically lose a few life in the process.
Edited by OdinssonIt doesn't surprise me that the Digital Edition doesn't count missed turns for the purpose of lasting effects (incl. Toad). Probably the software counts a turn only if it has been started by some triggering event, and if it skips, the trigger is skipped as well. This doesn't affect rounds because they are counted in another way. These are the given rules:
The owner of the game takes the first turn.
Play then proceeds round the board clockwise from that player.
Probably a round is not made of a fixed number of turns to pass, but it's counted from the turn of a first player (i.e. the owner, but I've never followed that rule), until play passes to the same person again,no matter if he/she takes his/her turn or not.
The reason why I'm generally not interested in knowing what DE does resides in my (very limited) knowledge of computing. If you compile a programme, you put a certain logic into it and it will apply it to every situation. If it gives acceptable results and don't crash, it may stay the same. DE won't crash because there are no rules to discipline certain situations; it will always give an answer based on the programme, but it can just be a missed exception, an unwanted consequence or a wrong decision by a programmer who wanted to get the machine running.
However, Nomad Games did a great job with Talisman DE. It was a hard task to create a code for a game with so many combinations and variability like Talisman. All compromises are somehow justified by the final result and could be taken as rules answers if you like, as long as official ones are missing. It's better than not knowing what to do.
Edited by The_WarlockThe reason why I am interested in what the DE does is because I am a Computer Engineer. Since the game is quite good, I bet there is a good relationship between Nomad and FFG/GW. My guess is that there is regular discussion on rules implementation, so while not 100% official, it's enough for my playgroup to use it as an independent and "unbiased" rules judge.
Artaterxes?? ...C? The path of inconsistencies!?! Noooooo!
Well.. here's one for you then:
I'm toaded next to the Library . After rolling 3-4 I get an extra turn..
Still think that "X turns" isn't the same as "X rounds"?
(A toad can't use spells but.. Temporal Warp and all of those..)
I have a question:
Ghoul casts temporal warp, he goes in the city where he is turned into a toad.
And now?... Temporal Warp is still effected?
I think yes.
And i like to think that extra-turns count for Toad, because Temporal Warp is related with TIME and because Library... is related with... some magic books related with time (actually i want to reduce the toad-time because it's horrible when you loose your objects and followers and you want to recover quickly)
You take two more turns as a toad, then play passes to the next player. When it's your turn again, you take your last turn as a toad.
I'm curious...what caused you to be turned into a toad in the city?
You take two more turns as a toad, then play passes to the next player. When it's your turn again, you take your last turn as a toad.
I'm curious...what caused you to be turned into a toad in the city?
The Grumpy
Gamer
oh I mean Wizard can.
Artaterxes?? ...C? The path of inconsistencies!?! Noooooo!
Well.. here's one for you then:
I'm toaded next to the Library . After rolling 3-4 I get an extra turn..
Still think that "X turns" isn't the same as "X rounds"?
(A toad can't use spells but.. Temporal Warp and all of those..)
I have a question:
Ghoul casts temporal warp, he goes in the city where he is turned into a toad.
And now?... Temporal Warp is still effected?
I think yes.
And i like to think that extra-turns count for Toad, because Temporal Warp is related with TIME and because Library... is related with... some magic books related with time (actually i want to reduce the toad-time because it's horrible when you loose your objects and followers and you want to recover quickly)
Ah! Good solution (on how to cast Temporal warp on the same turn as being a Toad)
I agree, you'd play three consecutive turns and then transform back to you character at the end of the third turn.
Edited by NiorehYou take two more turns as a toad, then play passes to the next player. When it's your turn again, you take your last turn as a toad.
I'm curious...what caused you to be turned into a toad in the city?
I speak about the space City in the outer region:
Uvatha, I disagree with you. If a player casts Immobility at the start of a Toad's turn, you are saying that it doesn't count as a turn for the Toad. That's just plain wrong. If a Toad is instructed to miss a turn (not matter how), it should count as a turn spent as a Toad; it just means you did nothing on the missed turn!
You are off-base in comparing missing a turn with Immobility. Immobility specifically states that the player may do nothing except for negating that spell for the remainder of his turn. That is, he still gets the turn. He just gets to do nothing.
With missing a turn you do not get a turn. Granted, there are ways of negating missing a turn, but unless you have one of those you simply do not get the turn. It's not that you simply don't get to do anything. It's that you don't get the turn at all. It is not counted.
In the absence of an official ruling we are left to interrupt the meaning ourselves. There is no correct answer to this question though I tend to lean towards the more elegant and simple solution.
"You miss your next turn"
You still have a next turn but you miss an opportunity to perform any actions on it. It has to work like this otherwise it causes several problems and needless complications.
In the absence of an official ruling we are left to interrupt the meaning ourselves. There is no correct answer to this question though I tend to lean towards the more elegant and simple solution.
"You miss your next turn"
You still have a next turn but you miss an opportunity to perform any actions on it. It has to work like this otherwise it causes several problems and needless complications.
Except you don't have a turn, so it does not count as one for the toad. That cuts out all the problems and needless complications.
I think it's way more complicated to try and count missed turns in limbo. What if you went twice as a toad, missed two turns, then went again, way more confusing and more stuff to keep track of.
I think it's way more complicated to try and count missed turns in limbo. What if you went twice as a toad, missed two turns, then went again, way more confusing and more stuff to keep track of.
Yeh, when you finish a turn you just remove a token on the Toad card thus if you didn't have a turn you do not remove a token.
Edited by UvathaYeh, when you finish a turn you just remove a token on the Toad card thus if you didn't have a turn you do not remove a token.I think it's way more complicated to try and count missed turns in limbo. What if you went twice as a toad, missed two turns, then went again, way more confusing and more stuff to keep track of.
What if I told you that we count ALL turns so that we won't need tokens to keep count for us...?
I HIGHLY recommend one of these:
http://www.litko.net/products/Fantasy-Battle-TurnTracker.html
I put ongoing events by the dial as they are occurring and track the rounds with the dial, I can track three things at once easily. Also this way I can take the event cards off the board and not rely on remembering them amidst the other cards on the board, and we can encounter other cards on those spaces. As for characters missing turns, we put the game piece on its side to signify that he's down and out.
Yeh, when you finish a turn you just remove a token on the Toad card thus if you didn't have a turn you do not remove a token.I think it's way more complicated to try and count missed turns in limbo. What if you went twice as a toad, missed two turns, then went again, way more confusing and more stuff to keep track of.
What if I told you that we count ALL turns so that we won't need tokens to keep count for us...?
You still need something to keep track of turns done otherwise players can forget very easy with the amount of effects generated during play. So really no matter what rule you go by turn counters or some other sort of turn counting system is agood way to go.
Edited by UvathaWe use a simple trick to mark missed turn. If a character is scheduled to miss his next turn, we knock over the figure to mark that. That way no one ever forgets he was supposed to lose a turn. Instead of moving they just stand their character up.
Yeah, 6 plus hours of boozimg makes it really easy to forget basically everything. Once I started taking extra turns on accident, always thought it was my turn. Good stuff.