Well, this will not be easy to write since some facts are as shady as the whole tournament has been...
First i need to vent... so bear with me if all facts are not presented right away...
Yes, i can be whiner at times and even a sore looser...

Anyhow, lets start at the beginning...

Store Championship

The tournament was actually rescheduled since we were getting hit hard by funky weather the last couple of weeks so the attendees were not as many as expected.

Whatsoever, the TO decided he will join the championship as well.
Which, as we all know, is not really a problem, as long as you got a replacement TO while you are playing.

The whole setup already started weird since the sheets were turned in and after looking at the other lists the TO started commenting on players like (not towards me... towards one of the attendees) "Well, your list wont win!".

As a little background here...
Our area has round about 3 X-Wing Groups which rarely play together beside at Championships.
And members of one group rarely show up at the normal game nights at other stores. No biggie we still know each other more or less, and actually respect each other.
The reason why i bring that up is namely because, and there is no proof just a feeling, that people got selected who to play against.

Mostly against the TO who actually looked at the lists first.

And, haa what a surprise, the attendee which got the answer that his list will not win was right the first to play against the TO.

Also the second "pick" for the second round was against a player from a different group.... against a player where the TO was watching the whole game, of course in his roll as TO *cough*. (while attending his own game)

Which was incredibly odd since the TO won his first round and the player in his next "pick" lost his round.

Well, swiss round anyone???

What actually broke all the rules of fair sportsmanship was simply the fact that the TO was very narrow eyed about rules but he was playing with PROXY CARDS!!! (which was then allowed of course, screw the rules).

By the way, the replacement for the TO left the championship after the first round. Just as a side note...

In the end the TO ended up at the top 4.. undeserved at best...

The reason why im writing it... well i had to get it off my chest and also to ask you guys... how far can a TO go?

What should be the next steps?

Report this behavior to FFG?

I have to say that the TO is not the owner of the store where the Championship was held.. so... calling out the store?

How to make sure that this store will not have the same TO next year?

*edit: needed to set some facts straight.. sorry

NEW EDIT: (Thanks CruzinToVictory for your comment as well since we all only had pieces of what happened)

QUOTE CruzinToVictory (post #18)

I was at this event, and there's even more questionable behavior from what I saw.

• At the beginning, the TO didn't even want us to turn in list sheets. "As long as we'd shown him our lists". We insisted and he said fine.
• At the start of the event, the store owner announced there would be 4 rounds and a cut to top 4. After the first round ended, (where the TO picked his oppoenent and won) the TO announced we'd only be playing 3 rounds, making it harder for those that lost the first round to catch up.
• There were no score sheets of any kind, and people were asked to just report their scores to the TO, who then "did some magic" behind a the screen to enter scores and pick matchups.
• At the end of the third round all games were finished except for the TO and the #1 seed's game. I went to take a look at the standings and I was in 3rd with a 100+ point lead on the TO. The game ended and the TO lost by a 4 point MoV, which would give him 96 points. And yet somehow after that game ended he jumped to 4th and I dropped to 5th (the winner of that game also jumped me). I should have been in 4th but had no way to prove it since there were no score sheets.
• When the top 4 started, the TO saw that he was 4th and the hardest list was 1st. So instead of doing 4v1 and 2v3 like the rules CLEARLY state, he manipulated the matchups YET AGAIN to try and make an easier matchup for himself.

I attend these events because they're fun and I like playing with good people, but I also like to compete. I left this event feeling pretty disgusted and I feel like I was cheated out of my chance to compete for a store championship.

NEW EDIT: (Thanks xtort318 for your comment as well)

QUOTE: xtort318 (post #63)
Ok, I've remained silent on this post for far too long, yet for good reason. Here's some information from yet another person who was present at the Store Championship in question, that was held yesterday.

I can absolutely confirm that the allegations indeed happened.

It is done with, and we cannot change the outcome. The only proactive approach that we have, is that of learning from mistakes. That being said, I have been in discussion with members from all of the groups involved throughout the day.

Here is what we have discussed:

1. The primary focus has been how to continue maintaining a generally positive atmosphere for all of the groups involved.

2. There will be no mention here, on any social media outlet, or in any manner, of the individual(s) involved. This also includes the shop where the event took place. We are not going to create a which hunt.

3. Steps have been taken by both groups to insure that a constant, reliable, and FAIR gaming environment is well maintained.

3. All group leaders have been educated in regards to expectations during casual play, local tournaments, and sanctioned tournaments.

4. I have been reassured that the store in question had no idea of the events as they unfolded. The store (and their community) will be handling the problem as such. Rest assured that this shop will still be visited by avid X-Wing players. The shop WILL NOT be boycotted, shunned, nor blacklisted in any fashion.

5. Some more vetted individuals who were not present on that day, have stepped up to educate the individual in proper TO etiquette. In addition, those individuals have offered some of their clubs private prize support as recompense to affected players in that tournament.

6. All affected players are in the process of being notified that this was the case of poor judgement from a small amount of individuals.

All of that being said, I would like to thank all of you for your input. Most of this has been a great help indeed. It is very comforting to know that the community is VERY active, and not ashamed to help their members.

*On a personal note, I would like to make note of the groups involved. At all points during this debacle the focus was on our community of X-Wing enthusiasts, and how we would improve despite an obstacle. At no point was there an argument that got out of control or off topic. At no point was there blatant disrespect to those involved. The focus was always on maintaining a healthy environment for our players, and it is that reason alone why I am proud to be a part of our local community.

"Nothing travels faster than the speed of light with the possible exception of bad news, which obeys its own special laws." ~Douglas Adams

Not to side with the OP but the one thing everyone can take from this is that to remain above board and beyond reproach is for a TO or even store owner/employee to NOT participate in a tournament they're hosting.

That doesn't mean the TO/owner/employee cannot play in the tournament. They can always play against the bye in odd number matches as winning or loosing should not effect the outcome since the bye already gets a win for the count. But yes to avoid any possible conflicts of interests there should be a line that separates facilitators from participants.

100% disgusting.

Voice your concerns to the venue owner. Be sure you articulate them better then you did here.

Not to side with the OP but the one thing everyone can take from this is that to remain above board and beyond reproach is for a TO or even store owner/employee to NOT participate in a tournament.

That doesn't mean the TO/owner/employee cannot play in the tournament. They can always play against the bye in odd number matches as winning or loosing should not effect the outcome since the bye already gets a win for the count. But yes to avoid any possible conflicts of interests there should be a line that separates facilitators from participants.

Or just not break half the rules or social conventions surrounding the position.

Half of the issues the OP is presenting are issue that can arise even if the TO is not participating. You don't become objective just by not participating, you can rig pairings or bend and break rules all the same for friends.

If a store is not too large it is ok if the TO plays (IMO). But they should hand down there focus tokens if they make top 4 (they get a set for TOing).

Voice your concerns to the venue owner. Be sure you articulate them better then you did here.

Hehe, sorry normally im better at writing...

Just, its 1:30am and im a bit outraged... sorry...

I changed some text hope it makes more sense and is not as confusing anymore!

If a store is not too large it is ok if the TO plays (IMO). But they should hand down there focus tokens if they make top 4 (they get a set for TOing).

I think it is okay if say the TO plays the Byes as that should not effect the tournament. If the TO is doing things properly then they should already write it down as a win for that participant and do all the strength of schedules calculations even if the TO ends up winning against the bye. Example if only 3 players show up then sure let the TO play against the odd one out then that way the tournament results will be between the three players and the TO can still facilitate the tournament. Besides all facilitators should know that the prizes kits in the tournament are for participants and not for facilitators to keep or sell. The facilitators should only use the advertisement aids (such as tournament date announcement posters) and the rest should go to the players. If there still happen to be any extras then pass it down to league prizes or other tournament rewards.

If there's a secondary (and possible tertiary) TO named to make calls in games the TO is involved in I see no issue with the TO participating in the tourney. That said the OP's TO clearly behaved in an unprofessional and arguably underhanded fashion.

You realize it's possible for a TO to be a paid entrant into the event correct?

Going from what was said, I think it's worth reporting to the store owner, at least.

Yes, a TO can pay to also take part in a tournament. But the TO shouldn't be giving themself favorable match-ups, manipulating the brackets to play against "soft targets" they chose when looking over lists, etc, etc. And they also shouldn't be making other people play with official cards while allowing themself to proxy (which was the impression I got from the post, I think?).

I dunno. If it was as bad as you made it sound, it might be worth calming down, sleeping on it, then writing things down neatly and coherently, to politely present to the store management where ever the tournament was held (the ones who officially talked with FFG over it). Your call. You were there and we weren't.

Going from what was said, I think it's worth reporting to the store owner, at least.

Yes, a TO can pay to also take part in a tournament. But the TO shouldn't be giving themself favorable match-ups, manipulating the brackets to play against "soft targets" they chose when looking over lists, etc, etc. And they also shouldn't be making other people play with official cards while allowing themself to proxy (which was the impression I got from the post, I think?).

I dunno. If it was as bad as you made it sound, it might be worth calming down, sleeping on it, then writing things down neatly and coherently, to politely present to the store management where ever the tournament was held (the ones who officially talked with FFG over it). Your call. You were there and we weren't.

For a store championship, they shouldn't be allowing ANYONE to use proxy cards. end of story.

There is a specific set of rules governing matchups, which don't give him any say in who plays who after the first round. If there is a situation where he has a choice, then there should be another set of unbiased tie breakers to break the pairings. (where 2 players are tied on tournament points, and tied on MoV, and tied on SoS, my store uses order of registration as the next tie break for determining pairings)

There litterally is never any choice when it comes to pairings with the exception of ensuring that players that traveled together don't play in the first round.

From your description, the TO definitely didn't behave properly. I would report the issue to the Store. If they don't take it seriously (and only then), I'd report it to FFG.

TO's should be able to participate in Championships. It's a very important part of the whole process. If I couldn't play in my own tournaments I probably wouldn't do a lot of them as it's a lot to aks from a TO to sit around a whole Sunday to just entertain a couple of players without getting any pay. I think overall there would be a lot less tournaments if TOs weren't allowed to play. What I'm doing though is I designate another player to rule any issues that should arise at my own table. He's a friend of mine, but I know he would do a fair ruling without favoring me. So far there has never been an issue about this among the other players.

For a store championship, they shouldn't be allowing ANYONE to use proxy cards. end of story.

Yes and no. One of our local players got all of his cards stolen. I know that he has spend around 2000$ on X-Wing miniatures in our store. So I would have made an exception for him and let him use proxies (or rather just have the printed out squad list) if we couldn't get the needed cards together. Luckily this has never been a problem as he got a lot of replacement cards himself.

However, the TO should give a good example and should definitely NOT use proxies himself.

Yes the current rules of conduct for TOs allow for all this to happen. Basically the TO can do whatever the hell pleases to him. They can allow for proxy cards on one player and forbid them to another if they like to, etc.

It's basically because of the supreme power FFG grants TOs in their tournament rules, where in a lot if cases it's simply the TO that can freely decide about anything, that they can behave like cavemen and get away with it. A huge majority of TOs will of course not abuse this power, but some can't handle it.

I think that TOs should be allowed to attend their own tournament, but FFG should give them a strict code of conduct, and not only concerning participating intheir own tournament but a set of general rules where they write down which rules they have to enforce and where they can be liberal much more precisely than it is the case in the current tournament rules.

A good system could be to create a player or TO ID like in many other games, where you can pass a kind of exam to become a judge for said game. Now if a lot of complaints are filed against a TO, he could lose his status, and players that show bad sportsmanship could also not hide in an anonymous mass anymore, and get banned or suspended from official tournaments for example.

Okay this should not become kind of a witch hunt in the end, but other games show that this system can work pretty well!

This would also avoid many hard feelings towards TOs if they take a critical decision because they simply are bound to the rules themselves. It can't be attributed to a personal decision. It could also allow them to participate without being suspected of manipulation, like here, and lead to persons that organize tournaments in order to behave like this to stay away from being a TO in the first place.

You realize it's possible for a TO to be a paid entrant into the event correct?

Yes and it is completely possible for someone to make a claim of conflict of interests with such occurrences. Also a TO doesn't need to play a game in order to say "cheat" in a tournament.

I also know that this is really a issue with the store or organization that facilitated the tournament and not one that FFG is responsible for, nor is it FFG's responsibility for any other locally facilitated tournaments and the conduct of the TOs that manage those.

I'm just suggesting to anyone else who may be interested as a TO it is better to be safe and beyond such accusations. Being both the facilitator and the eligible recipient of awards does leave you exposed to such criticism. As I said in my first post I am not siding with the OP. The TO may have legitimately placed 4th in that tournament. However with the case presented there really is no way of saying that such chicanery was not possible when clearly it is very possible to happen given the known circumstances. People with authority must execute it responsibly, even if it is something trivial as a table top miniatures game.

You say that FFG is not responsible, and i agree to sone extent, but in semi official tournaments like store championships if the tournament rules were clearer, if the TO was bound to a more restrictive code of conduct and if FFG would offer an official Judge exam like in other games, there would be hardly any such problems as described by the OP

I was at this event, and there's even more questionable behavior from what I saw.

• At the beginning, the TO didn't even want us to turn in list sheets. "As long as we'd shown him our lists". We insisted and he said fine.
• At the start of the event, the store owner announced there would be 4 rounds and a cut to top 4. After the first round ended, (where the TO picked his oppoenent and won) the TO announced we'd only be playing 3 rounds, making it harder for those that lost the first round to catch up.
• There were no score sheets of any kind, and people were asked to just report their scores to the TO, who then "did some magic" behind a the screen to enter scores and pick matchups.
• At the end of the third round all games were finished except for the TO and the #1 seed's game. I went to take a look at the standings and I was in 3rd with a 100+ point lead on the TO. The game ended and the TO lost by a 4 point MoV, which would give him 96 points. And yet somehow after that game ended he jumped to 4th and I dropped to 5th (the winner of that game also jumped me). I should have been in 4th but had no way to prove it since there were no score sheets.
• When the top 4 started, the TO saw that he was 4th and the hardest list was 1st. So instead of doing 4v1 and 2v3 like the rules CLEARLY state, he manipulated the matchups YET AGAIN to try and make an easier matchup for himself.

I attend these events because they're fun and I like playing with good people, but I also like to compete. I left this event feeling pretty disgusted and I feel like I was cheated out of my chance to compete for a store championship.

You say that FFG is not responsible, and i agree to sone extent, but in semi official tournaments like store championships if the tournament rules were clearer, if the TO was bound to a more restrictive code of conduct and if FFG would offer an official Judge exam like in other games, there would be hardly any such problems as described by the OP

actually FFG store championships do have a pretty clear set of rules and expected conduct for the TO.

Four things:

• His comment about "Your list won't win" might be out of context. I'd have to have heard the whole discussion firsthand to judge. For all we know the two guys were buddies and were playing around. Or, perhaps the guy in question had some ridiculous build that he didn't expect to win and was perfectly OK with that, like 3 HWKs, for a gag. Too hard to pass judgement when only hearing a part of it.
• The TO playing in the tournament is ok with me. Granted it is not ideal, but I fly casual so I don't mind these things. Granted you do need an alternate to make judgement calls for the TO's games, and in this case, the fact that the alternate left early - then you clearly have a technical problem. Granted these issues CAN be resolved in a casual manner (Asking for consesus for people around you, or even rolling to resolve a dispute)... however you HAVE to keep in mind that people will travel long distances to reach a store championship, and you cannot assume that they will be quite so "Casual" when their entire weekend could be on the line. There should have been a backup TO for the entire tournament in this case.
• The TO with a WIN, getting paired up against someone who LOST - well that is possible, but it also sounds fishy. It all depends on how many players were there, and how many wins. If there were an odd number of 1st round wins, then one person would HAVE to get paired up with a loss - but I'll agree it certainly doesn't look good for the TO to do that.
• Proxy Cards are an absolute NO-NO for tournaments. He should have been disqualified IMO. All the other things I can KIND-OF understand - but this one is an absolute dealbreaker for me. Are you SURE they were proxy cards? I saw one guy at a store championship yesterday who had the new promo "Push the Limit" which at first glance looks like some proxy card, but I suppose it's from the spring tournament kit so it's legal.

Summary : This TO shouldn't have been able to compete in the tournament. If he wanted to play the BYE in a casual game that'd be just fine.

All of the concerns about this tournament should be written down and discussed with the store owner. If they will not do something to change this behavior, as in never let the TO run events for them ever again, then FFG should be contacted with a complete list of the TO's rule breaking/bending/exploiting. I would try to get as many people as possible who were there to add further information & possibly sign the written concerns before scanning and including in the email to FFG.

Most store owners would rather kick out a single cheater than lose multiple customers, so hopefully the store owner can get this problem fixed.

store championship and he had proxies... just no... store OP maybe..... casual play shure...

TO competing in a store championship .. NO!!

The TO should remain completely impartial. Sadly, to ensure this sad tale of woe isn't repeated .. can only be achieved if TO is a non-player.

TO competing in a store championship .. NO!!

The TO should remain completely impartial. Sadly, to ensure this sad tale of woe isn't repeated .. can only be achieved if TO is a non-player.

You are making the incorrect assumption that not participating removes any vested interest in the outcome. People due have friends, typically speaking.

I actually agree that I think X-Wing has gotten to a point that TOs shouldn't be able to play and run even an SC. But it has nothing to do with impartiality. It's simply that the SCs are typically speaking large enough to demand the amount of attention that requires a dedicated TO. 90% of these event horror stories that keep cropping up all share a common strain of no TO getting involved. Moreover complaints about the imbalances created by the short end of the possible round timer could be alleviated if there were a dedicated TO moving the event along, as opposed to also playing.

Impartiality is not a reason to need a dedicated TO, as having a dedicated TO in no way ensures they are impartial.

TO competing in a store championship .. NO!!

The TO should remain completely impartial. Sadly, to ensure this sad tale of woe isn't repeated .. can only be achieved if TO is a non-player.

I'm in agreement. Even with a backup TO, there is too much room for shenanigans.