A Ghoul is turned into a toad and he misses a turn in the forest. Does he remain a toad for an extra round?
According to the rules: "When the character reverts back to his original form, remove

no, the turn does not happen therefore theturn is non existant and does not count towards a toad

So... the Ghoul remain a toad for 4 round?
​
- I return normal when i collect 3 " end of turn " from the moment I am a toad. Is It correct?

no, the turn does not happen therefore theturn is non existant and does not count towards a toad

There's no official rule about this. I mean, there's no rule that says whether a missed turn counts as a turn or not towards the global time flow of the game.

I've always played that if you miss a turn as a Toad, it's still a turn. Under that condition, missing a turn as a Toad has always been a good thing in my games.

You might say this is nonsense, but I'm pretty sure that you count missed turns when checking for a full round, e.g. to determine the duration of lasting effects (e.g. Prophecy, Hex). I've just applied the same logic to Toads, Slow Motions, Transformations and other effects that last many turns but affect only 1 character.

From the moment I am a toad, I Return normal when i collect 3 "end of turn".

Is it correct?

Of course a missed turn is still counted for counting rounds. But if a player misses a turn it does not count as a turn for being a toad hello "you are a toad for 3 turns" if you lose a turn then it does not count as a turn. Now if it said "you are a toad for 3 rounds" that's different.

I think you're wrong Uvatha. Take siren or similar card as an example.

If you draw the card at the ruins together with an object you would miss that turn as you still have cards to encounter. And I think it's easy to agree that the turn is counted towards the three toad turns. Why should there be any difference if you draw siren alone in the fields or woods and miss the next turn..?

I think you're wrong Uvatha. Take siren or similar card as an example.

If you draw the card at the ruins together with an object you would miss that turn as you still have cards to encounter. And I think it's easy to agree that the turn is counted towards the three toad turns.

This case is surely counted towards the turns as a Toad, because the instruction to lose a turn when you still have cards to encounter makes the current turn end immediately, as per rules (page 16). I think everybody agrees that when you've moved and have drawn cards you've been taking a turn, no matter if it ends sooner than expected.

The other case (miss your next turn) is the real topic. Uvatha says that you have to be a Toad for 3 turns and that it means played turns, so missed turns do not count. Rules don't give many hints, so it's another dispute about wording.

I think a missed turn is a big disadvantage in Talisman and I like the fact that it could be the opposite when you're a Toad. You're already in a bad condition and a missed turn can mitigate the penalty. In Uvatha's view (and surely according to many other players) Toads should be penalised like anybody else when missing a turn.

My opinion is that the Toad is not trapped outside time and reality when missing a turn. Characters miss a turn because they're lost in the Forest, take cover from the Storm, are enthralled by the Siren's call, are freezed by the Cryomancer, etc... Time passes even while missing a turn, and this is reflected by other characters progressing while you're doing nothing useful for your quest, or by rounds being completed even if you skip your turn. Since the Toad curse has a specific duration, it shouldn't last more just because the Toad spends time on useless actions.

I agree with Warlock. I see turn defined as "opportunity to do something." If you miss a turn, you miss that opportunity. If doesn't mean you were frozen in time. Something happened to you to make you miss that opportunity. But it still counts as a turn, just a fruitless one.

I think you're wrong Uvatha. Take siren or similar card as an example.

If you draw the card at the ruins together with an object you would miss that turn as you still have cards to encounter. And I think it's easy to agree that the turn is counted towards the three toad turns. Why should there be any difference if you draw siren alone in the fields or woods and miss the next turn..?

Your talking about having a turn and at some point during that turn you encounter a effect that makes you miss the remaining of your turn. That's different from a effect that stops you from having a turn before your turn. I'm taking about a effect that stops you from having a turn "a full turn" not half of a turn. If you start your turn and you lose the remaining of it due to a effect then it still counts as a turn even though it was only half.

Good diplomatic answer to Warlock but no, no turny no sooner untoady hehehe.

Uvatha, I disagree with you. If a player casts Immobility at the start of a Toad's turn, you are saying that it doesn't count as a turn for the Toad. That's just plain wrong. If a Toad is instructed to miss a turn (not matter how), it should count as a turn spent as a Toad; it just means you did nothing on the missed turn!

I agree with Uvatha : the Toad card uses "turns", not "rounds". A totally missed turn does not count, because it never happens. You can tell that because other effects that are "turn-based" don't happen on a totally missed turn (Cloak of Shadow effect doesn't end on such a turn, Spellbook's effect doesn't trigger on such a turn).

Immobility is cast at the start of the Toad's turn, so the turn has already begun and therefore should count. We are talking about "lose your next turn" effects.

I disagree, Edriss. Turns don't simply "not happen." They are taken or missed, but they always happen. If you have to miss a turn, it is because you are under the influence of something; it is denying you a chance to move. Examples of missed turns: you get lost in the crags, you are caught in an avalanche, you are mesmerized by the Siren's song, you pass out in the Tavern. Think of these things as HAPPENING to you during your missed turn. You experience them, whether you are a toad or not. Time does not stop for you; you are recovering from whatever effect prevented you from acting and it definitely counts as one of your 3 turns.

I agree with koboldz. I like to think there is Always a "end of turn" step, even if you lost the turn,

and you Return normal when you collect the third "end of turn"

I agree with koboldz. I like to think there is Always a "end of turn" step, even if you lost the turn,

and you Return normal when you collect the third "end of turn"

How can you have a "end of turn" when you did not have a turn?? Turns don't simply "not happen."?? If you lose a turn the turn does not happen? how can it still happen? What you mean in reflection is it still counts ah now I'm starting to understand. Even though you do not "have a turn" it still counts as " having a turn" hmmmm still super confusing to me.

When you lose a turn you go immediately to the "end of turn", because you are doing something else: You are hearing a siren, you are searching an exit in the forest,...

When you lose a turn you go immediately to the "end of turn", because you are doing something else: You are hearing a siren, you are searching an exit in the forest,...

Ok, where in the rules does it say this? It says your turn immediately ends if you encountered the Siren in your turn, but if you missed your next turn you don't have a turn thus not even a end of turn. I mean where does it say "you always have a end of turn"?

Ok, where in the rules does it say this? It says your turn immediately ends if you encountered the Siren in your turn, but if you missed your next turn you don't have a turn thus not even a end of turn. I mean where does it say "you always have a end of turn"?

Where inte rules does it say the opposite? Until, if ever, we get something official I guess it's up to each of us how to play missed turn. As if they're gone or if you're just to preoccupied to take a normal turn. I can definitely see it both ways.

Well it doesn't say yes or no on the subject at all, thus we have to go back to what the Toad effect was designed to do. Its a bad effect that supposed to be crippling but not "deadly" out of the game your dead effect. So common sense (if you can use common sense when working out a fantasy games rules ) would compel you to side on the "whole 3 turns" in the being a toad effect. anything else is using the lack of rules as a loophole to add new rules or new interruption of the rules.

Anyway if it was three turns no matter if you have them or not why didn't it say Rounds instead of Turns (just like what Edriss said) and you would think if it was so important it would of been in the FAQ too but it wasn't.

Whenever I try to use common sense with Talisman I'm told by Warlock and other veterans that you can't use common sense in Talisman. And of course Toad is a bad effect, but so is losing a turn.

Besides inconsistent wording is quite common in Talisman. Using above discussion: how do you play destroy magic if the caster has to loose turns?

That said, I see how you think and you might very well be right but we play the other way in my group and we're not going to change that.

Anyway if it was three turns no matter if you have them or not why didn't it say Rounds instead of Turns (just like what Edriss said) and you would think if it was so important it would of been in the FAQ too but it wasn't.

Ha! You might have your points Uvatha, and I'm not questioning that it could be just as you say, but it's nonsense to state that FFG would have used Rounds if that was the intent, or that it would have been addressed in the FAQ if it was so important.

1) FFG could just have overlooked the topic, like they did in many other cases (e.g. the Swashbuckler errata). The base game rulebook itself is not perfect, it's even missing a paragraph about winning the game. The fact that different players have decided their own way to go proves it's just not clear.

2) the FAQ is old and incomplete. It's missing something like 200 important answers, stretching from base game topics to the complexity introduced by last expansions

Whenever I try to use common sense with Talisman I'm told by Warlock and other veterans that you can't use common sense in Talisman. And of course Toad is a bad effect, but so is losing a turn.

Besides inconsistent wording is quite common in Talisman. Using above discussion: how do you play destroy magic if the caster has to loose turns?

That said, I see how you think and you might very well be right but we play the other way in my group and we're not going to change that.

Well common sense in "the way the rules are written" not taking common sense from day to day life etc etc.

Well destory magic says until the start of next turn.. if you miss a turn its your next turn? nothing confusing about that!. As for playing the way you want well of course everyone is free to do as they wish this is just by whats is written and our interruption of those said rules.

Ha! You might have your points Uvatha, and I'm not questioning that it could be just as you say, but it's nonsense to state that FFG would have used Rounds if that was the intent, or that it would have been addressed in the FAQ if it was so important.

1) FFG could just have overlooked the topic, like they did in many other cases (e.g. the Swashbuckler errata). The base game rulebook itself is not perfect, it's even missing a paragraph about winning the game. The fact that different players have decided their own way to go proves it's just not clear.

2) the FAQ is old and incomplete. It's missing something like 200 important answers, stretching from base game topics to the complexity introduced by last expansions

I don't think its nonsense Warlock, if FFG wanted to played that way why didn't they just word it that way?, of course I'm not saying or implying FFG are perfect or do everything 100% right (we all are human we all make mistakes) but being turned into a toad is something you would think is important - if it was so confusing to understand in the rulebook. And yes there is problems with the rules and the way they are written but that of course does not mean that its all bad just parts are..

As for the FAQ yeah its is old and incomplete but of course FFG cant answer every question players come up with otherwise it would be 1000 pages long - we as players have to "read the rules" and try to find the common ground between the rules until FFG get around to answer the questions that really need answers.

How that for a diplomatic answer .

Yes... There are a lot of bad explanations in rules. For example, i didn't understand the important difference between craft and craft value, or if turns stack, or if a toad can get objects.

Maybe Uvatha is right, but in this case I prefer my point of view about turns and chronological lines... So, if Uvatha is right, i'll go with a House rule because i prefer my interpretation of turns, it doesn't change the game, only this TEMPORARY curse.

A Ghoul is turned into a toad and he misses a turn in the forest. Does he remain a toad for an extra round?

According to the rules: "When the character reverts back to his original form, remove

the Toad Card and exchange the Toad figure for his character figure at the end of his third turn ."

I like to think that when i miss a turn i go immediately at the end of turn. Is it correct?

I return normal when i collect 3 " end of turn " from the moment I am a toad. Is It correct?

I'm arguing that there are two types of "missed turns" and thru that I'd say that the question is not properly formulated.

Lets say three players (red, green and blue) are playing a game, the turns would proceed as:

█████ █████ █████ █████ █████ █████ ... and so on.

But then the blue player misses a turn for some reason.

These effects can have two results:

Miss a turn as in miss the rest of this turn , ends your current turn (someone cast Sleep on you etc).

This is easy, the turn begin and then it will (abruptly) end. It existed. It counts for the purpose of your question and several other purposes.

This would look something like:

█████ █████ █ █████ █████ █████ ...

or...

Miss a turn as in miss the turn you would have had the next round , a lingering effect (Tavern -> 1 -> Get drunk and collapse in a corner etc).

I think this one is what has spurred lots of threads on different topics (Draw spells at the beginning of the turn?, losing lives from fireland tokens? and most recently draw dragon tokens?*).

I'd boil this later one down to the following interpretations:

The turn starts but immediately ends. This would look like the above one.

If this is true it can be split down into two additional options.

A1) Everything that must happen will happen but you do not have the option (never have the time) to do may things.

The turn will count for the 3 toad turns, you must draw a dragon token, you can't draw spells (or do other at the start/end of you turn you may... things) and you will lose a life from fireland tokens.

A2) Like A1 but the character can also do may things.

Theoretically there but I do not in any way see this as likely to be the correct interpretation.

B) The turn does not exist at all and the turn sequence would look like:

█████ █████ █████ █████ █████ ...

If this is true, answering the mentioned questions is easy.

Since the turn you missed does not exist "it" won't count against the 3 toad turns.

(...you won't draw a dragon token, can't draw spells and won't lose a life from a fireland token).

C) Some kind of mix. Different ruling depending on what effect it is.

This would be a horrible horrible mess and it would get even more messy as (/if?) more expansions were added.

* https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/178881-at-the-start-of-a-players-turn/?p=1676555